wildflower, it appears you are having serious mite problems and need to treat this?? Certain Mites can do this type of damage and we found that either you need to remove this area or the only treatment we have found it hot water on this mite.
Please read ABADS site on viruses and insect damage.

Thank you KHT. I have searched the site you mentioned, and also the rest of the net but wasn't able to find a similar picture of what I'm seeing. Glad to know it's not a virus! Will try the hot water and also the Cornell Formula since I've had good luck with that in the past on other plants with pests. Hopefully these will show some improvement very soon because I'm real close to trashing them.

Ok, I have this also. The cause ???? I do believe it is caused by a previous mite problem and defoliation that left open craters on the stems for water, bacteria and fungus to accumulate. I have a theory that a plant once infected with mites will never fully recover on the same wood. I believe the toxins they inject into the plant to break down cellular material remains for long periods. I started some fresh young plants in a lousy location 3 months ago and have sprayed them with a polymer and they are now as big as 9 month old plants and are real bushy. These have never been bitten by a mite yet>>>>.

Anyway that my take on it. I have trimmed mine off and sealed the cut with pruning coat. It will spread if not cut off. ( real slow) I have had best luck trimming 2-3 inches past the area or more. All of my plant will get a real tight haircut when cold weather arrives. Next year I can start fresh without mites. Hopefully finger and toes crosses. LOL. I HATE MITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

Thank you Jim. I am thinking now that I may cut these to almost ground level, let them start over and see what happens. I can use the pruning seal on them. When you say you used a polymer on them, what exactly are you using?

When I was at ABADS forums some years ago I remember Monika talking about a certain mite that was hard to get rid of and she talked about using the hottest tap water to get rid of them. I'm remembering that you have to do this several times. That very next year I got a couple brugs that did this and started using my steam cleaner on ours. Ms V and I had some conversation on not burning the brugs but staying a way a distance and do this. It worked great!
If my memory serves me too that these mites couldn't do the cooler weather also.
Wishing you the best of luck.

Jim: More and more that polymer method that you've tried sounds like the way to go, not only to prevent mites, but also, as in my case, wilting. I've been searching my local nurserys for the ones you've mentioned in other threads, but to no avail. Do you have a particular online vender you can recommend? Really appreciate your experiments and reports of the same! Gloria

Ok, I went and did a little investigating on some that had that look. It appears that they do not rot but the inside of the stem get completely dried out with a fungus like hairs visible. I had one go into like a summer shock or so I thought about 3 months ago. I figured it went dormant. The stems were still green and hollow inside. I was shocked. I guess it is time to chop real good, and remove cut area into plastic bags for disposal or burning. I have read somewhere of mites that go internal into the plant. I am not quite sure what it is at this point. It is not much of a problem here so I will cut it out on any and all plants. I will preserve some tissue for a cold winter day and run it under the microscope.

Gloria, I will find the link to the manufacture of Anti-Stress and post below.Many people just bought direct. Give them a call.

http://www.antistress.com/MSDS/MSDSAS.html

http://www.polymerag.com/orders.htm

Jim

PS: Working on a UV inhibitor for a polymer. They use one in the Valley called Cloud Cover. Maybe we can dial it in for a specific environment.

Also the cleaner the plant the prettier the sheen from the polymer. I use it on my elephant ears and rubber trees the shine like a new shoe. LOL

I have the same exact thing. I didn't have it at all earlier in the year, but some turned up with that look later.

I took one particular poor thing with me to parent's house - it got repotted - washed - sprayed, and put into an area with a nice breeze. Hadn't seen it for 2 weeks. Just saw it yesterday - and it looks amazing. That "stick" that looked so sickly is covered in new leaves. Kind of made me sad - it's getting ready to be cut and it's roaring back from that mite whatever.

Mom thinks it's because she poured milk on the soil. Don't ask! (She saw me do that for some tomato plants - and figured because these were tomato plant family, it would be good.)

Jim - definately ordering the Anti Stress 2000. Forgot this past week - been a bear of a busy one. Definately getting that. Thank you for all your input.

Thanks, Jim. Keep up the grand work, to help all of us succeed! Gloria

I live in plant purgatory so I have to stay ahead or watch them die. I would love to shop but I know the conditions here would kill them. I refuse to air condition a plant. All I need is to see your pretty pictures.

Jim

All of this info is great! Ok, I have lots of open bottles of different things around here and I'm looking at my Ultra Fine Year-Round Pesticidal bottle now. It says " A superior horticultural spray oil for insect and mite pest management". I will try it since I already have it, if it doesn't work will order some of the Antistress. It does say it's for all different types of mites and their eggs. I get the impression that it will smother them...Oh, and Jim it also says "Can also be used as a leaf polish". I'm off to hack them back here shortly and try this.

