I haven’t visited these forums in some time and actually rediscovered this thread doing a google search on some rare plants (go figure). Since we have a lot of trees and not a lot of resources and time to protect them, most of my losses are due to deer/rodent herbivory. Instead of dwelling on all of the plants I haven’t been able to keep alive, I’ll mention the highlights and surprises here. I went go in depth on too many so ask if you want more details and I’ll try to keep an eye on this thread and respond back when I can. I have been in Arizona since May and I’m basing the updates from this past growing season on my mother’s observations. -Strongest growing maple is Acer lobelii by far; arrived as a stick broken in half during shipping en route from Colvos Creek Nursery in Washington state and has grown at least 3 feet a year. It towers over all of the other sticks in my maple collection at about 15 feet. -Acer davidii grosseri hersii (what a taxonomic mess!) is the strongest growing snakebark and a new addition since the original post I believe. I don’t give it any “help” nutrition-wise and it has grown 2 feet each year; excellent striped bark turns crimson with the onset of cold weather and the leaves are a mix of red, orange, and purple in the autumn. From Forestfarm and while they are awesome, I have not yet keyed this plant to confirm its identity; either way, doing awesome for a snakebark in a clay-dominated alkaline soil in an exposed area. -Acer rufinerve gets no fertilization either and has some years where it sits back and grows little, and other where it takes off. Apparently this year it grew over 2’, so it now stands about 8’. Bark is excellent, although it doesn’t change to crimson like some of the other snakebarks. Can occasionally develop minor signs of nutrient deficiency but not a big deal. Leaves are amazing both texturally (coarse) and by color in the autumn, a mix of red, orange and violet. -Acer henryi looks like a Boxelder and grows like one in upstate NY. After a rough time establishing and a nasty bout of sunscald, it now grows about 2’ a year and has excellent red and violet autumn colors, with violet usually dominating. -Acer longipes is notable because I was able to get one through a winter (low -13F) with the only damage due to herbivory. Supposedly sprouted up big time this past summer. Not many experts seem to place much faith in its hardiness and it may have been below the snowline at the time of the low temp. Time will tell. -Acer mandshuricum, Acer triflorum, and Acer maximowiczianum all suffer through chlorosis. A. triflorum does the worst, A. maximowiczianum the best. A hybrid from Forestfarm between A. pseudoplatanus and A. griseum has done very well, with violet-backed leaves and red fall color. Hybrid vigor and no cold or soil issues. -Acer oliverianum is starting to pick up steam and has yet to be damaged by temps as low as -16F. Might be benefiting from the protection of a nearby hedge. Fall color is usually reddish-orange; it is deeply shaded. -Calycanthus raulstonii ‘Hartlage Wine’ is a huge success. Massive flowering in the second year and completely hardy. Grows very fast and gets leggy unless trimmed. Flowers are gorgeous and large, with virtually no scent. Numerous visitors that have seen the plants have subsequently scoured google for a dealer. The intense color has even drawn some hummingbirds. Seedless. Highly recommend. -Magnolia grandiflora ‘Bracken’s Brown Beauty’ gets defoliated by about January when the truly consistent cold temperatures begin. This about the time that the soil freezes for good as well, limiting the plant’s ability to care for the leaves no doubt. At times, it looks like a fancy houseplant with shiny green leaves growing amongst the snow. No cold-dieback although it is not yet established and grows only about 6 inches a year max so far (haven’t got an update for this past season yet). It is late to leaf out in the spring. -Have a Stewartia malacodendron that apparently did very well in a shaded and very rich sand lens in a protected area that gets partial shade. It is big enough to be above the (likely) snow line and I will be very, VERY interested in seeing if it overwinters. Perhaps more updates later (and as I receive them!)

"I certainly did not intend any negative comment about Greer Gardens." Nor did I! Agree with your comments about him, and I felt lucky to have briefly met him a few years ago. Definitely one of the grand-maitres of American Horticulture. "is that the heat and humidity of southern NJ rather severely limits the rhododendron varieties that can be grown." Well, not sure I agree. Not w/severely anyhow...though I can see why it seems that way from Maine. I would posit a nursery trying to be what Rarefind is trying to be...and survive well into the next decade...would *have* to be w/in reasonable driving distance of the Big Apple. Again, there's only so many people who are going to be willing to shell out for high-class dendrological amusements. That eliminates a lot of places from consideration. And, yes, the place isn't filled to the brim with every known fussy R. wardii hybrid, but the climate is certainly not as bad as it could be. Their soil is actually quite good for rhodies. Rarefind could never have happened outside DC, for example. To me, in 2006 when I first visited, I could not believe a rhodo garden could even look like that on the east coast. Such was the diversity of colors and plant forms. Also NB their winter climate permits them to grow, outdoors, some of the hardier camellias. To survive they need to market a broad range of plants. Showing plants outside helps that marketing effort. "Many of the micro producers, which are often one person operations, just won't be able to justitfy the expense and increased labor requirements necessary to take that step." Hhhmmmmm. This guy was a 1 person operation for a long time: www.desertnorthwest.com I admit it's maybe a little less feasible with rhododendrons, that I broadly see as more tedious to produce than most nursery commodities. I mean, a lot of shrubs, if you don't want to bother w/cuttings, you can just gather some seeds, plant them, and have saleable plants in a couple years. Not w/most rhodies, and especially because most people don't want seedlings. I just noticed a Callistemon seedling in my garden, that was already about 5" high from a dropped seed this spring. By the end of next summer it would be ready for sale. My attempt to raise rhodies from seed have been very frustrating. They are so darn slow, and the last of mine just rotted out for some reason. BTW Cold winters notwithstanding, a Callistemon is a lot harder to kill than most rhodies. That little plant apparently sailed through the very dry spell we'd had in the past 3 weeks, surviving bone dry soil in about 80% full sun. Even in shade I bet any spring sown rhodo seedling would have died w/o assistance.

