Heres a couple I made
{{gwi:20914}}

{{gwi:460196}}

{{gwi:386442}}

I like to use them for annuals and vegetables that way I can use the styrofoam cups.The perrenials I do in bottles to save room in my cold frame.The one coldframe is a plastic shelving unit turned over on it's side layed on a piece of plastic then wrapped up in it.The second is one I built with a window someone gave me.I used aluminum backed 1 inch styrofoam on the sides and top and bottom with a simple wood frame..

I was thinking about doing this, because I don't have any containers with lids.

I passed a house today that had a trash barrel out by the road waiting to be dumped and there was a frosted shower door with it that they were tossing and I couldn't help but think of how well it would work for a cold frame. I didn't stop. We have a Habitat for Humanity store where people donate building supplies that are resold and there are lots of bargains there. We also have a couple places in town that have damaged building supplies. That's a good place to look too.

I don't think a plain plastic sheet would work well on your raised bed because there's a good chance you could get a heavy snow after you have sprouts and they'd get squished. You'd just need some way to keep the plastic up.

For your hoop cold frame - Do you have a way to prop it open to vent it? I'm just assuming but it seems like you could skip putting holes in that cover as long as it got enough ventilation.

Sounds like you're well on your way. Good luck.

This cold frame was covered with re-claimed curio cabinet doors, glass removed and replaced with hardware fabric sandwiched in 4-mil plastic. The cover lasted 3 WS seasons.

{{gwi:415408}}

This one was a boat, covered in a single layer of 4-mil plastic, supported by bamboo. The cover lasted 1 WS season.

{{gwi:415409}}

I posted last night but there must have been a problem with it, since then there's been some really great response to my questions.

Wow both tomva and donn are quite the carpenters.
I understand I'd have to support the plastic.
I went ahead and made a cold frame but really want it for WSing. First I'm making two different ones the hoop one and the quick one last night.

The one last night has 3 oddly shaped pieces of plexiglass held together with furring strips and 1 x 3's. It has a hinge, so I can prop it open as wide as I want. I was wondering do I have to make another cover for it that would let the rain water in? I can simple lay boards from side to side and put the 4 ml plastic inbetween and lhold the plastic down with bricks. Also I thought if it pours down I have the lid and can shut it. It will also be nice to protect the little sprouts once their growing. As you see I'm doing this partly because I have oddly shaped contaienrs or they have fragile lids, or there isn't much growing room in the containers.

Both Tomva and Donn, I'd like to ask how did you achieve the thaw freeze melt theory required of WSing? I've heard you can shovel snow in on the plants incase they were put up against the house and not enough snow was getting on them.

As for ventilation on the hoop coldframe/greenhouse, WSing house, both sides could either be shut or opened. I will find away to keep them vented and open them some too.

Bottom line do I have to put holes in the 4 ml plastic and if I did how would that handle the wind? If I put duck tape on each side and made just a few slits in the fabric (enough for some drips of water (but see I could carry a sprinkler out and shovel snow in)

So do you think I wouldn't have to makee holes in the fabric gyes. You've had the experience.

I like Done how used really stepped up the process by sowing flats like that and covering large pieces all together. it seems so much more efficient.

Perhaps I'll take some pictures but mine is no where near as fancy as you gyes, I'm a very beginner carpenter.

Did you puts holes in your roofs,
and were you trying to achieve a cold frame or WSow in them? Get my meaning.
thanks for the help,
I'll be back tomorrow to check the answers.
Micki

Let me say that the plastic one I have is more handy for wintersowing.The glass one heats up too quickly.You have to understand that even in the bottles that we use the inside temp will be a bit higher than the outside temp.With my window one, I can easily have temps 30 to 40 degrees higher inside.Too high.The plastic one works much better,for wintersowing.It doesnt heat up near as high and this lets the plants come with spring instead of ahead of spring. I do cut slits in it with a knife all over the top of it for letting water in.And yes I was trying to use the plastic one for wintersowing containers that had no lids..I hope this helps you a bit. Micki,Gardening is all just an experiment.I think as gardeners we like to experiment with different methods..I'm sure you will find what works best for you and your climate..

