Santa Barbara Daisy / erigeron karvinskianus...

I second Santa Barbara Daisies. Alstroemeria blooms and blooms. You can get compact varieties now. I like golden sage too, and feverfew.
Renee

I want to warn you that I have three Meyer lemons, and they don't easily tolerate anything underneath their extremely wide-reaching branches. Even grafted as trees, they tend to be much wider than tall - my 8-yr old front yard Meyer is still less than 5' tall but is easily 7' across. An ungrafted Meyer in its natural bush form that is 15 yrs old is 7' tall and 10' across.

Because their branches criss-cross so heavily, they shade the ground underneath. And they don't like competition in their root area; for best growth and fruit you'll need to fertilize regularly.

One of my favorite plants around roses are erysimums, although never 'Bowles Mauve' which is the most popular but way too large and bristle-y. The yellow, orange, and variegated erysimums are mini-shrubs, well behaved, floriferous, and love the same conditions as roses. I made the mistake of planting deciduous ceratostigma in one part of the bed; it's impossible to get rid of!

The smaller hybrid pelargoniums also do reasonably well with roses, and some offer beautiful variegated leaves which contrast nicely with rose foliage and salvias.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I have Santa Barbara Daisies elsewhere, and they can get pretty big but if I wasn't such a lazy pruner I could keep them smaller. I like them a lot and they bloom constantly!

jkom: The Meyer lemon is a dwarf, labeled "improved". I understand about not planting anything beneath citrus. I hope this one won't spread that much, but if it does (and until then) could I plant annuals up to the drip line as the tree grows?

I had a horrible experience with gaura - it was a very aggressive re-seeder in zone 22.

The Improved Meyer is naturally a bush. Most are purchased as grafts onto dwarf rootstock. It will grow wider much faster than it will grow tall. Make sure it grows straight; stake it if you have to, because the trunk takes several years to thicken enough to properly support the weight of the branches.

I'll try to take a photo of the trees concentrating on the base and drip lines so you can get a better idea. I can tell you that despite heavy fertilizing, I've gotten nothing to grow underneath the Meyers except one spindly heuchera that survives but hasn't grown any bigger in eight years, a Santa Barbara daisy that carefully avoids growing inside the drip line....and weeds. Oxalis pes-caprae and Bermuda grass do just fine, of course.

jkom51: We may move the Meyer into a pot. We've had a dwarf Nagami Kumquat in a large pot for years and it is a good producer (it needs to be re-potted with new soil, but that's another story). I don't want to give up precious real estate in a border for a single citrus bush -- I think it will look out of place. I hope Hubby will agree to move it soon.

Nancy: I had the variegated type and I don't recall a single seedling, but it did succumb to a VERY WET winter a few years ago. I may try again but "very aggressive" sorta scares me off.....

I had the variegated type

Mine was not variegated, just the species gaura lindheimeri with white flowers. Perhaps the cultivars are less aggressive. As much as I like the look of 'Siskiyou Pink', I'm still too much influenced by my previous experience to risk it.

Nancy: I understand. About 10 years ago I planted some bulbs of the sweet little Ipheion. I remember reading they are "easy" to grow in "any type of soil, in sun or shade". They multiplied like rabbits and spread EVERYWHERE, coming up at the base of other plants. I spent an afternoon digging out HUNDREDS of the tiny bulbs in an area about 1 square foot where I had planted just 3-5 bulbs there a few years before. Scary! I speak in past-tense because we had our front yard re-landscaped early last year and I haven't seen any since.

For the lower border, plants such as the Princess Series of Alstroemeria are nice dwarf cushion forms. Armeria maritima would also work well here, or Campanula porschkaryana. Tulbaghia violacea 'Silver Lace' also combines well with roses. Behind and inbetween the roses, perhaps more Salvia's such as nearly everblooming Salvia chiapensis, S. 'Wendy's Wish', S. 'Mystic Spires' or something taller yet dramatic such as Neomarica caerulea. Aeonium 'Swartzkop' could also be a nice backdrop to the roses with its deep almost black foliage rosettes, and can more easily fit into tight spaces than the larger/wider growing Salvia's. Iresine herbstii is another brilliantly foliaged herbaceous plant that comes in either deep red or yellow and green variegated foliage, and would be a nice foil for the roses.

