I didn't mean the formal definition of "group". YouÂre right, that would be much too broad. Botanists who consider Milkweed and Dogbane to be separate families, place them both in Order Gentianales. The botanists who lump Milkweeds into the Dogbane Family are the Angiosperm Phylogeny Group(APG).(They agree that Dogbane is in the Order Gentianales, as well.) This is all new to me! Did you mean the APG changed their minds this year? And to get even more technical, yes, there are at least two kinds of cardiac glycosides in Apocynum cannabinum. Okay, back outside to get muddy again.

bandjzmom, that book is where I found it. But wasn't sure. I checked BugGuide and these look like many of those pics. I haven't found any big late instar cats yet or any itty-bitties, but various sizes in between. There's a bunch of them, don't know how many yet. I did a quick check a while back when I first noticed the damage on the plant, but didn't find anything. With skeeters all over, it was too hard to stand out there and really check better then. Yay! Haven't had these cats before!

Thanks Liz. I am in the stage now of trying to tie up or cut back flopping plants and re-edging my beds (which was at least a year overdue). I think you are probably talking about the picture with brown whirlygig thing in it. Those are similar looking to delphiniums but are actually tall bellflower. I started them last year from seed and they are flowering now for the first time. They are a real hit with the pollinators. The description says they are about 5', but I am 5'4" and some are well over a foot taller than me. Luckily, they seem pretty tough so far and haven't needed any staking even though they are in a spot that gets some shade. I saw at least one of the snowberry clearwings in the garden again yesterday, they are so cute!

Does anyone have any ideas on saving our tobacco hornworm moths? In November, indoors? We've been told by a butterfly expert that they WON'T eat indoors, and they don't seem to be eating, despite: * a hummingbird feeder, with official butterfly food, and we glued a fake petunia on the end of the tube, so it hopefully looked kinda like something they'd try to eat from. If they used it, we were asleep and didn't see it. They sleep all day. * I've brought in some petunias from the window box (amazingly, they're still blooming the day after Thanksgiving!) * I've put liquid official butterfly food in a clean washcloth, nudged one up to it, and it chose to climb further up on the washcloth, last night. (2/3 of his/her right wings are gone, so he'll never hover again.) * I bought them some Stargazer lilies, (probably not their proper food) * They're in the guest bedroom (so the cats don't get at them again) where there's a Mandevilla flower -- big pink flowers, petunia-shaped. I'm going to try mounting the hummingbird feeder so that they reach it from the Mandevilla pot, where they may feel comfortable, blending in with the soil. Don't know if being on soil is good for them, either. But what do I do with them? This is late November; they can't be active in the usually 40+ degree temperatures out there, and there's very little blooming out there for them to eat. (They came indoors because, as caterpillars, they were on a tomato plant that we brought inside when it was likely to frost overnight, and we let them and their 6 sibs eat it ALL up. Most of their sibs crawled away after we put the pot back outside when the weather warmed up, and the tomato was out of leaves). At least these 2 pupated in the pot and came out 3 days ago. They will probably die soon, since they're probably not getting anything to eat. Funny--as caterpillars, they ate all day -- except when they saw us watching. Eventually they lost their fear of us, and ate when we were looking at them. Now, they want out! Little do they know. Another interesting thing: wild moths do not let you pick them up. These don't seem to have the usual fear of me. BEFORE they lost their ability to fly, when their wings had had many hours or a whole day to dry, they let me pick them up -- maybe they remember something from their past lives. Anyway, we're going to crazy lengths to try to give them their normal (2-week?) adult lifespan. Can anyone propose other means to get them to eat? Thanks!