Some aloes are winter growers and some are sumer growers.There, are you any less confused. It is on a species by species bases. They come from different places. Some regions in S. Africa and Africa are summer rainfall places and some places are winter rainfall places. Some are both.

Hi Zac,
I'm in Arizona, and all my hybrids are blooming. So yes, it's confusing. It has been insane mild here, so that has everyone even more confused. :)

Here is a link to some information on what plants are dormant when. Scroll down to about 1/2 way and you will find a dormancy table.

It's general not exact , as wantonamara states, aloe depend on where they came from, but it may help you with any other plants you have.

One thing I have learned here, is when you do repot, do so dry and don't water for at least a week. If roots are damaged in the repot, and then wet, you run the risk of rot.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dormancy Table

Thanks for all the info.

I have noticed the following excerpt from the 'dormancy table' under the 'summer dormant' plants such as aloes.

"Their primary growth actually occurs during autumn and spring while slowing considerably during true winter"

Based on the above statement, winter growers such as aloes coninue to grow from fall all the way to end of spring albeit slower in winter but still active. So I would assume that aloes can be planted basically anytime of the year (even in zones with true winters)except for summer.
I think I'm on the right track. Aren't I?

Although, the article mentioned all aloes as winter growers, there's no specific info on individual aloes.
Does anyone have a detailed info on this.
Has anybody read the
"Guide to the Aloes of South Africa by Ben-Erik Van Wyk"
Will this explain all this stuff?

Thanks again for your input.

Zac

Zac,

That book will certainly explain a lot, but first you need to let us know where you're at, geographically speaking. That book's great (and I think that they have another out, too) stuff - I've read it several times.

My Aloe experience in San Diego (SD, a true Aloe paradise, if there ever was one) is that Aloes are first very opportunistic growers - with the exception of the following Aloes (listed in a group below), if you have heat (above 60F, preferably), sun and some water, along with a good growing medium, most of the RSA/Madagascar/Arabian Peninsula Aloes will grow all the time; they do, IME, slow down in the winter, but they don't stop on the dance floor.

It's true that there's a small group of Aloes that don't want water in the summer, but once again it's also dependent on your cultural conditions. If I had the following Aloes in my collection, even in an optimum growing area such as SD, I would limit to a trickle/stop completely any watering in the summer:

Aloe pillansii
Aloe dichotoma
Aloe plicatilis
Aloe sladeniana
Aloe krapholiana
Aloe ramosissima

and there are also a few others. Other plants from the winter-rainfall areas of that corner of the RSA, such as Tylecodons and Othonnas, should also get no/little water.

Aloes can be planted at any time of the year - for that matter, anything succulent, IME, can be planted at any time of the year - it's what you do afterwards (watering/fertilizing) that matters, not the mere act of performing PIG (plants in ground).

All Aloes could, I suppose, grow in winter, but that statement is true if you can provide heat, light, warmth and the rest of the necessary cultural conditions. Right now, my two Aloes (the collection, which numbered over 100, has been reduced to two, alas) A. vera and A. marlothii, get a sip of water every two weeks, but once again, where I am determines my culture - once it's summer, they're going outside and will be watered weekly.

Hi-

Thanks for all that good info.

I live in Berkeley, ca near the bay. We've had nights averaging around 40-45 degrees this winter with the exception of a couple of nights of 30 degrees three weeks ago.

I am considering buying Ben-Erik Van Wyk's book; is there another book that you would recommend?

I have the following aloes that I have already (only ferox) or planning to plant into the ground:

Aloe Cameronii hybrid
Aloe Vanbelenii
Aloe cryptopoda
Aloe Striata
Aloe Ferox
Aloe Speciosa
ALoe Polyphylla
Aloe Petricola
Aloe Brevifolia
ALoe nobilis
Aloe Plicatilis

And these agaves:

Agave Parryi Truncata
Agave Vilmoriniana
Agave Attenuata
Agave Victoria Regina
Agave Mediopicta Alba

And other succulents such as Echinocactus grusonii that I'm also planning to plant into the ground.

You mentioned that your collection of 100 had been reduced to 2. Why is that? Did some of your aloes do poorly in your area? And why are you keeping them indoors during winter? can't they not handle the winter oudoors?