Mikki,

That coldframe went through 5 seasons, acting first as a corral for my containers:

{{gwi:460200}}

{{gwi:460203}}

Then as a shade-house in spring and summer:

{{gwi:460204}}

And finally as what you see above, a space for hundreds of cells in flats to germinate and grow on:

{{gwi:460205}}

I just tossed the timbers last year, after replacing the cold frame with a raised bed.

The boat was a one year experiment, because I was generating so many flats of cells, the cold frame was full:

{{gwi:460206}}

The boat is a planter now, and I bit the bullet and built a permanent Pot Ghetto:

{{gwi:460207}}

I have several sheets of twin-wall polycarbonate greenhouse glazing waiting, to enclose a portion of the Pot Ghetto and make a mini-greenhouse.

I've posted all this stuff before, but it started back in 2004, so the threads may no longer be here.

Tomva
you've answered my question exactly, thank you. Right now I have a plexiglass lid on my box but it does have hinges. I was wondering if I could just lift up the hinge to let in the elements. Today I shovels in some snow.

Or would it be better to take off the roof completely and just cover with the four mil plastic (with slits in it) supported by furrowing strips. This is probably best.

Again, the purpose is one of my largest containers doesn't have a suitable lid and some of the other make shift lids are not sturdy or well fitted. Also in this structure I wanted to use the white milk jugs since there are so many of those around. I'll leave the tops on for now but thought as the the weather warms and sun is required for germ I will cut off the tops. The tops for now are just for added protection. Comments?

Donn,
your cells in flats don't look very deep, do you have good luck with that? I've heard you can sow in cell pack and use the dome lids. Is there any advantage or diadvantage to that?I've been told to use at least 4 inches of soil since WSown seeds have deep underground roots. I've also read using cell packs is also fine. Do you have to transplant them sooner?
There must be a nice advantage when you're transplanting.

Also, curious what containers are you sewing in, it looks like a drawer with slates in it, kinda like milk crate.
Wondered if I could do anything with drawers, Happene to have a lot of them available.

Your Greenhouse looks amazing.
I looked up the cost of the "twin-wall polycarbonate greenhouse glazing" and unless you have a good place to get it the cost is up there. Can you get it locally?

I may show you gyes a picture of my contraption.
Let me know if I should take off the plexiglass top and replace it with a plastic top that I can put holes in? Probably what I'll do. I can use the tops later I suppose to keep the seedlings warm should they sprout and a freeze is expected.

Both you gyes carpentary is amzing, I'm a beginner.
Micki777

When you cover

Mikki...the cells are plant bands...specially coated paper made specifically for starting plants. I have them in a variety of sizes, but the ones you see in those photos are 1.5" square and from 2.5-4" deep. They are open, top and bottom, and they sit in mesh-bottom flats, so the roots are air-pruned when they reach the bottom. This makes for full and bushy root systems inside the band. You can plant them, in the bands, straight into the soil, or easily remove the band and plant just the seedlings with root mass. The bands are 96% biodegradeable, so all that remains is the coating.

The black flats are 1 foot square and 4" deep. The ones in the photos are holding 64 plant bands each. The flats break down and fold flat, so it's a snap to open them up, remove the bands and plant them.

I use them in cold frame type structures, but two flats fit perfectly inside a clear plastic recycle bag if you don't have a cold frame. 128 cells in a bag. It's the perfect winter sowing vehicle.

Tom, you answered my question exactly thank you very much.
I've lost 3 messages trying to get this posted so I might forget to say one or two things.
Both of you are amazing carpenters, I a super beginner.

I was finally able to load some pictures on.
the first one is an old chest I can use for containers without proper lids or shallow lids. Also the white milk jugs are great but not transparent enough.

I'm a little uneasy at the height of the container. I may have to make a raised floor. The neat part about this is too are the slates or drawer moldings that will hold my plastic up, so there will be no need to make a frame to hold up the plastic.

On the cold frame/wsing box I might take off the lid but might keep it on incase we get a downpoor which is to be expected. Then all I'd have to do is shut it.

