I have to admit, the Spice Bush Swallowtail is my favorite. My favorite thing about them is their underside...
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It's almost as if some divine being painted it with some divine stylus, the colors on the bottom hind wing are amazing to behold.

Great pics guys!

I love the flash of blue on the top of the wings near the bottom.

Beautiful, MissSherri!

Miss Sherry;
Can you go over again how to tell a male from a female spicebush apart?
Thanks,
Elisabeth

'Will do, Elisabeth - I love to talk butterflies!
The undersides of spicebush swallowtails are the same for males and females, at least to my eye - I would imagine that females' bodies are fatter, but I haven't seen any noticeable difference.
Male spicebush swallowtails are usually colored on top like the one in my picture. I'm not sure what color you'd call it - shiny aqua blue?
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Some males are blue gray on their topside -
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And then there are some that are blue green colored -
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I've read that there is a subspecies of spicebush swallowtails that exists mainly in Florida, but also in south Mississippi alongside the regular species, so it probably occurs all along the Gulf Coast with the two types mixing on the northern Gulf Coast. The main species is Papilio troilus, and, as I recall the subspecies we have is P. troilus var. maynardii, but don't hold me to it - I'm 60 and have my senior moments! :( And the "experts" may be wrong, it just might be an individual thing amongst spicebush swallowtail males, and there really aren't any subspecies, who knows? The pictures I've seen of the subspecies show a male butterfly with gray or green on the topside, so I'm assuming the ones I'm seeing here with that coloring are the subspecies. The main species would be the aqua blue colored males, which are most common here.
Female spicebush swallowtails have TRUE BLUE coloring on the topside of their hindwings. True blue coloring on the bottom of the hindwings, topside, is a marker of many female swallowtails - black swallowtails, palamedes, tiger and spicebush females all have it. Both sexes have mint green to cream colored lunules, those moon-shaped thingies around the edge of their wings.
Here's a female -
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And here's a picture of a female I raised myself one year, paler in coloring. I wonder if she was a female P. troilus var. maynardii?
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Just look at the bottom of their hindwings, and if you see true blue, it's a female.
Sherry

I looked it up, and suffice it to say, I'm very confused about subspecies of spicebush swallowtails. The type we're supposed to have here, in addition to the regular P. troilus troilus is supposedly P. troilus ilioneus (also called the coastal spicebush swallowtail) not maynardii - the word maynard is in the subspecies name of the south Florida tiger swallowtail. The website I got this information from says we have not only the eastern tiger swallowtail, but the south Florida tiger in Mississippi - huh? Maybe on the immediate Coast, but not here.
Anyway, I also found this site, which shows pictures of the different looks of spicebush swallowtails - the one thing that holds true is that females have true blue on their lower wings, topside.
Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: Spicebush Swallowtails

Thanks Miss Sherry!

Wow, that is confusing. I looked at the international lep site you linked. They have the 'ilioneus' picture next to the 'troilus troilus'. A U of Michigan website says the following;

"A subspecies of Papilio troilus, called Papilio troilus ilioneus, is the dominant type of this butterfly in Florida. The major distinguishing feature of this subspecies is that it has enlarged, light submarginal spots."

The pictures kinda show that but I wouldn't want to be the one to identify it. Mostly it just looks like natural variation to me.

The International Lep site also has this paper but it was way to long and late for me to read it. Maybe a little light reading for the beach :)!

http://www.tils-ttr.org/ttr/ttr-2-4.pdf

Cheers,
Elisabeth

Excuse the poor photos, but I was wondering myself about sub-species. I don't know if this is a female or something, but notice the brighter blue spots on the back of the wings.
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I chased this butterfly for several hundred yards. And these were the best photos I could get. There was overcast, and the Butterfly wouldn't stay still.

Wow Nebu,those even look different from what Miss Sherry posted. Are you in Florida? Then I would definately say those look like the subspecies described 'ilioneus' and a female. However, I am just learning.
-Elisabeth

Officially, for whatever that's worth, I think only the two subspecies are recognized for P. troilus now days. With my books packed for the move I can't look up the straight skinny on "maynardii" right now Sherry, but if you found reference to it I'd bet it's older taxonomy that has been superseded. If you remind me after the move I can look it up, maybe find out when and why it was changed.