Thanks again,

Zac

Almost all cacti are summer growers.

Zac,

A number of our regularly-contributing folk live in the same area as you do, so they may chime in with on-the-spot-guidance-and-counseling - they're your best source of knowledge about PIGing.

If you look at the information next to my handle, you'll see that I'm in Zone 4 - it's a very unpropitious climate for outside Aloes right now. The collection was reduced, by necessity, because I moved from San Diego to Kamloops, BC, and couldn't, in good conscience, bring all of those plants with me.

Thanks for all the input!

Juper, the Ben-Erik Van Wyk's book is primarily an identification resource. Its fun to look at the pics and they speak to the status of each species as it occurs in the wild but there is no mention of care at all.
I think you can plant at anytime but if your hesitant...wait until spring. You probably get a lot more water (rain) than we do in San Diego and its generally good to be in control of how much water the plants are getting until they have somewhat of an established root system. In particular be careful with plicatilis and water. If it is too hot or too cold for a stretch the plicatilis really doesnt want wet roots. Good draining planting mix also is a must with plicatilis. Good luck to you and your plants.

Zac,

That's a good point - like with watering, if you're in doubt about PIG, don't.

Two others that are primarily winter-growers, I believe -

Aloe falcata
Aloe glauca

Great points. I will wait a couple of months.

Thanks everybody.

Zac

In Berkeley your list of Aloes would do great in the ground. When I lived in Vallejo I put ferox in the ground, in 10yrs I had a specimen that was 5ft tall with a 6in diameter trunk. In Fairfield now and have 7 Aloe ramosissima and 4 dichotoma in a raised bed, they get some water in the summer but not directly. Their roots are into the ground by now and get moisture when I water my summer growers.

Thanks for responding; great to hear that.

I assume that you also withhold watering your Ferox directly in summer as well. Am I correct?

How does your Ferox handle cold nights around 30; have you had any experience with frost hitting their inflorescence?

I was also wondering if you knew of a good place to purchase 5 gallon and up of the following aloes - (I will probably open up another thread for that as well).

A. petricola
A. aculeata
A. reitzii

I have been to a lot of east bay nurseries but they don't seem to carry them.

Thanks,

Zac

ferox can easily handle 30deg (flowers get die back), can also handle moisture as long as drainage is sharp. Berkeley does not get over 90deg usually so summer water should not be a problem.

I've seen aculeata and reitzii at Ace Hardware in Piedmont and at the Dry garden. petricola try online at Arid lands.

I've been to both places; but no luck. I'll try Arid Lands.

Thanks anyways.

Zac

How Annie's Annuals? plants are in 4" pot but they have variety of Aloes. They get their seed from Silverhill in SA.

Thanks, I will take a look at Annie's Annuals.

Caudex1,
Picked up few Reitzii at Annie's Annuals. Thanks for that reference! Zac

I have the book, Guide to South African Aloes, and it actually does reference where each Aloe is native, and whether it is a summer or winter or year round rainfall habitat. There is some limited mention of garden care, but its mostly in reference to whether the species is tolerant of winter rainfall conditions of the Western Cape, and will often say whether a particular species has proven adaptable to garden culture in South Africa, or is better left to experts. A few of the species they mention as less easy to cultivate, such as A. plicatilis and A. polyphylla, actually seem to thrive with our foggy, cooler summers and relatively balmy winters.

In general, almost all of the winter rainfall Aloes do just fine here in Berkeley, and I have had no problems with giving Aloe plicatilis year round irrigation as long as it has sharp drainage and full sun. Aloe dichotoma, although from a winter rainfall area, only tolerates near desert rainfall amounts unless it has excellent drainage, so would be one that needs protection from too much rain, as you can rot this one out at the base before you realize it is damaged. In general, Aloe species that are from the areas within the Eastern Cape that are borderline between winter and predominant summer rainfall would also be extremely adaptable to Berkeley conditions as long as they got good drainage.

The only Aloes I've had problems with in my own Berkeley garden are usually due to poor drainage/not enough sun in winter, for summer rainfall species such as A. chabaudii and A. glauca and others that prefer a drier and warmer winter.