KHT, I can see you out there steam-cleaning your brugs! I have a hand held clothes steamer...Think I will try that also! Dweeb, I did not have this earlier in the year either...In fact, my first big flush in the middle of summer (well, only flush then) was from this group.

Ok I got curious and started chopping mine. I appears that the tip is a small portion of the problem. There extends down the entire stem a small crevice in the center. There is an insect or insects all the way down inside the plant. I could not locate one yet but will scope it. I just chopped mine to see how far the crevices went. If I were trying to cure a plant I would probably try a drop or two of systemic like Ortholene (fungicide and pesticide) into the little crevice. Make the plant toxic for whatever is eating it. I might next weekend if I get a chance sacrifice a plant and dissect all the way through the roots. Maybe we need an systemic patch for the brugs. LOL I am still working on systemic but not a spray. Root gel feeding. Anyway if your is like my plants only a systemic or a direct application to a wound will work.

I do imagine it entered through one of the leaf scars or could have come from the roots. There was nothing visable to the eye except one plant had a small fly on the inside. I do not believe this was the culprit or damage would have been fast and severe. He just found a home. If you do use a systemic direct let me know what ratio. I was thinking of 3 water to 1 systemic or straight undiluted followed by a couple of drops of water until the crevice was full.

wildflower,

I am sorry that I have not gotten to respond to your post before now, but I have been trying to figure out how to post a picture or least a link to a picture in my post.

Anyway, what you have posted a picture of is: the classic signs of broad and/or cyclamen mite damage. You notice how even the very small leaves at the tip are a brownish color and the plant is no longer growing at that tip? That is what the broad/cyclamen mites will do to a brug that they have infested.

I am going to attempt to post a picture of one of my brugs that is suffering from the broad/cyclamen mite damage. The tips of my brug look almost identical to yours.

Everyone has given you excellent advise from treating with heat, the polymers and the horticultural oils.

I have been using the ultra fine oils to try to keep these critters under control. But it is a war in which they always come back. I spray with the oils at a heavier than recommended rate, it knocks them back for awhile, but they always come back.

Now, if you want to treat a cutting with oil to totally wipe them out you can. You just have to dip or spray the cutting with the oil at full strength. Since a cutting normally does not have any leaves on it you don't have to worry about the oil damaging the leaves. And with the oil undiluted it will kill the mites and all their stages of development. But this is not an option when trying to treat a full grown plant.

There are products out there to treat these mites like Forbid, Avid, etc., but they are very expensive and the mites will and are developing a resistance to these products.

That is why I am so excited about the polymer products that Jim has discovered will work on mites. I will be getting a gallon of Anti-Stress 2000 to spray on my brugs and all other plants that will be coming in the house for the winter.

These mites are not the same as spider mites that make a webbing. They are a different family of mites, they are in the tarsonemidae or tarsonemid family.

There are also some predatory mites that will help control the tarsonemid mites and spider mites too.

Well, I am going to try to include or link to my picture.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thanks Dave, It kept me from chopping up some plants. I could not find any mites on a quick pass of the microscope. I was looking inside also. I still believe their toxins continue after they are killed to take any vigor the effected area has. I did a little reading on them. They should be an easy target for a polymer as they are smaller than the spotted mite I was having problems with. It is strange how the entire length of a 2' branch with the bent over symptom of cyclamen mites had developed a fissure all the way down. I had thought this was heat stress when I 1st started with polymers.

A question then an infested area does it recover or should it be removed. I was not tracking mine and figured they would when the temps came down. Mine are all sprayed with the polymer and show no visible sign of mites. I do see a renewed vigor after I spray so maybe the cyclamen mites are able to penetrate the polymer after a month????? 1/100" as an adult can squeeze through some tiny cracks as the polymer expands and is degraded by ultraviolet light.

I took it to the limit until I saw mites. I did notice it kept other insect from feeding for 1 month. Label is 2 for heat stress or cold. I believe a month is a good place to keep it at when the temps go over 80+.

Thanks again,

Jim

Jim,

You are correct that the toxins they produce continues to affect the area after they are killed. Do a Wikipedia search on the tarsonemidae mites, it talks about how the growth is affected by their toxins.

I don't know if that the mites had anything to do with the fissure developing. If it was near the top, then it is possible that the weight of the blooms could have caused a small crack to develop and it continued on from that. Most of the time when I had a fissure develop, it was on a rapidly growing shoot. The stem just split from the rapid uptake of water.