I've noticed your coldframes are slanted, is that for added sun exposure?

I thought about that and thought about tilting the chest of drawers, I don't think it would hurt the plants inside. I can work something out there.

I could leave the lid up on the cold frame unless we get high winds like we did yesterday. With the door down I thought it might blow it up.

I will have to look into your potting flats Donn they look very nice.
Are you wintersowing in jugs?
Are you using your greenhouse/coldframe for WSing?
If you like you can email me, I'd like to know a little more about your process.
Micki
{{gwi:460208}}


{{gwi:460209}}


{{gwi:460210}}


{{gwi:460211}}

At the beginning of winter I only use my plastic shelving unit turned on it's side as a corral just to keep the bottles and containers all huddled together to keep the wind from blowing them over.No pastic cover. I sow the seeds in 16 oz soda bottles,2 lt soda bottles,milk jugs,juice jugs,I don't use plastic at all on this till later on,I do the wintersowing like most people on here,It works great .I sow my perrenials this way and the hardy annuals.Late winter, say March I will sow tender annuals and tomatos and peppers in styrofoam cups, then I add the plastic.I would recommend you try a thermometer inside with your diffent tops and see what the difference is from outside air temp.You really dont want it to be much different from the outside air temp,Unless you build a greenhouse.Just remember to keep the thermometer out of the sunshine. I dont know how much the plexiglass will heat the air in the container,but I know plastic like dropcloths,not so much,unless its a unseasonably warm day,then just uncover.The window one,I only use late winter as just a protection for the annuals,that have sprouted, that hate the cold,If we are expecting an unusual cold nite or a major temp drop,I move them to the window one,This one I have a strand of Christmas lites in and I just plug it up. Also come late winter I can remove all the tops from all the sprouted containers, then I can cover and uncover all of them rather quickly instead of going to each individual one and uncovering and recovering.My recommendation don't experiment too much the 1st year,It's pretty successful if you just follow the ways written in the faqs.You can overcomplicate it.I always tell the newbies,just throw some dirt and seeds in a milkjug and forget about it.It works..

Micki..I don't use jugs any more. A few years into WS I discovered plant bands (on the Rose Forum), got some of them on closeout, and have gone almost exclusively to them for all seed starting. I use fixed cell flats for some things, but mostly plant bands.

'Plant Bands' are really Zipset Plant Bands, made and sold by Monarch Manufacturing, linked below.

{{gwi:460212}}

The idea for them came from waxed cardboard milk cartons. I used hundreds of orange juice cartons, also:

{{gwi:460213}}

They are essentially specially configured sheet card tubes, open at the top and bottom, and rectangular in shape, so they efficiently fill square flats. The flats have mesh bottoms, so when the initial roots reach the bottom of the band, they are air-pruned, which forces more root growth inside the band, for a nice dense root mass. The come in a variety of lengths, widths and weights. The first ones I bought were 1.5" square by 6" long, and I cut each one in half to make 3" deep bands. The case had 3,000 bands, giving me 6,000 planting cells.

I built my first flats from wood, with hardware fabric bottoms and lids.

{{gwi:460214}}

I also built a simple water tank, so I could bottom water the flats.

{{gwi:460215}}

Before I started using my cold frames to hold the flats, each 128 cell flat was kept in a clear plastic recycling bag, with holes top and bottom.

Then Monarch had a sale on used 4" deep flats. I ordered a case, and they arrived filthy dirty, and required extensive cleaning before I could use them, but they were great. One foot square by 4" deep, and they folded flat for cleaning and storage. Here's the set-up process:

A broken-down flat and the bands for it:

{{gwi:460216}}

Fold up the flat's sides and snap them together:

{{gwi:460217}}

Fill the flat with bands:

{{gwi:460218}}

Fill the bands with medium part way:

{{gwi:460220}}

Tamp down the bottom 1/3 of the soil before filling the band all the way up:

{{gwi:460221}}

{{gwi:460222}}

Soak the flat in a tub of water:

{{gwi:460223}}

Let the flat drain, and top off the soil. Sow the cells, and hang a number tag on the flat. The sown contents are logged into a spreadsheet, corresponding to the tag number:

{{gwi:460224}}

That's it. Out they go, to await germination. Planting them out or potting them up is a simple as opening up the sides of the flat, removing the cells, and planting them, either in the bands, or not.

