Eastern swallowtail uses sweetbay magnolia in the Northeast/NJ

13 years ago

Hi,

Years back, I posted a thread asking butterfly gardeners in the northeast to let me know if they knew if eastern swallowtail will use sweetbay magnolia (Magnolia virginiana var. virginiana) in the north (i.e. NJ). They are known to do so in the south but someone(s) posted that those who use sweetbay magnolia are a distinct gene-pool apart from the easter swallowtails of the north - saying they probably don't use sweetbay, just the other typical hostplants: Prunus etc.

Two weeks ago, I observed an eastern tiger swallowtail laying her eggs on my sweetbay magnolia; in the past, I've seen swallowtails (including either spicebush or the black variation of the tiger swallowtail) flying around the flowerless tree, but this time I actually observed the depositing of eggs.

Sweetbay is not really extant around here for about 40 miles to the south.

Steve

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Comments (12)

larry_gene
13 years ago
Thanks for the specific observation, will add to the FAQ that just mentions Magnolia family in general.
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bananasinohio
13 years ago
Fascinating! According to the literature, the preference for the northern species is Tulip tree (Liriodendron tulipifera). How available is this tree in your area? I know that in northern Kentucky an aquaintance of mine has them laying on Sweetbay.
-Elisabeth
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Please, recommend small trees, pref. native to northeast.
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Comments (8)
Lpinkmountain has given you a bunch of good suggestions, (& probably Eric also, though I didn't follow his links.) I have several additions of native trees, most of which I grow. Oxydendron arboreum would probably stay within your size requirements. Acer pensylvanicum tops out at about 35', has green and white striped bark, decorative dangling clusters of spring flowers (tho small and green) and yellow fall color and is a woodland native. Several native viburnums are small to medium, multistemmed trees: V. lantana, V. cassinoides &/or nudum (taxonomy is up in the air), V. prunifolium. all have white spring flowers in flat panicles, late summer to fall berries, and good fall color. Prunus americana, flowering plum, is a small native spring flowering tree with pink to white blooms. I don't know if it meets your requirement of long-lived, but the ones I know have been around 20+ years and are still plugging away. I didn't find any reference to how long they typically live. I don't know if you want to consider them as well, but there are some native large shrubs that include Clethra alnifolia (likes wetlands, has white to pink late summer flowers and golden fall foliage), Fothergilla major (white spring flowers and red to orange fall color), several of the native deciduous rhododendrons, rhus typhina (staghorn sumac, which suckers, but has the most gorgeous fall colors of any plant I know), Ilex verticillata (deciduous, nonprickly winter berry holly), and high bush blueberries. One additional note: I have Cornus alternifolia growing in full sun and full shade and every light level in between, and it's truly a four season tree: creamy white panicles of spring flowers, late summer berries (dark blue with bright red stems) and nice overall shape, peachy fall foliage, and great winter branch structure. It's fuller in sun than in shade, had more blooms, and is nicer foliage color.
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Rue thrives best on benign neglect. I rarely water it and never fertilize mine either. Treat it as a typical Mediterranean herb. except that in my zone, it prefers some shade. It should grow just fine in Florida. Maybe it needs more of a shady location, with excellent drainage, as most herbs require. Rue does need to be watered until it is established, and then very little once it is. I consider it a short-lived perennial. After 4 or 5 years, it will probably need to be replaced. Some say it self-sows for them, but for me, it never has. It does, however, root readily in water. I have cut stems to put in my caterpillar containers, and it has rooted, despite the foliage being eaten to the bones. Some people also have problems with contact dermatitis from handling the foliage and exposure to sunlight which then triggers the dermatitis. I am not allergic to it, but use caution just in case you are. I find Rue in the local nurseries that have a large Herb section, for a couple bucks a plant, so it's not expensive. That means it's easy to propagate and grows quickly, contrary to herbs like Bay Laurel that grow so slowly and can be difficult to propagate, hence they are much more expensive plants. Susan
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NJ, I've attached a list of butterfly host plants for New Jersey, however, there is a caveat attached that this is only NATIVE plants and not non-native species. It is possible that as you say, 'some say Amelanchier....is a host for ETS and RSP. I don't grow it, so I do not know, unfortunately. Is Magnolia virginianum hardy in NJ? I am growing it here, but it is a very small tree yet, so I am not planning on its availability for Eastern Tigers. Here they like to use Cottonwood and perhaps Lilac. Judy Burris, I believe - who lives in Kentucky and wrote the book that we recommend - grows some kind of dwarf willow that the RSPs and Viceroys use. I don't think they are limited to just black willow. But I also have started growing a small wild cherry (prunus serotina) to hopefully encourage the RSPs. Sandy in Tulsa, Oklahoma, is using Pussy Willow to attract the RSPs and Viceroys. Hope you get some responses from other northerners, like Cathy, Bernergirl, etc., who can be more definite. Susan Here is a link that might be useful: New Jersey Butterflies
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Steve, I have seen Red-spotted Purples depositing eggs on and found their larvae on Serviceberry in West Virginia just south of PA. Curt
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christie_sw_mo
13 years ago
I'm in southwest Missouri. I don't know if that's considered north or south to the butterflies but I have had a tulip tree for many years and it doesn't seem to be increasing my population of Tiger Swallowtails. I did some searching on Google not long ago to see if I could find which one is preferred in Missouri. I always see just two or three tiger swallowtails every summer and I've never found any cats on my tulip tree. Maybe I need to try a sweetbay magnolia.
Where did you get your magnolia Steve? I don't think I've ever seen one for sale locally in my area.
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KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
13 years ago
Tigers are wannabe moths. They eat lots of different trees: ash, birch, black oak, sassafras, spicebush, cherry, basswood and catalpa are just part of the list.

