I've been told Bourbon's tend to blackspot here. Currently all of my roses (save Tess) have blackspot, and my one bourbon (HdB) doesn't have any more than the others - probably less. I just planted a tea, so I hope she does alright! I'm pretty sure that teas do just fine here, but perhaps don't get as large as they would farther down the coast. I think anything that struggles with wetness or tends to ball might struggle here. I plan to plant all of the above, so we shall see. ;) I'll admit Archduke Charles is struggling but he came as the smallest band I've ever seen, so I'm blaming that. I might buy again in a one gallon.

In my PNW gardens, it's largely been due to blackspot. I don't spray. Some Teas or Tea-Noisettes may also get dinged by harsh winters. I do grow all the classes you listed, but I am selective about cultivars. Some blackspot terribly in our rainforest. Does this help? Carol

There are issues with any kind of rose in the PNW. Our climate is just not that well suited to them and fungal diseases of all sorts proliferate. It's even worse in the Puget Sound area than it is in Portland. About the only roses you see here disease free are rugosas and the natives. This is one of the reasons I dislike and discourage dedicated "rose gardens"..........they are just a breeding ground for fungal organisms and insect problems. I find roses interspersed with lots of other plantings have fewer issues. And are aesthetically more pleasing.

But I too have grown most types and also very selective with cultivars. Disease resistance - such as it is - is key but sometimes I am just willing to put up with the extra care required.

Check out this great thread by John on tea roses in the PNW (Portland).
http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4628558/yes-tea-roses-will-grow-in-the-pnw?n=54
From personal experience, I haven't yet tried to grow all classes of roses here in Seattle (give me a few years, lol) but I do think microclimates will have a lot to do with whether or not they work well. I love in a remarkably sunny spot for Seattle, so I have had good luck (so far).

FWIW, MOST Bourbons have struggled in my Coastal SoCal garden ... struggling through the years when our climate was cool and foggy. The couple of Bourbons I have now are doing remarkably well -- now that our climate has turned into a hot, dry Hell.

I don't honestly know whether it is an advantage to you, that your conditions are acidic, where mine are horridly alkaline.

But let me just say about 'Archduke Charles' -- that he isn't a Bourbon.

He's a China, really, and genetically almost identical to 'Old Blush'.

I should think that he would dislike cold winters -- and generally struggle. At least it's my impression that the PNW isn't "China Country."

The cause of confusion is stemming from my visit this past week to Seattle and the following:

1. Zone 8 is just not cold for most roses, including tea roses, but I know that Sun, and Summer heat to an extent, is something most seem to enjoy

2. Seattle receives less rain than the U.S. average.. definitely less than many states in the middle of the country but likely with more cloud cover, and I know that there is a time where the city skews towards dry and sunny.

3. I recently visited the Woodlands Zoo Rose Garden ( an ARS test garden). A few roses had blackspot (Bolero was the worst), however, some had missing leaves, so I am assuming that was due to blackspot. The vast majority of roses appeared extremely healthy in this organic garden.

4. Portland - the city of roses???, also known for beautiful roses.

5. Most of the roses were modern hybrid tea roses, rugosa, floribunda with Austin's here and there.

6. Sheilah's PNW, Oregon/Rogue Valley garden is breathtakingly beautiful, filled with healthy plants including Tea roses. Rogue and Heirloom are both in Oregon)..????

7. Beautiful, healthy roses could be seen in every neighborhood/area we visited. Was my visit to the PNW at the prime time and not indicative of the norm?

8. The Rhododendrons were magnificent. Are they a problem to grow also?

Rhododendrons are native to the PNW, and are the state flower of Washington, so they do pretty well here. ;)

I think you would find the PNW a lot easier to grow everything than Vegas, Lynn. I have had BS on some roses this Spring due to a cooler rainy Spring this year. I don't spray. I think we can grow a wide variety of roses here. My Tea roses do seem to be really healthy here so far. My philosophy is to put up with some of the imperfect foliage on some ( early DA) roses and not worry about it. I think some of our wonderful gardeners on this forum edit out roses that don't thrive for them, or look perfect, but all the types you mentioned grow well in the PNW I think.