Hi lycopus, I sent off 5 gathered samples from the local area to Dr. Xiao Chen. She then sent them out from her lab as a favor to get better pricing. I e-mailed her to ask her for the name of her lab but right now all I have are my notes of what she told me over the phone which she watered down to enable me to better understand what I had here. All I got out of our conversation is that it wasn't native. I thought her price was really great considering there were 5 samples but I sure do wish I would have known Cornell was doing this for free. I have sent samples of ringworm to Cornell before to be cultured but was always charged $100 a pop. I have never dealt with them for anything that wasn't animal related but free is free. They did a great job getting fungus to colonize for identification. I would feel very comfortable dealing with Cornell. Wanna have a good laugh... I have a Swift biological here that I am having difficulty using. My girlfriend tried to explain to me how to look at the phragmites under the microscope but I couldn't even get it focused. You are welcome to borrow it to play as nobody over here has the ability to use it properly and you probably do. Sad, huh? I definitely have/had muskrats here. I think the coyotes must be getting a few here and there as I don't see any of their telltale little huts. Funny, I never noticed they were missing until today. I went out early this evening while there was still light and looked at more cattails than I care to admit having looked at. I found a stand over by a neighbor that had all split segments which would be indicative of Typha angustifolia you gave me the name of. I looked at photographs on the Internet and it is distinctly double segmented. The cattails I have did not all appear to have the double segments but then I can't really tell as they are weathered and poofed out from having withstood winter winds. The problem is that they are windswept. I distinctly remember having seen the double segmented type here last fall as I recall having thought it was odd that cattails had two cattails while others had only one. I might have a mix here. Looks like I will want to know your source for broadleaf cattail to start getting some going over here in the year 2010... right after I get a blow torch and burn the narrowleaf down. As far as whether the DNR guy will get it right or not... I will send you that information via the GardenWeb mail. Relax... tee he! Easy for you to say! Every time I turn around over here somebody discovers something else. You have experience in dealing with all this crap and knowing how to prioritize. I am still struggling with trying to figure out what ickie goes first and how it goes. Just when I think my ducks are in a line- up pops another nasty. Last month it was crack willow or its hybrid. Last week it was Bittersweet Nights and gypsy moth egg sacs. This week it was narrowleaf cattail. Ickies and nasties, nasties and ickies. Below is a photograph of about 5% of our buckthorn battlefield. Those are only the tops of the buckthorn laying in the ground and the entire yard (I do mean our entire yard) is coated with buckthorn bodies. We have taken out a few hundred to date. There are many hundreds more to go. We did finally determine we were going to have to redirect our energy to the fruiting female buckthorns in order to get a chance to focus on planting the bare root trees and shrubs and all of the other plant materials that will start being delivered here by the hundreds within about 4 weeks. By the way, many plants I ordered were your suggestions. Also too, you told me to go for the buckthorn first and that is exactly what we are doing. We let it lay on the ground to dry a little and then we burn it. The garlic mustard is emerging so I bought 12 stamp licker bottles from Office Depot and I have been going after that. Larger areas of GM will go under plastic to smother and kill it so I can avoid using chemicals. The PL, the RCG, and the phragmites are being contracted out. Let somebody who knows how to deal with wetlands get those. After we get the new plant material in the ground, we'll start in on the JH and Rosa multiflora and then go back to the buckthorn again. Next year, we will repeat the process. It may not be much of a game plan but at least we are moving forward. My biggest problem is feeling so unclean and filthy dirty over here. I feel as if our house was built on top of a toxic waste dump that plant mutations are growing out of. I want it all gone yesterday and I have been slow to arrive at the conclusion this isn't going to happen. Patience has never been one of my virtues. You flow with things much better than me. I had days where I wanted to take a bulldozer to this entire place and then I remember the trillium that poked up last year, the monarda, the sedges, the hickories, the oaks, and those black cherries intermixed in this mess trying to survive and I think only a few more years... lycopus, your information is always a Godsend! You are probably the main reason I didn't have a bulldozer hauled over here as you make it all seem doable. It is.

