Wow! That stinks! My rental property has a HOA and they have always left it to the owners if they want to put in a winter lawn. I however will be digging it up and puting in GRAVEL. I hate gravel, but renters don't take very good care of grass :(
Good luck!
Are they going to pay the extra water bills?

Some HOA's mandate 'green' and not necessarily a winter lawn. Last winter a gentleman in Tempe painted his dormant Bermuda green with a turf paint to comply with his HOA. You'll need to check your CCR's to make sure.

The Southwest is still in the grip of drought. This can be misleading because of the above-average rainfall we had earlier this year and our monsoon rains. It is not unusual to have Âwet years during a drought cycle. While the SRP reservoirs are full, they only hold a two-year supply of water. The Colorado watershed is still well below normal and lakes/reservoirs on that system would need several years of above-average precipitation to fill them.

Most valley cities rely on a blend of Colorado River water (CAP), SRP water and groundwater. According to state mandate cities must not pump more groundwater than they are able to replenish by recharging the aquifer. This balance must be achieved by 2025. To cope with this more cities are relying on reclamied water to be use on landscapes and in industry. In the coming years water providers will rely more heavily on reclaimed and surface water.

The bottom line is  water conservation should always be a part of our daily lifestyle. Drought is more a normal fact of where we live than abnormal.

If enough of the residents in your community would like overseeding to be voluntary rather than mandatory, you can vote this into your CCR's or architectural guidelines.

Here is a link that might be useful: Seasonal Drought Outlook

Barbeehd,
aztreelvr is correct.
I live in an Association. I am a member of the Association. I am the HOA, as is true of you. You're a member of the Association, you ARE the HOA. The Board of Directors dictate or vary from the CC&Rs. With a quorum vote I believe you can veto the BofD enforcement of the CC&Rs. For practical reasons like drought, maybe, with a fight and convincing they can see that its not in the interest of the people and critters of this state that we "water the lawn". PS- I have a friend who overseeded her "lawn" with native wildflower seeds and it was beautiful.

I don't know what city you're in, but I think I would take this issue up with my city council representative to see if that 'mandate' is contrary to the city's water conservation policy. Some official muscle might help. I would not knuckle under to such a dumb idea.

Good luck - I'd be pretty bent, personally, but I have a low tolerance for that stuff in the first place, which is one of the reasons I live in a pretty mixed neighborhood ... hope you can change their minds. I wonder if there's other HOA's that you can hold up as an example? Like Aguane's (or her friend?). Might further your cause.

Well, you can quote me on this and use my HOA as an example to further your cause - the Dove Mountain HOA in Marana dictates that you can't have any grass in your front yard. Grass in back is ok, but they don't permit bermuda because it spreads so easily and invades other people's property. I'll tell ya one thing, having only a $22 water bill last month was kind of nice. I'm sure it'd be way more if I had grass.

Good luck!

We're also in Marana and our HOA restricts lawn to just a small percentage of our lot size and also only in the back yard. Very few residents of our neighborhood have any lawn at all and just like (aztransplant) I love our small water bill which has never been over $17 a month including sewer. We have a very small yard but it's lush with flowering cactus and desert plantings that bloom and also bougainvillea and jasmine. I think those flowers standout even more with crushed rock instead of grass and I feel good about conserving water. We do live in AZ afterall. Good luck (barbeehd). I hope you can change some of the rules of your HOA.

I have stated my disdain for HOA's on many an occasion and I still stand by my position. Beside infringing on the rights of homeowners, they always seem to come up with rules that seem absurd because their want and need of uniformity. They just keep adding to the the blandness of all of these "cookie cutter" neighborhoods that pop up everywhere. What happened to originality.

Unfortunately, unless you appeal this in front of you HOA board, you really don't have much recourse. I would bring up most of the the points that aztreelvr brought up and see where that takes you.

Enough, HOA's really get my blood boiling sometimes. Why anyone makes a conscience choice to live in one is beyond me, but it is a free country and everyone has that right. I choose not to.

{{gwi:391610}}

Do they require grass lawns, or can you elect to put in desert landscape? If desert landscaping is allowed, as far as them requiring winter grass for homeowners who have chosen to have property with a grass lawn, there's usually an obligation for its upkeep outlined in the HOA details. It seems odd, though, with the drought at that time that that they would delete the winter lawn requirement and not the summer lawn. If summer lawns must be kept up (with all the water they use) it seems unlikely that winter lawn requirements could effectively be challenged on the basis of water use alone. At the very least it seems as though the winter lawn requirement may be able to be changed if enough homeowners challenge it. Good luck!

Fight to win! If you get a tepid response at the city (whichever one), take it to the legislature. They *hate* HOA's down there. And if all else fails, go out at night and overseed the nutball board members' lawns with dandelion seeds. Leave a few pink flamingos. Wear gloves.