PS...I just noticed Monarch has a few different size plant bands on sale right now, on their 'Specials' page.

Here is a link that might be useful: Monarch Plant Bands

Here are a few pics of bands with seedlings:

{{gwi:460225}}

{{gwi:460226}}

{{gwi:460227}}

Donn,I'm really liking those plantbands.Great show and tell by the way..

The bands are extremely useful, Tom, and not just for seed starting. I use larger ones to pot on seedlings. I have several different sizes now, up to 4" square. I buy them as closeouts, and got 3" and 4" bands in 14" lengths, so I can cut them down to more appropriate depths.

For example, when I buy ornamental grass plugs in small sizes, I pot them up to 1-quart sized 4" bands. 9 of them fit in a flat, so they use space in the pot ghetto much more efficiently than round pots. Smaller transplants go into 3" bands, at 12 to a flat.

The air-pruning works the same in the larger bands as the smaller ones, and my potted-on plants develop tremendously healthy root systems, with no root-binding at all.

Wow, what a set up. Ditto, nice show and tell.
I will be getting 200 gallon pots and wanted to put them in my hoop greenhouse with slits in the top to let water in. If I reinforce the slits with duct tape do you think it will hold up to the wind? Or should I just water the flats occationally and throw snow in on top of them?
Tom, I'm doing a lot of containers and this will really make it easier for me, that's why I need to know if my greenhouse with hopes in the roof will work for wsing.
Please answer this specifically if you could and I really appreciate all you two gentelmens help, you really know your stuff.

I'm still confused Don on the air pruining? Are you cutting the roots which come out of the bottom?

Micki

1. You might just be able to fit ~50 1-gallon pots in a 4x8' space.

2. Holes in the plastic cover of a hoop house, reinforced or not, will make it more likely to be blown apart by the wind.

3. I watered the stuff in my cold frames as needed, using a 2-gallon sprayer.

4. Air-pruning means when the roots reach the bottom of the flat,and contact the air, they stop growing, and force the development of new branches above.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air Pruning

OK, thank you Donn, that makes my decision to not make holes in the top. This was a major hurdle to get over, thanks a lot! I'll just spray water in/or shovel snow in to assimulate mother nature. Did you consider this WSing? Were some of your plants needing to be cold stratified? Tom and Don what do you grow? Veggies or flowers or both?

I guess another alternative would be to not attach the hoops until spring when it would be more of a cold frame to protect the little sprouts. For now, I could just put plastic over the 8x10' frame and still be able to put slits in it.I would weight the plastic down with bricks or boards, nothing fancy.

What do you think of that idea?

I am still using as many milk jugs and other plastic containers as I can get my hands on. As for the 200 count containers, the main objective there was to have pots ready to transplant the seedlings into, but it also dawned on me I could sow in them as well.

As Tom said, keeping it simple the first yr might be best. I don't want to heat up the inside of the greenhouse too quickly. Also Donn, I like your idea of using the greenhouse for shade as well.

I've already made a plastic cover for the smaller cold frame and could really take off the plexiglass lid, since its only lible to get damaged by a wind storm.

I'll look around for clear plastic recycling bags and that may solve some of my containers without proper lids.

How do these ideas sound?

Another part of this is: I just like to build things. I can erect my hoop greenhouse in the Spring and use it for shade/warmtnm and other required protection for the seedlings. I will have to buy another roll of clear plastic but that's okay. With there being so much extra plastic available I'll use it for my lids and just duct tape it on.

When Tom made the point that I might be heating the containers up too much within the greenhouse space before their time that concerned me.

Really like your air pruning containers. Mother nature really does some neat things. I'll look into those containers.

Thanks to both of you for chimming in here.
Micki

Don and tom what do you grow? I do not grow vegtables
Have a great day,
Micki