Hello Desertgarden I remember before you going thru the same dilemma. You and Jasminerose4u or somebody kept talking about it. It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into moving. I remember back then I wasn't going to answer anymore but alas, here I am. I think moving in order to have a job must be a lot easier than just deciding where to live. I think I would move with others to Santa Barbara:) Anyhow, I have lived here for over 50 years and was born 100 miles from here and have a sister that lives in Boulder City, NV and works in Vegas. I go every year and have for many years I would not have to give her advice to move here because she would never do it. It's more like a great place to visit but wouldn't want to live there with her, even tho' every year she complains about her summers from H*ll. She's been there over 40 years. Every place has their own set of problems. Too hot, too cold, too rainy, etc. etc. etc. She freezes here and I tell her to put more clothes on. DUH!!! First of all, I would worry about you more than your roses. Roses grow almost all over the world. Look how many members around the world this forum has. Every rose we grow is just an experiment anyhow. I see you got some good answers on your rose concerns. I will try to give my answer to some of your other concerns. 1. Zone 8 is just not cold for most roses, including tea roses, but I know that Sun, and Summer heat to an extent, is something most seem to enjoy I am zone 8A. The zone map says Min 10 to 15 degrees. Rare but not unheard of. I am in the urban area so warmer than suburbs. Mom used to say this was the banana belt. I've never lost a rose to the cold, doesn't mean it couldn't happen. And if it did, just a reason to try something new. Not the end of the world. 2. Seattle receives less rain than the U.S. average.. definitely less than many states in the middle of the country but likely with more cloud cover, and I know that there is a time where the city skews towards dry and sunny. Don't move here if you can't handle the gray. We may not get a lot of rain but we can make it last month after month after month. I find it cozy but it would drive my sisters crazy. Some people move here and love it. July and August and some Septembers are usually our dry months. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php But man, it is gorgeous on a sunny day. It was 96 degrees today and broke a record from forever. Most of us do not have a/c. Back to the 70's tomorrow. 3. I recently visited the Woodlands Zoo Rose Garden ( an ARS test garden). A few roses had blackspot (Bolero was the worst), however, some had missing leaves, so I am assuming that was due to blackspot. The vast majority of roses appeared extremely healthy in this organic garden. Woodland Park Rose Garden is 3.5 miles from me. I don't worry about blackspot so much as Powdery Mildew. Hate it! Hate it! Hate it! Even the new landscaping we just had put in has it. Hey, but we don't get as many weird bugs as other places. LOL! 4. Portland - the city of roses???, also known for beautiful roses 143 miles SOUTH of Seattle. Different city, hotter, colder.....not the same city. 5. Most of the roses were modern hybrid tea roses, rugosa, floribunda with Austin's here and there. At the Woodland Park Rose Garden? It's a test garden. Or maybe they found those grow well. It gets a lot of tourists and a lot of weddings. 6. Sheilah's PNW, Oregon/Rogue Valley garden is breathtakingly beautiful, filled with healthy plants including Tea roses. Rogue and Heirloom are both in Oregon)..???? Rogue River, OR is approx 425 miles SOUTH of here. Completely different climate than Seattle. Sheila is probably near there and I think her garden looks lovely and she puts a lot of work to make it look that way. Thanks Sheila:) I love South Western Oregon and would move there if I didn't move to Santa Barbara. HA! 7. Beautiful, healthy roses could be seen in every neighborhood/area we visited. Was my visit to the PNW at the prime time and not indicative of the norm? June and July are prime for roses. I would say my roses are good, some May, mainly June and July and start to slow down August and September they are gone. Or at least not that good. That's it! Seems like a pretty short season. 8. The Rhododendrons were magnificent. Are they a problem to grow also? Rhodies are tall as a lot of houses here. I don't have any but see them everywhere in the Spring so I don't think they can be too hard to grow. Probably just need the correct soil. I would be more concerned about: gray days, traffic, home prices, Seattle freeze (with so many newcomers not as strong), the convergence zone if you are a little north of the city (it is real) and other things. Every year you seem to have so much angst and I wish I could help you to just go with the flow and enjoy life and roses. If I had to move to Las Vegas I would probably feel angst too. A big change. My sister was telling me how beautiful her neighbors roses were this year in Boulder City. Seattle is a small city. With your husband being a tech executive he should be able to get a good paying job. In the future when your children have children it will be more important to be a grandma and to be near your parents. Enjoy your children while you have them. They'll be gone in a blink. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-is-a-world-class-city-for-traffic-congestion/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-once-again-nations-fastest-growing-big-city-population-exceeds-700000/ http://www.seattletimes.com/life/lifestyle/newcomers-talk-about-the-seattle-freeze/ http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/more-records-fall-median-home-price-hits-722000-in-seattle-and-880000-on-eastside/ A lot better than California https://www.zillow.com/nv/home-values/ Las Vegas median home values PS: Have you ever driven from Seattle to Vegas? When you do you will realize it is a different planet;) You don't get that same feeling in a two hour flight. Good Luck!