I just wish a tiger would make an appearance at my house to give me hope of finding a cat. My buttonbush flowers have come and gone, and no tigers were spotted :( This is my fifth year at this house and I have yet to see a tiger. My first house is about 7 miles from here and I got tigers all the time. Location, location, location.

KC
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MissSherry
13 years ago
If buttonbush won't bring tigers to your property, then they must not exist for MILES around you, KC!
In my area they appear to use wild black cherry/Prunus serotina as much or more than tulip tree - they also use Ptelea trifoliata occasionally.
The only lep I know of that uses sweetbay here other than generalist moths, like inchworms, is sweetbay silkmoths.
Sherry
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runmede
13 years ago
The caterpillar host plant database list 4 swallowtails that use the Sweet Bay:
Papilio glaucus
Papilio palamedes
Papilio polyxenes
Papilio troilus

Here is a link that might be useful: Swallowtails that Use Sweet Bay
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KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
13 years ago
Sherry,

A butterfly gave me a flash of yellow today and I got all excited! :D It was maybe 60 feet from me and I got just a glimpse but I was hoping it was a tiger. Probably 4 minutes later, some kind of sulphur flew over me so that is probably what I saw the first time.

I spoke too soon about my lack of buttonbush flowers. There are still some flowers on it but only the bees are taking advantage. The RAs and GSFs are hanging out on my purple coneflowers. Had a mourning cloak sunning itself on my deck today. QMs were flitting about. Speaking of QMs, when I let a female cecropia go a few days ago, a QM took exception and hounded that poor cecropia. Most female cecropias do not fly when I let them go during the day but this one did and the QM made sure the cecropia knew that she had made a mistake. I'll quit rambling now.

KC
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MissSherry
13 years ago
That's weird about the butterfly hounding the big moth, KC!
Surely you can eventually get some tiger swallowtails! With their host plants being so varied, there is bound to be something they'll use. Do you live in an urban, suburban or rural area?
My buttonbush is continuing to bloom, though there are fewer blooms on it now than earlier. There are always some tigers on it -
{{gwi:454941}}
Sherry
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runmede
13 years ago
My botton bush is in bloom, but the female Tiger loved the Purple Coneflowers today. She stayed for over half an hour.
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KC Clark - Zone 2012-6a OH
13 years ago
Sherry,

I live in a semi-rural area with trustees that want to treat us like the city folks. I was at the township trustee meeting Thursday night. They were passing resolutions on who needed to mow their lawns. An undeveloped field where I get my milkweed was on the agenda. I complained to the zoning official and one trustee but got nowhere. Went over to the field yesterday (Friday) to find cats before the mowers show up but found none.

On the happy side of life, when I was leaving my house to go to that field, I found a tiger swallowtail on my purple coneflowers. I grabbed my camera but it left instead of posing. When I was at the field (about 1/2 mile from my house), I saw another tiger swallowtail (might have been the same one). So, the tigers have finally found me!!

KC
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MissSherry
13 years ago
It's good you saw some tigers, KC, but sorry about the trustees. I'll never know why natural nature is always is need of mowing or altering in some fashion - I must be a born hippie!
Sherry
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bananasinohio
13 years ago
Hey KC;
The tigers have just come out again this week here. I have seen about ten this week. Also, the spicebush and red spotted purples. The pipevines are on their third flight already. We are having a good year for them. I have seen snouts consistently down here as well. I saw one zebra this week as well. The first I have seen all year. Oh, I also saw a giant and all the giants in the house are out. So it seems the swallowtails are on cycle together and are all in-flight right now.
-Elisabeth
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Eastern swallowtail uses sweetbay magnolia in the Northeast/NJ

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