I would think the Hybrid Musks would be good, and ramblers of every description, though I can't speak from personal experience. A group you don't mention are the once-blooming old roses, Gallicas, Albas, etc. These did very well for me in my Olympia garden and were my favorites of the roses I grew.

I think almost every locale other than Phoenix, which is hotter than here, can grow more plants than in Vegas, Sheilah. Being a Coastal So. Calif. native, it is something I have fretted about for years but could grow my garden love here, roses.

I love roses and could be spoiled because outside of 3-4 Summer months, the climate is mild and very conducive to growing roses here. They just require amended soil and water once the hole is dug. My roses have no disease, and I grow all classes except for those requiring significant Winter chill. Phoenix and Las Vegas are the clear skies, sunniest cities in the country... The Summer is dreadful!!!! I will never become accustomed to this, and it has been 17 years....

I appreciate the input you all have provided as I try to reconcile some of what I have read versus evidence from real gardeners in the region. But, I have more questions, please..

I read that Spring in the PNW lasts from about February or March until the beginning of July, and November is the worst month regarding weather (cold, torrential rain, etc.)?

When do the roses shake off blackspot, or is it an issue during the entire growing season?

Thank you for supplying images of your beautiful roses, Old Rosarian. I have to find the thread where you posted beautiful images from your garden, Carol. You both, and Sheilah in a short amount of time, have mastered growing roses in the PNW.

Four years ago, we considered moving to Seattle, Portland or Texas, but the timing was not right. Well, one teenager down and one to go. It is less than a year now...

"I read that Spring in the PNW lasts from about February or March until the beginning of July, and November is the worst month regarding weather (cold, torrential rain, etc.)?"

We PNW'ers like to encourage those sorts of rumors as it discourages those thinking about relocating here :-)

Spring can be quite wet - this year was a record setter - but not always. And spring weather can be fantastic as well. Last year was dry, warm and sunny staring in March and I had to start had watering all my containers a good two months earlier than normal. Right now, we are looking at a glorious summer day - not a cloud in the sky, Mt. Rainier sticking up like a gigantic beacon and expected temps in the high 80's.....a heat wave for Puget Sounders!!

I have never been to Texas but I have traveled to most other locations in the US and would not consider moving away from the PNW. The weather may not be ideal, especially during our long wet and gray winters, but we never get huge amounts of snow, it never gets bitterly cold, it never gets overly hot, no summer humidity, we seldom ever get bizarre, destructive storms and have very few nasty insect problems. And we can grow darn near anything here!! That's why the bulk of the wholesale growing nurseries for trees, shrubs and perennials for the entire US are located in the PNW.

btw. roses here do not "shake off" blackspot. It is a perennial problem that can vary with the rose and the siting and treatment but is generally omnipresent.

When I gardened in Co. So. Calif. blackspot was not unseen, but minor versus looking like a rose plague. I am guessing the practice of right rose, the right spot will prevail if one is to grow healthy roses...

By "shake off", I meant as the temperature increases and it becomes dryer, that environment naturally would result in the elimination or reduction of blackspot versus spraying to address the issue. I would not grow roses if spraying was required ( my personal choice), but after touring the rose garden at the Woodland Zoo, it appears that organic rose growing is possible..

We ruled out Portland because we are looking for a strong tech environment. My DH is from Coastal Southern CA also, our parents are older and reside in CA. Our family is there too. We have both visited TX, like it, but the geographics are problematic for us. We definitively decided upon No. Seattle...

I remember when you were considering the move, Lynn. We had a conversation about West Linn schools as well as gardens.

Portland climate has shifted a bit since then. Although rain, clouds and cool weather continued halfway into June this spring (with a couple of periods of 80s in the mix), the last few years have also produced more summer temps in the mid to high 90s and low 100s. Nothing even remotely like Las Vegas, though! I've lived in my poorly insulated 1912 house for 15 years without central AC, but finally caved this year. I had surrendered a few years ago and put portables in the bedrooms. Before then, we only used fans.