Putting the Meyer in a pot is a good idea, but it needs to be a very BIG pot. Which makes it heavy, and impossible to move around, so pros and cons there. I've never been impressed with the yield from a potted Meyer; always seems like a lot of effort for a few dozen lemons when an in-ground plant can give 30-70+ lbs. a season. For a few dozen lemons, you could buy Meyers more easily and use scarce real estate for something else.

Gaura is very aggressive for me too, but worse are the swarms of aphids. I'm not certain they'd jump from gaura to rose, but they might.

These are 2 pictures I took today of the space between the Meyer Lemon and Playboy rose (both in front of the wall; the rose has a mix of orange and yellow blooms). The lemon was just planted last month; the rose was transplanted last year and is just starting to take off.

The lemon is the small plant to the left of the 2 round stepping stones. The bed at that spot is about 5 feet deep. This spot is undergoing some renovation and the plants to the right of it WILL be removed. I plan to keep the birdbath where it is, and add a small grouping of plants beneath it.

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Like they say, a photo is worth a thousand words. That Meyer would take up the entire planting space between the stones and your rose, if it were centered. It is WAY too close to the stones, you need a minimum 3-4' if you're going to leave it in the ground.

Here's what I mean about being wider than tall. This Meyer is in very optimal conditions. It was planted in a raised circular bed in late 2002, and this photo is from Jan 2009. The bed is 8' across, which leaves 6' of dirt after subtracting the width of the concrete blocks. This Meyer was about 1' taller than your plant as shown.

The photo shows, edge to edge, the width of a 7-yr old grafted Improved Meyer. The height was just about 5' at its highest branch but the overall impression was (and remains) one of width, not vertical height. As of 2011 the Meyer now extends slightly beyond the outer edge of the blocks and is finally beginning to grow upwards a bit more.

Notice the 'dead zone' - even the Santa Barbara daisy stays away from the dripline, although all the fertilizer and water go no more than 8" away from the trunk.
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On the Citrus forum we've had some spirited discussions in the past about the origins, growing habit, and seed viability of the Meyer vs Improved Meyer. There seems to be a distinct difference between coasts and it is entirely possible that there are two similar varieties being sold as IMs.

In my experience the IM sold here is a bush. It is never a tree shape, and cannot be mistaken for one. My grown-from-seed Meyer is in a rather inaccessible place and I have no good photo of it in its shrubby entirety - it's too large and ungainly, smashed into a dead-end back walkway.

However, here's a photo of my other grafted IM. Again, much much wider than tall. This is in shadier conditions than the one above; same size but was planted 1 yr later, also in a raised bed. When I stand next to it it is slightly less than 5' tall but at least 6' across:
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In contrast, here is a classic dwarf citrus - Bearss Lime. It is the **exact same age** - same size container, same starting height - as the Meyer in photo #1 in this post. Quite a difference, isn't it? Admittedly this plant has been moved twice, so it's probably 2' shorter than it should be. But the form is lovely, and what people expect from a 'tree'. The IM, even grafted, will NEVER look like this. It is simply too 'shrubby', with all those multiple criss-crossing branches. It's trying to be an 8'x8' solid shape, not a graceful, layered tree.
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Thank you for your very helpful photos. The stones were already there (from a previous group of plants) and I intend to remove them.

Based on your input and photos, we are now planning to move the Meyer to the right within the next couple of weeks. This photo gives a better perspective of the whole area - the plants and birdbath "removed" with a little help from Picasa. The yellow "X" represents the new spot which will allow 4' in each direction.

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Here's what Monterey Bay Nursery has to say about 'Improved Meyer Lemon':

... a.k.a 'Improved Meyer,' but the only thing they did to improve it was to remove the Tristeza virus. This extremely popular, probable sweet orange-lemon hybrid was found growing near Beijing, which is a very cold area of China. For all the importance and mystery of this clone it is interesting no one has yet bothered with any genetic analysis to determine its true origins. It is always a compact, wide spreading plant, usually to no more than 4-5' tall by 8-10' wide at full, unpruned maturity. It is highly ornamental because of the heavy production of dark golden yellow fruit. Its compact habit, relatively small size, and heavy everbearing nature combine to make it a fine, fine container specimen, even in small containers. The flavor is mostly lemon, with orange-like components, it is sweet enough to eat by itself when grown in hotter inland locations, and along the coast if left to hang long enough, and it is craved by many. One of its strongest attributes is its copious production of juice. Another is that the fruit will hold up to a year in cool climates and is still good and usable at that age. Some find it not lemon enough to be a "true lemon" (which of course you know doesn't exist) and have no use for it. You are either in one camp or the other, if you have the climate to choose which lemon you grow. For those in colder climates though it represents one of the only options, since it will take temperatures to near 20F and still survive, where the other lemons are dead toast. It is a spectacular bearer, enough to be a first rate ornamental for the fruit display alone. In the Central Valley or other very hot-summer areas the fruit mature to almost orange. This variety has famously showy and fragrant flowers. rev 2/2010

Jenn, that looks like a perfect spot!