Some color variation is probable even in an isolated colony of any species, but these variations are typical when dealing with a blend zone between closely related species or subspecies. Since every place that P. t. ilioneus occurs naturally so does P. t. triolus, the range of the former is all a blend zone and you will typically get a full range of variations there for sure. Since you've determined that the females are "true blue" (I like that moniker) with either subspecies and we know males can also be blue, the size/shape of the abdomen and the presence or not of claspers are probably the next most noticeable identification aides for determining sex. Doesn't take much practice to be able to tell the difference between male/female abdomens (especially if a gravid female), or whether an individual has a pointed or blunt abdomen. That later trait is quite prominent in Papilioniidae.

As always, great pictures gang.

I got the "maynardii" thing mixed up, Larry. P. glaucus maynardii or maynard (can't remember this either, and I'm tired of looking it up) is supposed to be the south Florida tiger.
Like you say, I can imagine that the two types inbreed quite a lot here, since they coexist.
I'm looking forward to seeing if they use my new spicebushes, which are bog spicebushes/Lindera subcoriacea, a rare type that's found locally next to pitcher plants and such. I may even make a bog in a (rare) open spot in my woods to plant them and order some pitcher plants to go with them. Of course, this is all easier to talk about than do - 'wish I had the energy of my youth!
Sherry

OK Sherry. If my books would have been available I would have looked up just "maynardii" (latinized maynard, which would be correct for a taxonomic name) and it would point to all the correct species it was/is associated to along with the particulars for each. Won't worry about it now.

I walked my dogs a little while ago and accidentally flushed out a female spicebush swallowtail. She had a lot of trouble flying, and when she stopped to bask on a leaf, I could see that a whole chunk of one of her wings was bitten off. Another spicebush swallowtail, presumably a male, then followed her to the leaf, and they both flew off. I hope they mate, and the poor thing can manage to lay her eggs on the sassafras around here!
She was pale like the one in my picture in the cage - maybe she's the subspecies.
Sherry

I found a spicebush swallowtail caterpillar's folded 'nest' on a sassafras sprout very close to the ground. Finding it so near the ground makes me think maybe it came from the above mentioned female - if a butterfly has trouble flying, they wouldn't be able to fly high. I made a picture of the nest, but I'm having trouble with my computer and pictures won't upload on Photobucket - it was a typical spicebush nest. I'll probably bring the cat in to raise myself soon.
Sherry

Sherry, Is raising the Spicebush Swallowtail basically the same as raising say, the Red Admirals? I know that you had told me that the false nettle should be kept in containers or otherwise kept in water, as the leaves wilt quickly.

So far I've only raised Monarchs, Black Swallowtails, Giant Swallowtails, a few American Ladies, and a Wild Indigo Duskywing (it basically raised itself...I discovered it after I brought a potted B. australis in on our back porch and saw that it had been on it awhile eating the leaves). I wish I knew which species are somewhat on the difficult side to raise so I could be prepared how to raise them. For instance, I know that you had said American Ladies are that way (I think you had said that anyway) and so instead of just bringing some leaves in off of the plants, I sat some potted Pearly Everlasting out by the pussytoes that the AL's where on. They crawled onto the potted plants and I brought them in on our back porch and raised them.

Although I would love to raise every cat and egg I see outside, I don't see how that's possible. I had a difficult enough time a couple years ago raising over 500 Monarchs. I've planted lots of kinds of host plants to get probably at least two dozen species of butterflies. If I gets lots of each kind, I think I'd just have to begin dabbling in each one instead of going gung ho on the Monarchs. If I'd attempt to rescue every cat and egg out there, not only would time be an issue, but I'd imagine that I'd have to have tons of potted plants to sit in a protected area, which I just can't do. You'd almost need a whole greenhouse just for that. You don't raise every single cat you find outside, do you? I'd like to protect them all, but I just don't see how I can.