I garden organically. I have not even sprayed Safer products in this garden, so that limits my HT and other choices, but if truth is told, I can still grow gazillions more rose cultivars than I have room for. I may, at some point, use Safer on one or two particular HTs that I crave. Neptune does blackspot a bit, as does Deep Secret. Both are HTs. I don't think Gloire de Dijon or Marechal Neil would flourish in my garden, but they might in John's across town! I do grow Duchesse de Brabant, MAC and Blush Noisette, and I have grown a number of other Teas and Noisettes. They were lovely! I suspect that if you move to the PNW, your Teas will look like John's or Sheila's or Old Rosarian's. I'm a lazy gardener. :-)

A huge pile of once-blooming OGRs and native roses grow like slicing butter. Oh, those purple Gallicas!! Damasks, Albas, Mosses! Rosa rubrifolia and Rosa moschata and Rosa nutkana.

Portland roses have been true to their name and grown well and wonderfully for me in Portland, Oregon. Rugosas are a piece of cake. A number of HPs and Bourbons get little disease. At least a few roses of every class are disease free (or nearly) here.

Hybrid Musks are wonderful as are loads of ramblers (as Melissa suggested). Some Floribundas and shrubs, like Ebb Tide and Poseidon and Nearly Wild, get very, very little or absolutely no blackspot. Some roses get some BS, but drop their leaves and grow new ones. No harm done. Most that I grow (and list on the forum) get almost no BS or are completely clean. I hate BS!

Rhododendrons, as KS noted, are native. I currently grow Purple Splendour but have collected oodles in the past. Blue Peter and Sappho are two other favs. Oldies but goodies. Azaleas, which are really small rhodies, are lovely here. Hydrangeas and clematis varieties abound. Ditto camellias (japonica, sasanqua and sinensis), lilacs, dogwoods, mock oranges and others. Also violas, ironweed, brugmansia, hardy geraniums, centauria, hellebores, irises, phlox, daylilies, delphiniums, campanulas, poppies, lavender and herbs, honeysuckle, akebia, wisteria, grapes, kiwi, etc, I can't imagine a region where more kinds of garden plants thrive.

Rainfall and watering: I plan to FINALLY lay soakers this year! However, I've only watered a few (5 or less?) times this spring/early summer because we've had so much rain. We do have drought summers, so I water pots daily (or every other day) and do the whole garden once a week when temps are 90s or above. Newly installed items get extra splashes with a watering can.

I should mention that sometimes a few roses on some plants ball in the wet, but I still get plenty of good flowers on most roses. I do strategically site a few varieties that may be prone. I grow Felicite Parmentier and other very full once bloomers and get handfuls of lovely blooms.

Let me know if you'd like more info from me, Lynn. Any experiences that I can share that might be helpful, I'll gladly do so. Carol

One can still have an organic rose garden yet spray. I no longer grow any roses as I have moved to the woods but when I did (No. Seattle/Shoreline area) I would occasionally use Neem oil or homemade fungicidal recipes (milk spray, baking soda) when necessary.

btw, once present, heat or dryness does not necessarily eliminate a fungal issue. At least PNW heat and dryness :-)) IME, once black spot is present it will remain present and continue to proliferate unless affected foliage is removed or you spray to prevent.

I had already concluded that the information received via this thread is extremely helpful, but now I am in overload due to your post, Carol, but in a good way:) I am so appreciative of all the input received.

I'm curious on why you decided against Seattle. My husband and I moved from San Francisco to the Seattle area 16 years ago. We also needed to be somewhere that is a tech-hub. I grew up in Portland and would have preferred that city, but there weren't enough tech jobs at the time. Not so anymore....Portland is becoming the next Seattle according to my husband :)

As far as roses go....I can't give much advice on that topic as I have only grown a few scattered varieties of roses over the years. I definitely agree with what Carol said: the PNW has definitely gotten warmer over the years.

I am currently planning a large rose garden with almost every rose class represented...I'm curious to see how they will do! I will definitely report on my progress!