That's a slightly different history than I've seen from several publications about the Meyer/Improved Meyer. From NPR's Julie O'Hara:

"....After landing on American shores, Meyer lemons were cultivated in the citrus-growing regions of California, Florida and Texas. A favorite backyard tree enjoyed by locals, Meyers never made a splashy national debut. Their thin, delicate skin and high juice content made them too fragile to distribute commercially.

In the 1960s, the majority of Meyer lemon trees in California were destroyed by a virus they carried, which threatened the entire citrus industry. Fortunately, one stock was deemed free and clear of disease and became the source for a newly developed "Improved Meyer Lemon" tree."

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I think all our confusion stems from no one (from any source I've ever seen) actually identified what the disease-free stock looked like, whether shrub or tree form.

I mention this because where I live, there are a lot of old original Meyer lemon trees left in backyards. Residential trees were left alone; only commercial stock was destroyed. Those Meyers look VERY different from what you buy nowadays. Before I started gardening I was dependent upon a friend in Contra Costa County to bring me Meyers. Hers came from an actual tree over 25' feet tall, the branches didn't cross so heavily, and the fruit was football-shaped and the same size as a grocery store (Eureka or Lisbon) lemon, but had the mild acidity and orange-tinted flesh we're all so familiar with.

By contrast, my two grafted IMs throw round tennis-ball shaped Meyers at least one-third the time, and the IM that grew from seed is extremely irregular in shape and size.

But in any shape, they're wonderful! Just feed yours well, and it will happily supply you with lots of fragrant Meyers. BTW, even Meyers don't mature until they're about 8 yrs old, and the fruit will continue to get sweeter over time. After about 7-10 yrs (most Meyers are bought when they're between two and three years old) in the ground, it should start supplying you with some lemons in the off-season, although heaviest crop is always winter-spring.

Thank you for sharing additional history. What do you feed yours, and what type soil do you have? Our soil is clay, alkaline. We have a mature Tangerine, about 40 years old, that is loaded with fruit year-round; there are plants growing at the drip line, but none growing beneath it.

We're planning to move the Meyer next weekend and I'll find another place for the stones and other plants. Also - this time, we'll plant it higher (didn't do that when it was planted last month). It has some blooms but the foliage is a little yellow. I gave it some fish fertilizer last week, and Hubby tossed in some citrus fertilizer when he planted it last month. Should we avoid adding new fertilizer when we move it?

I find Meyers are very hungry because they fruit so young, unlike most citrus. If you put citrus fertilizer in the hole when you planted it, I'd wait until the new leaves come out before judging what else it might need.

The color will tell you how hungry it is. Pale growth means it's hungry. Leaves should come out with a reddish tinge and turn dark green quickly if the plant is happy. I feed citrus fertilizer once a month and liquid iron at least 3x yr (roses also LOVE liquid iron). I didn't find the granular iron to be as effective. Maybe twice a year I dissolve liquid fish/kelp fertilizer in a bucketful of water and throw it over each Meyer.

If you examine the two Meyer photos in my May 16th/12:18p post, the new growth in the top photo is definitely paler and even as leaves matured a few weeks later they didn't darken to that richer green you see in the second photo. During the heaviest harvest, Meyers are really hungry so I always make sure to do a good rich iron/fish fertilizer leaf drenching about 2/3 way through the winter harvest, which is usually around mid- to late March.

BTW, watering should be on a regular schedule for best fruit set - deep soaking, let the soil dry out in the top 2" before watering again. Mulching is always good.

On the Citrus forum most people are growing Meyers in pots as they don't live in areas where the plants can live outdoors. One person who is very successful at growing them indoors adds a little bit of vinegar to the water because he lives in an area where like yours, the water is heavily alkaline. Citrus prefer a slightly acidic diet.

As they mature, it's natural for some leaves to yellow and die when the harvest is heaviest, but it shouldn't be more than a modest handful on a mature plant.