And, the infested areas can and will recover from the damage AFTER they are killed. Because these mites go for the very tip growth and can damage the growing tip, for example the pictures of wildflower and mine, it sets the plant back until new leaf buds develop. That is one of the reasons I hate these mites so much.

My growing season is limited as compared to those of you who are further south, and they damage the growing point in such a way that the plant may not recover in time to produce blooms before the season is up.

Another symptom of tarsonmid mite damage that you may notice is; russeting on the stems, calyx and seed pods of brugs, begonias, peppers, etc.

This picture shows how the growing tip will recover after the mites are brought under control.

Could someone please instruct me on how to have the photo show in the post, instead of just a link to the image? Appreciate it!! LOL!!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Ok, the fissure was within the stem. The anti stress link to the Houston site is new to me. It seems to mirror our information. I saw a new site and it looked consumer friendly so I posted it for Gloria. When Gloria said it says it can be used as a plant polish. I went and looked.

To confound sucking insects or other pests: Dilute @ 50:1. Apply every 30-45 days. Because the leaf and fruit surfaces are covered by the membrane, insects and pests may not "recognise"(sp) it as food. Fungi and mildew are also inhibited because spores will not grow on the membrane, nor can fungi already on the plant easily release their spores or expand.

To reduce the use of other chemicals

We have been marketed. The only one site available when I was doing research was the Manufactures site. It has gone from agricultural to ornamental overnight. That is great as long as it does not get bought up and moth balled by a big chemical manufacture. I know I have spent several hundred dollars less in commercial chemicals in the last 3 months. I was ready to buy avid. OMG $$$$$

David in Photobucket click the little boxes that you want next to the pictures then scroll to the bottom of the page and click (generate html and img code) this will take you to a new page

Generated HTML, Ebay and IMG Code
HTML clickable thumbnails for Ebay, Livejournal, MySpace, etc.

copy the code in the box under this header and paste to your post. It will make click able thumbnails of every picture selected when you preview the post. Nice way to do a bunch and real easy.

Jim

Jim,

The Houston, TX website is not a new one. I think they are just a distributor for Polymer Ag., Inc.

Anyway, EVERYONE please don't order from this site. WHY? The same products are a lot cheaper from the company that actually developed the product, located in Fresno, CA.

A gallon concentrate of Stress Guard 2000 from the Houston, TX company is $49.99 vs $39.95 from the main company in Fresno, CA.

The day that I spoke to the gentleman that developed the product (Stress Guard 2000) he gave me their mailing address.

Here it is.

Polymer Ag., Inc.
P.O. Box 9665
Fresno, CA 93793

Also, he qouted me a shipping cost of $10.49, that is from CA 93793 to WV 24868. Not a bad price at all. And on the Houston site there is a $2.00 charge for orders less than case amounts.

Just in time for my ordering, David. Thanks. I'm hoping the shipping might even be a little less for us here in CA. Thanks to both you and Jim for all your work, info, and advice. Gloria

David, if you need help with the pics, shoot me an e-mail and I will try to help...Basically you're just copying and pasting the HTML code.

This is all really interesting and so I am wondering this now...KHT mentioned that these mites could not survive the cold. Most of my brugs are ingrounds so possibly winter could take care of the problem? It's not my nature to just leave things alone so I'll be trying the Ultrafine spray after severly cutting back anyway. Hopefully the combination of both will work!

I was going to order some myself the local nursery is getting pretty expensive. I gave mine their 2nd spraying after our big weekend rain. I had fertilized also, wow I did not know they could turn that green. Wildflower I would not risk mites surviving over winter.

I just had them unblock garden web at my new job. LOL

Hi all,

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in also. I had this exact same thing happen to not one or two plants but about 2 dozen plants. Same exact thing, all the growing tips lost all leaves, all the leaves except for the biggest most mature leaves curled up and looking terrible. I just couldnt get it under control no matter what I did. All the plants were in approx a 16'x16' area. What I have noticed is that if the affected plant had already formed a "Y" and gotten the mite damage, when the new leaves regenerated they would no longer have the difference in the leaves, ie: one side of the leaf being longer/shorter than the other indicating that a bloom is forthcoming. Our growing season is closing down rather rapidly and most of my plants have recovered or are recovering. Apparently, the plants that had "y" and were affected looks like they will have to grow more and develope a new "Y" before anymore blooms will come. I am not going to cut these plants back to bring in, but will bring them inside whole, and store in the basement. Next spring should tell the tale on just how much this infestation has really done to the plants.

Food for thought,

Roger
South of Chicago