I'm curious as well! I think the only other place I'd want to live is Santa Barbara. ;) The antique rose farm has beautiful gardens of old roses and Austins that do very well here. Seattle proper is pretty expensive. I live in Bothell, it's a bit north and east but part of the greater area. It's also in the convergence zone, so wetter than the rest, but I'm okay with it. :) It's 92 today and I'm hiding inside with my a/c!

I think you might have misread the OP's comment :-)) She has ruled out Portland as not techy enough but has decided definitively on No. (north) Seattle.

I live on Bainbridge Island, a block up from the Sound, and it is always cooler here in summer (that breeze off the water) and milder in winter. Only 88 at my house and that's if you sit in the sun - about 10 degrees cooler in the shade. Very few PNW'ers have A/C - it is just not very necessary. 88 degrees is not all that common here in summer - mid to upper 70's is much more likely to be encountered.

We decided against Portland or Seattle 3-4 years ago because of our kids and their stability (schools, joint custody with ex-spouses, etc.), Rosylady and Robin. Three years ago, Portland had jobs in my DH's field, but not as many as Seattle. My husband's tech area is a bit specialized, and he is an executive. Those positions are more scarce. His former company was sold in April, and he is still in the "career search." There have been no opportunities for him in Portland...at all. The vast majority of opportunities have been in Seattle, Silicon Valley and Austin, TX.

We like the atmosphere in Seattle and have found it to be unpretentious, casual, but people tend to be educated and socially conscious. I spent a day on my own driving around Seattle. I visited Ballard, Robin, after my trip to the Woodland Zoo Rose Garden. I do not think we drove through Bothell. ( I confused Ballard and Bothell.. the B's) We ventured to Bellevue, and as far East as Duvall.... which is just too far out there for us. Thus far, we prefer the area North of Seattle.

We considered Bainbridge Island also, Gardengal, and while driving about, witnessed the line for the ferry. So far, we have decided that the commute would be too much. If we were closer to retirement or had a career site on the island, it would definitely be worth considering.

gardengal...I'm on Bainbridge too! On the north end of the island. I am currently absolutely sweltering as our house faces west, and there is a sea of stone and gravel out there absorbing all the heat. My poor newly planted roses are wilting even though they have been thoroughly watered. Like most PNW folks, I have no AC...we tell our children it's character-building :)

I have lived in Texas, the Bay Area, and the PNW. If I had my choice, I'd join Robin down in Santa Barbara :) haha Seattle is very expensive, has horrible traffic, and many grey days. The sunny days here more than make up for the grey ones. I was just in Portland recently and they also have horrible traffic and it's very expensive (although still cheaper than San Fran or Seattle). Texas is sweltering and dusty and not very green (as in plant-wise).

Bainbridge is a gardener's paradise. Here is a pic of my Darlow's Enigma rose that gets absolutely NO care whatsoever...no water, fertilizer, nothing. It blooms all summer and has no disease. So I guess Hybrid Musks do well here :)

Hello Desertgarden

I remember before you going thru the same dilemma. You and Jasminerose4u or somebody kept talking about it. It sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into moving. I remember back then I wasn't going to answer anymore but alas, here I am.

I think moving in order to have a job must be a lot easier than just deciding where to live. I think I would move with others to Santa Barbara:)

Anyhow, I have lived here for over 50 years and was born 100 miles from here and have a sister that lives in Boulder City, NV and works in Vegas. I go every year and have for many years I would not have to give her advice to move here because she would never do it. It's more like a great place to visit but wouldn't want to live there with her, even tho' every year she complains about her summers from H*ll. She's been there over 40 years. Every place has their own set of problems. Too hot, too cold, too rainy, etc. etc. etc. She freezes here and I tell her to put more clothes on. DUH!!!

First of all, I would worry about you more than your roses. Roses grow almost all over the world. Look how many members around the world this forum has. Every rose we grow is just an experiment anyhow.

I see you got some good answers on your rose concerns. I will try to give my answer to some of your other concerns.