Call or post if you want accomplices (besides Tomatofreak) and extra TP! Sounds like a margarita night to me!

Sorry to digress.....

Susie

Hello there,
Me again with the over seeding of the lawn with Native Wildflowers.

My friend lives in an HOA other than the one I live in. I don't know what the repercussions were for her insubordination (LOL). But, I know the effect was very awesome. Very beautiful. I think their mandate was a certain percentage of a front yard landscape had to be "green" and if a lawn existed it had to be overseeded with rye. Well, she opted to overseed with 'green' (leaf) wildflowers... and it was great. Of course, her lawn will never be 'good' again due to the 'weeds'. In my HOA the b of d has allowed us to NOT overseed with rye and avoid watering during this drought that could last forever. ;-((

We (our HOA) tend to be pretty active from the rigid to the open-minded.

I know that in my HOA if they wanted to enforce the CCRs they could have someone come in and seed the space and REQUIRE you to water and mow. AT YOUR EXPENSE. Visit various Web sites about the push against HOA's, the fourth pillar I think they call it. Creates a fourth level of govt. Legislative , Judicial, Executive and HOA.

PS should this discussion be taken to "Conversations"....?

Okay! I've got TP and TEQUILLA!!
whoooooo! hooooooo!

I hate HOA's! Just don't do it! In the interim, just collect all the literature from Maricopa county, the local newspapers on all the negatives regarding winter lawns. You have plenty of support on your side.

An HOA can decide to winterize a green belt or a shared common space.

One important point that I used to stress with my ex-HOA is the money can spent in lots of other ways. New heat/drought tolerant landscaping, new lighting, etc.

There may also be state law on your side as well. Contact the Arizona Department of Water Resources for more information.

Here is a link that might be useful: ADWR

FYI,

Here are the top 10 reasons not to plant a winter lawn.

10. Save time No need to scalp the lawn, prepare the seed bed, seed, water and mow.

9. Save water Getting ryegrass seed to germinate takes a lot of water. Spikes in water usage are always noticeable in Oct./Nov. Once established, ryegrass needs water every 3-7 days. Dormant Bermuda only needs water once a month.

8. Save water quality Less fertilizers and pesticides will be needed. Much of our water pollution comes from runoff of these products from residential landscapes.

7. Save money Cost of seed, water, gasoline for mowingÂ.

6. Save landfill space - Scalping Bermuda creates a great deal of waste for the landfills, then ryegrass clippings to take to the landfill all winter and spring.

5. Save the air 2 and 4-cycle lawnmower and blower engines contribute greatly to air pollution problems. Compared to a car, an average lawn mower emits 11 times the amount of hydrocarbons: a weed eater, 21 times; and a leaf blower, 34 times as much. Cough! Cough! Wheeze anyone up for a little yard work?

4. Decrease noise pollution ThereÂs nothing like the whir of your neighbors lawn mower while youÂre trying to read the Sunday paper on your patio.

3. Save frustration Seed germination problems, fertilizer problems, disease problems, irrigation problemsÂ.

2. Set an example We do live in a desert and water is our most precious resource.

Âand the number one reason not to plant a winter lawnÂ

Give your Bermuda a break - Overseeding can be stressful for your Bermuda grass. In the fall, scalping the summer grass before dormancy doesn't allow for adequate storage of nutrients and energy in the roots. In the spring, the transition back to Bermuda can be slow with bare or thin areas.

Okay, okay, you say you have to overseed because 1. your spouse will divorce you if you donÂt, 2. your homeowner's association (or some other power) says you have to and you need a year to get the policy changed or 3. you just LOVE green grass. Here are some tips to help you be more environmentally friendly:

 Overseed selectively Only overseed if it is extremely important for aesthetics or functional use.

 DonÂt seed too early - Seed mid-October to mid-November for best results. When you seed too early, it is more stressful on Bermuda grass and warm temperatures (>90 F) cause more disease problems for the ryegrass.

Thanks to Donna DiFrancesco, Water Conservation Specialist for the City of Mesa for the Top 10 list.