Of the others on your list, it is worth mentioning that A. vanbelenii and A. cameronii seldom color up in foliage unless you keep them dryer from late fall into winter. They need full sun and drought stress, or else the foliage merely stays green. I'd also suggest that you grow A. polyphylla with morning sun or cool sun if all day long, and plant it tilted slightly so it can't collect and trap water in the foliage under high rainfall conditions, or it may rot out. It also seems to hate consistent 80F and above temps for lengthy periods in summer, which can weaken the plant. All the other plants on your list seem pretty reliable, as I've seen them growing well up at the UCBBG. I've never tried growing A. cryptopoda myself, but would assume with good drainage as it gets up at the botanic garden, it does well here.

You may find that the Aloes that come from the more tropical/further north locations of South Africa are often more touchy about too much winter rains here, and are often more freeze sensitive as well.

Bahia,

Thanks for that thorough explanation.

I think it would be worth investing in the 'Guide to the Aloes of South Africa" although quite pricey.
Would you recommend any other book?

As you pointed out, the key is to provide excellent drainage for these plants. And our heavy clay soil won't make this any easier.

I'll be using the product of American Soil Company(their 'well draining organic mix' with pumice - 50/50 mix). Would you recommend this mix?

I am planning on digging out as much clay as I can, creating a nice deep and wide space for each individual plant and place in the mix. What do you think of that procedure?

Best,

Zac

Zac,

Not really a good idea to create planting pits of improved soil set within a flat clay existing soil. Under heavy rainfall conditions this will concentrate water into your improved soil pit, until all the soil moisture can penetrate vertically down into the existing clay.

It would be easier and better for improved drainage if you can design your area for Aloes to be a raised mound, or create low walls and elevate the entire planting area? Also, planting on a slope will ensure good drainage, even if the slope is still mostly clay.

For some more broadly tolerant Aloes, I don't really bother to amend the soil at all, but do prefer to plant on a slope or raised mound or in a built-up raised planter. My preferred soil mix is usually American Soil's multi-purpose mixed 1/4 with perlite and 1/4 with expanded shale, and the remainder with 1/4 existing soil. If the succulents are going into containers where the potting soil might stain pavement over time, then I prefer to use their Ultra Potting Mix with the same mix of perlite and expanded shale, but no existing soil. Be aware that all the mixes with organic soil components will settle greatly over time, and if you are planting within a fixed architectural planter, it is better to use a much higher mix of sand in the soil mix so settling over the years isn't a problem.

In short, clay is not necessarily the enemy if you work with it rather than against it, and if you can add soil to raise grades into berms, there is no need to haul it away.
I've found things like Aloe reitzii are very sensitive about poor drainage, but A. maculata, A. ferox, A. marlothii and A. arborescens tolerant of unamended clay soils if mounded up.

What is the current price of the Aloe book? I only paid $20 or so when I picked up a copy at Kirstenbosch back in 2002, but the exchange rate was very favorable back then at almost 10 Rand to the dollar.

Bahia,

Valuable points...

Just a quick observation.
In the areas where it would be impractical to do raised bed, can I just dig out the clay and pour in improved soil about a foot high and then place the root system ontop of the raised soil?(thus, lessening the effect of water sitting at the bottom of the root system during heavy rain fall).
These hard to work areas are next to the house and raised bed would cover a portion of the stucco wall.

p.s. By the way, maybe I should place an international order for the Aloe Book through Kirstenbosh Botanical. I am sure it would be more cost effective coming directly from Cape Town. :-)

Best,
Zac

I think that putting too much emphasis on winter vs. summer is an exercise in futility.

Few species are truly, obligate "summer" or "winter" growers.

As an example, I leave my large Aloe dichotoma outdoors, unprotected all spring, summer and fall in NY. It gets tons of rain. It grows perfectly fine. I keep it dry all winter, forcing it into dormancy. I do the same with A. plicatilis, polyphylla, Hercules, ferox and others.

In habitat they will grow when there is rain, which just happens to come mainly in the cooler seasons - this does not mean your plants will, or even prefer, to behave that way in cultivation.

In my opinion, what's more important is to make sure that your plants experience a distinct dormant period at the same time every year. In the "North", this would be the winter. The plant has to grow at some point, right? This forces them to grow in the summertime.

In SoCal, where summers are naturally dry, many Aloes and others assume the same pattern as in habitat. Dormant summer, then growth during the cool season when there is rain.

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