What I want to understand is what makes raising American Ladies more difficult than raising Monarchs or Black Swallowtails. Is it because cats that are in nests aren't as adaptable to a new location, i.e. being moved from their nest to a potted plant? Or did you mean that the plants that they're on (mine were on pussytoes at the time) aren't easy to keep from wilting? I just wondering if the AL's are better off left outside on the plants? Perhaps a person could build a screened container that's open at one end and turn it upside down in a particular area of the bed of pussytoes and put the cats in that area. Then when they've pretty much ravished that area, the container could be moved to another part of the bed. Hopefully all of those cats will have gotten their fill of the plants and be ready to pupate by that time. In the meantime, I'm sure the plants in the other part of the bed acquired eggs/cats. I always worry about having enough food for the cats here, no matter what kind of cat it is.

I bought a few Lindera benzoin in 2007 online. They were only half a foot or so tall back then, but now they're 3-4 feet tall. I keep looking forward to someday finding cats on them. I think SBST are just the cutest cats with those eyespots!

Being that you've raised pretty many kinds of butterflies, are there are that you find especially difficult to raise for one reason or another?
Cathy

American ladies are a bit difficult to raise, Cathy, only because their local host plant, cudweed, doesn't hold up too well in water. I've got one now, and the cudweed is doing okay, though - sometimes it does better than other times. The ability of host plant material to hold up after being cut is the main reason for a butterfly or moth being easy or difficult to raise. I find that willow droops in water, so raising viceroys was difficult for me. Pipevine swallowtails are easy for me to raise, because my a. tomentosa holds up well in water. Same with black swallowtails that I raise on rue.
I usually test the host plant of any species I'm not familiar with before I decide to raise it or not. Nobody can raise every cat they find, unless they live in a caterpillar challenged area, so I'd never be that ambitious!
Photobucket uploaded my picture of the spicebush nest near the ground -
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Sherry

The other day I saw a healthy looking female spicebush swallowtail flying all around and through the multiple sassafras trees/bushes that were close to my garden, where I was at the time. This female had all her wings intact, so she laid many of them up high.
Now if I can just get some pipevine swallowtail eggs - my A. tomentosa and A. macrophyllas are FULL of new growth - and if a female tiger swallowtail will show up, I'll be happy. I saw 3 male tigers slapping each other in an upward spiral yesterday - they need something constructive to do, like mate!
Sherry

Sherry, Thank you for clarifying that about the host plants. You saying that your willow wilted in water is making me think that maybe I might want to just leave cats that I find on it outside and maybe tied a screen around the small tree. Of course, that's easier said than done considering that it would take a pretty big piece of screen even though the tree isn't all that tall yet. I actually have two trees but something broke the one off at the top last year. I still haven't had any kinds of cats on the trees, which is good, since they wouldn't have many leaves for them to feed on anyway.

I'm glad that A. tomentosa holds up well in water. Someone had given me seeds of that this this winter and I'm hoping to start some outside this year if the seeds germinate okay. I already have A. macrophylla that I've had here since 2006. It had a fair amount of growth last year and should really take off this year. I'm putting up new fencing for it (putting it up around the others that it has already been climbing on). Now I'll at least be able to make it 12 feet high, which I hope is alright. I assume that when the vine gets to the top and can't climb any further that way that it will just flop down and be okay. After all, how many people have 20-ft or 30-ft high fences like some of these vines are supposed to get!

I also started some A. serpentaria seeds that I had gotten from Rod Angeroth in the fall, so if all goes well, I'll have 3 different types of pipevine for the PVS if they ever show up here. It will be a new one for my county, but I'm pretty confident that I can get them here since they've been reported in some neighboring counties.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll soon get some PVS eggs since your pipevines have so much growth. I also hope that a female tigher swallowtail shows up like you hope because I'd hate to see thoe 3 male tigers keep slapping each other silly! ;-)

I enjoyed seeing your SBST nest and I'll be sure to post one this summer if I manage to get the butterflies to lay eggs on mine. I've had the butterflies here every year since I got started into butterflies (summer of 2005), but I just got a few spicebushes in 2007. Now that they're 3-4 feet tall, I suppose they could support a few cats, but if they want to wait another year to lay on them, it probably wouldn't hurt.

Cathy