1. Zone 8 is just not cold for most roses, including tea roses, but I know that Sun, and Summer heat to an extent, is something most seem to enjoy

I am zone 8A. The zone map says Min 10 to 15 degrees. Rare but not unheard of. I am in the urban area so warmer than suburbs. Mom used to say this was the banana belt. I've never lost a rose to the cold, doesn't mean it couldn't happen. And if it did, just a reason to try something new. Not the end of the world.

2. Seattle receives less rain than the U.S. average.. definitely less than many states in the middle of the country but likely with more cloud cover, and I know that there is a time where the city skews towards dry and sunny.

Don't move here if you can't handle the gray. We may not get a lot of rain but we can make it last month after month after month. I find it cozy but it would drive my sisters crazy. Some people move here and love it. July and August and some Septembers are usually our dry months. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php But man, it is gorgeous on a sunny day. It was 96 degrees today and broke a record from forever. Most of us do not have a/c. Back to the 70's tomorrow.

3. I recently visited the Woodlands Zoo Rose Garden ( an ARS test garden). A few roses had blackspot (Bolero was the worst), however, some had missing leaves, so I am assuming that was due to blackspot. The vast majority of roses appeared extremely healthy in this organic garden.

Woodland Park Rose Garden is 3.5 miles from me. I don't worry about blackspot so much as Powdery Mildew. Hate it! Hate it! Hate it! Even the new landscaping we just had put in has it. Hey, but we don't get as many weird bugs as other places. LOL!

4. Portland - the city of roses???, also known for beautiful roses

143 miles SOUTH of Seattle. Different city, hotter, colder.....not the same city.

5. Most of the roses were modern hybrid tea roses, rugosa, floribunda with Austin's here and there.

At the Woodland Park Rose Garden? It's a test garden. Or maybe they found those grow well. It gets a lot of tourists and a lot of weddings.

6. Sheilah's PNW, Oregon/Rogue Valley garden is breathtakingly beautiful, filled with healthy plants including Tea roses. Rogue and Heirloom are both in Oregon)..????

Rogue River, OR is approx 425 miles SOUTH of here. Completely different climate than Seattle. Sheila is probably near there and I think her garden looks lovely and she puts a lot of work to make it look that way. Thanks Sheila:) I love South Western Oregon and would move there if I didn't move to Santa Barbara. HA!

7. Beautiful, healthy roses could be seen in every neighborhood/area we visited. Was my visit to the PNW at the prime time and not indicative of the norm?

June and July are prime for roses. I would say my roses are good, some May, mainly June and July and start to slow down August and September they are gone. Or at least not that good. That's it! Seems like a pretty short season.

8. The Rhododendrons were magnificent. Are they a problem to grow also?

Rhodies are tall as a lot of houses here. I don't have any but see them everywhere in the Spring so I don't think they can be too hard to grow. Probably just need the correct soil.

I would be more concerned about: gray days, traffic, home prices, Seattle freeze (with so many newcomers not as strong), the convergence zone if you are a little north of the city (it is real) and other things.

Every year you seem to have so much angst and I wish I could help you to just go with the flow and enjoy life and roses. If I had to move to Las Vegas I would probably feel angst too. A big change.

My sister was telling me how beautiful her neighbors roses were this year in Boulder City.

Seattle is a small city. With your husband being a tech executive he should be able to get a good paying job. In the future when your children have children it will be more important to be a grandma and to be near your parents. Enjoy your children while you have them. They'll be gone in a blink.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-is-a-world-class-city-for-traffic-congestion/

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-once-again-nations-fastest-growing-big-city-population-exceeds-700000/

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/lifestyle/newcomers-talk-about-the-seattle-freeze/

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/more-records-fall-median-home-price-hits-722000-in-seattle-and-880000-on-eastside/

A lot better than California

https://www.zillow.com/nv/home-values/

Las Vegas median home values

PS: Have you ever driven from Seattle to Vegas? When you do you will realize it is a different planet;) You don't get that same feeling in a two hour flight.

Good Luck!

