Hi Jeri, Well there are many variables that could influence our results. Such as what is your soil ph in comparison to mine and is your water more or less acid than mine. I know even in my city the soil varies quite a lot (as the Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Gardens even mentions their differing soils on their website, and the RSABG is fairly close to me). The combination of soil and water differences may produce varying results with plants fed alfalfa. Also the origin of the alfalfa in your tea (where was *it* grown) as well as how strong the tea is. Are there components to your soil that would mitigate the ph raising effects of alfalfa? Just things to ponder. Also the individual roses that we each grow and their tolerances to ph ranges. I'd be curious how Reine des Violettes in particular did for you. Here is my Reine des Violettes (photo taken July 19, 2011), purchased from Greenmantle in February 2011 and planted in the ground right away (note alfalfa pellets on ground in background under other plants): From Reine des Violettes In fact I bought 3 plants at the same time from Greenmantle--Reine des Violettes (not fed alfalfa), Tipsy Imperial Concubine (given a very small amount of alfalfa), Duchesse de Rohan (given a moderate amount of alfalfa). All planted on the same day, adjacent each other, mulched with shredded redwood bark, watered on the same days by hand, same hose. All were growing nicely looked about equally green. Then I fed the alfalfa. One shut down growing and turned the same sickly color as Jenny Duval. That was Duchesse de Rohan. I haven't removed the alfalfa and her color has not improved. Then I have a species rose of which I have three, R. alabukensis. You might know this rose, Kim. I put one (15 gallon size) in the ground using Edna's Best and mulched with the redwood bark. Foliage a lovely dark green. I put one in a 15 gallon pot with only Edna's Best and mulched with the redwood bark. Number 3 I put in a 15 gallon pot in plain garden soil, and mulched with the redwood bark. Then I fed the plant in the ground with alfalfa pellets, the others I fed nothing. Continued watering all 3 plants on the same day, by hand with a hose. Plant in ground quickly became chlorotic. The other 2 not a trace, both still dark green leaves. I removed the alfalfa from around the plant in the ground. It's leaves are back to being dark green. Another experiment was an accidental one with an old butterfly bush. It was way too big, and I needed the space for all the incoming roses this year. So I chopped it way, way back, hacked out some roots. Added roses + bark mulch. No problem. Butterfly bush starts leafing out in multiple locations (hey, it had spread it was so happy!). Added the alfalfa. All new growth DIED. I am not saying alfalfa should never be fed to roses, but for my growing conditions, it is not advisable. It depends on the conditions in your gardens as to how well it may do for your plants. It is also worth considering the why behind the effects. Perhaps some are seeing reduced performance in roses due to this being fed. On the other hand in the right conditions of soil ph and/or water ph, feeding alfalfa may produce spectacular results. For me that would have been great as I have such easy access to it. Melissa

The only caution I would offer is ... what rootstock are these roses on? In the U.S., 'Dr. Huey' is most-common, and it tolerates SoCal soils and water well. In some places, 'Fortuniana' is used -- and it, too, is great in SoCal soils. But at least some Canadian growers use Multiflora rootstock. That rootstock does NOT tolerate alkaline conditions very well. If you live in an area where there are, or have been walnut orchards, and/or Oak Trees, your soil may be in the slightly- acidic range. In some parts of SoCal, though, the soils and water are in the alkaline range. I had recurrent chlorosis problems here, with roses growing on multiflora rootstock. I think that, now, I have only one rose remaining on Multiflora. Thank God. Jeri

Have you any familiarity with the Kheulavator? Agri Supply carries them. It takes some doing to get a variety of widths on raised beds and so I really can't recommend one. However, I've dealt with one for about 10 years now. I have a Kubota L4400 with a Lands Pride rototiller. After I rototill the garden I use the k'vator to hill the row/bed. I then rake it by hand to level it and establish the width and height. Usually my beds are about 10-14" above grade. The width can be anywheres from 8" to 36" wide. Wider than that isn't really practical and it's actually easier to just use the rototiller. I recently decided to design and build a bed shaper to fit on the tiller. I typically will ask the community at 'tractorbynet.com' to assist me with the design, under the appropriate forum(s). You can't cross-list so I try to ask specific design questions rather than one general question. I've been doing raised beds with a drip irrigation line arrangement for a long time. If you'd like to share info on them we could start another thread here or share on tractorbynet. I need to start taking pictures of the garden and progress anyway. I'm not the best a) housecleaner or b) photographer. I get a little shy of taking pictures of my garden as there is always some level of chaos i.e., tools scattered around along with drip fittings, pvc, implements, dying vegetation etc. Inhibits me from shooting pics. However I am sort of computer literate and can handle the upload side of stuff usually. This year I decided to put into use my jang jp3 seeder. I just did leeks and bulb/bunching onions. CAn't comment on singulation or skips as they're just starting to germinate after 2 weeks. I have a good assortment of rollers and look to use the seeder this season in order to get familiar with it. I have had it sitting unused for the last 10 years. The reason is the raised beds aren't really accepting of a multi row hand seeder. It also was binding on the rollers to the extent that you could not push it down the row cause the driving wheels would stick! Pretty lousy for a 1k USD machine. This year I hand sanded the rollers and their receivers until enough movement was created to allow the seeder's use. Johnny's seeds has been goofing around with them. They have a good cross referenced EXCEL sheet with their suggestions for type of seed/roller correspondence. Makes roller selection better than guessing although the top of the seed hopper has indentations for seed/roller identification. If setting up a thread for discussion sounds amenable to ya let me know ok? Is there a way to PM on garden web? psient Psient

The botanic garden did test the water. I think they are more up on this topic than I am ever likely to be. We use the same water, and I am within walking distance. I know not to use this fertilizer again in my conditions. Next year, it is back to diluted fish emulsion, or nothing, as usual. And we will see how the roses look. Sorry, no place for olive trees (and I don't want the mess), and grapevines are out because I have dogs (grapes are toxic to dogs, depending on the dog as to how much). But I did plant alfalfa within the last several years to see how it would do (fields growing alfalfa frequently supplement with boron). The alfalfa grows well here with zero supplementation. The wild creatures eat it like crazy however.