Thank you for the information, Barbara. My DH and I had only contemplated moving to the PNW and possibly Texas about four years ago. Four years ago, our knowledge was based on career opportunities and state/city research ( I am very thorough), but we were only going to move if an appropriate opportunity here did not appear. Last week's trip to Seattle and the surrounding areas provided us with some of the intangibles and real exposure to Seattle. Our decision to move was made two days ago, and my recent inquiry began with this thread, yesterday, because I am a roseaholic and a planner.

My DH and I are both Coastal Southern California natives, and we spent most of our life there. He grew up just South of Santa Barbara. Due to family, and wine club memberships/events, we travel to the area 3-4 times per year. I grew up in Palos Verdes/Redondo Beach area, but have lived in other So. Calif. areas. Neither of us wants to live in California again. I have visited most of the U.S. states, but never ventured to Oregon.

We drove around Washington from Tacoma and traveled far north. My husband was born in Northern California and until their passing, his grandparents continued to reside there, so growing up, family road trips that far happened regularly. Together, we have taken trips to Napa/Sonoma wine country, and then up the California Coast, but that is it.

We researched homes in Seattle before our trip and visited homes and neighborhoods during our visit. My stepson just graduated high school, and my daughter will be off to college next year. I do not think either will return to Las Vegas to live.

Oh, we experienced the traffic in Seattle and it is atrocious!!! There was an event occurring, and it just exacerbated an already bad situation with all of the construction etc.

Fortunately, the real estate market overall is decent. Our home's value far exceeds the median price here, and we will have options in Seattle. We built this home two years ago, and will likely get less house in Seattle; especially since this one was built to our tastes, etc. with a decent amount of modernity, however, we feel our new home will be in a better place, and that will be worth the potential downgrade.

Seattle is very progressive. That would be a lovely area to live. I found it a bit cold when I was looking for warmer after 33 years in Alaska. Non prechilled people would probably find it perfect.

This is O/T: regarding Seattle traffic, you can choose your house based on where your husband is likely to work. It is definitely worth while to minimize his commute, or to consider the non-driving options for said commute. For example, if he works on a tech campus in Fremont, I would suggest looking at places near the Burke Gilman trail for a delightful and safe bike commute. If he works downtown or in Pioneer Square then he could be a foot passenger on the Bainbridge Island Ferry, since that ferry terminal is right downtown. Living on the East side of Lake Washington makes sense if he would be at Microsoft, although I do know people who work there and live in the Northern neighborhoods of Seattle. The "connector" bus they offer might be a good option. Working north of the city obviously also opens up options. If I were you I would also strongly suggest looking at bus lines. Buses in Seattle are hugely popular and worth using, even if you aren't used to public transit. I live near several bus lines and the Burke Gilman trail, and walking distance from grocery stores. That makes my relationship to Seattle traffic much less fraught than 90% of the people who live in this town. Driving a car in Seattle is OK when everyone else is at work, but not during peak times.

Thank you so much for the information K S. The worst aspect of a move to Seattle from our perspective is the morning commute and traffic. I had been researching the rail lines and had not been able to make much sense of it thus far, but the commute to work was definitely a factor in selecting a location for our home.

For someone working downtown or in South Lake Union, the light rail is a really great option too. That opens up options both in the Ravenna neighborhood (where the next station is going in) and South of the city along the rail line. Ravenna is nice. The U-district, which adjoins it, is a bit rougher. Some of the areas South of Seattle along the light rail line are not yet "gentrified" so could be attractive or unattractive, depending on what sort of vibe you are looking for.

We can help with neighborhood info if you like! Once you know where he's working it all becomes a lot easier. I used to work and go to school in N Seattle and love it, but if he's working on the east side it gets harder, etc... We're in Bothell because we have church and school on the east side of the lake. The nice thing about tech jobs is they often have flexible hours and some telecommuting options to avoid traffic snares. Just want to say welcome! I love it here and am happy to help any way I can. :)

Thank you all for the information and offers of assistance. :) The situation regarding timing is uncertain, as the permanent relocation would have to be after my daughter graduates high school next year, but we have decided to move to the greater Seattle area...we hope it works out....