Thank you aztreelvr
I'll share something. I work for a big global company and we have to write goals. For the last 3 yrs under "Being Good Citizens" one goal I've commited to is Water Conservation. I don't overseed my lawn and everything you write here is true as regards the savings. In fact one year my backyard lawn stayed relatively green and the sprinklers were off for months. Go figure.
-Susie D

Treelvr brings up a point I can attest to- DH insisted on planting a winter lawn for three years in a row. Each summer the tif had a harder time coming back around, and eventually I spent three solid summers rehabbing the summer lawn, which was a) small, and b)when we really need the extra coolness- in the summer, from nearly nothing left. Winter lawns are very beautiful, lush and green, and I truly loved them, plus they don't require anywhere near the water that the summer one did. But I probably won't ever have a winter lawn again- at least not in Tucson.
Plus, I really hate being told that I can't or have to do something. HOAs tend to keep the junk cars and the washing machine collections from piling up, but the totalitarian stuff is why I'll probably never live in a 'hood with an HOA.
I wish you luck- good people here have given you some very good ammo. There really OUGHTTA be a law... in fact I'd be surprised if there wasn't.

As an owner of real estate you have TWO choices. One is to invest in an HOA property the other is to invest in a part of town where the neighbors are considerate enough and have enough class not to let their property go to hell. In a place with as many dumpy neighborhoods as we have in Tucson and Phoenix your choices are limited. If you don't like people establishing and enforcing a few laws, well go ahead and move to South Phoenix or Guadalupe and live next to an astroturf lawn, rusted trucks, clotheslines everywhere, rusted out satelite dishes, ect, ect..... There are parts of the valley that are not in an HOA where people keep up their property but they are rare and you'll usually pay a lot for such property. Also, many of the houses owned in the valley are rental/investment property where the owners are focusing on preserving their investment and not having it turn into some methlab/crackshack/sh*thole so they go for the HOA option where there is some control as to the outside of the property.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud, not this again....

How about those Diamondbacks?

*grin, wink*

Susie

Barbeehd,
Do you live in Ocotillo? The whole concept of Ocotillo back in the mid 80's was to create an area that did not look like the desert. And they did this by using reclaimed water and still do. Thus the mandate to have 70% of your front yard landscape to be grass. Which is why I moved in back in '89 and am still here. I know many of the builders have been allowed not to have reclaimed water to there area (which should not have happened) but the rules apply to all anyway. So I say suck it up and plant the grass. I only pay like $3 a month for all my outside water, smokin. Now to say we are in a drought is kind of well, dumb. We do live in a desrt afterall thus always in a drought. As I always say if you are concerned about water in this state then you should give up dairy products. The water it takes to get a gallon of milk to the table is very high. thus no dairy for me but I have my green grass. My rant for the day

{{gwi:417653}}

Love it GT!

LOL, GT - a picture really can fit a thousand words in...

(*sigh*)

While we're giving up dairy products to save water, why not give up all the golf courses, parks, fake lakes in fancy housing developments and commercial greenbelts made solely to enhance our shopping experiences? They don't even produce anything edible and mostly exist for the purpose of making some big private company more profitable! Oh and we should give up all meat too, because it also takes more water to produce meat than grains :) Car washes and swimming pools suck away our precious water too for arguably dubious benefit to mankind. When you really think about it, humans sure have lots of ways to waste water....even while living in the desert.

AZAmigo, you have your opinions and you are entitled to them (no matter how wrong you are). However, you are mistaken in your assumptions. HOA homes appreciate at a much lower rate than non-HOA properties. Over the last few years, homes in HOAs have appreciated 23% per year compared to non-HOA homes which have a appreciated 38% per year. The main reason, although really obvious to me, is that HOA fees represent a cost of ownership.

Let me explain. Right now there are mortage products out there that are low enough so that for each $100,000 of your mortgage amount is equal to $330 in monthly principle and interest payments. So assuming you have a $250,000 mortgage, your monthly payment is about $825 per month (not including taxes and insurance).

Now let us assume you have a $100/per month HOA fee. That $100 represents over $30,000 of your equity in a house in today's interest rates. So you do the comparison--2 identical homes in the same neighborhood, one in an HOA and one without an HOA. Assume both houses are listed for the same amount, except in one house the payments will have a $100 premium regardless of the cost of the home. Now which house is going to go for more? Pure economics would dictate that the HOA home should sell for about $30,0000 less (actually this figure depends on how much you are putting as a downpayment) here to assume the same monthly payment (which is what a lot of people care about)

I have other issues with HOA's but this should appeal to the most basic instincts of money in your pockets and appreciation of home prices. These reasons should be enough to make most people get out of HOA homes on their own merits. However, it is a free country and people are entitled to make these choices.

Well Desertrat all I can say is that myself and a friend each bought the same model of house (same builder) ten years ago for $105,000. He is in non-HOA and I am in a HOA. My house is now at $350,000+ and his is at $275,000. So I don't think your idea is holding water.:)

'Go Redsocks' she says hopefully.....

'cuz we all know that the D'backs ain't gonna make it....

Susie

I swear, some people just can't take a hint, no matter how diplomatic you are about it. Perhaps we should just try ...

DROP IT, dude!
This is an argument we've had before on this forum and all it does is ruffle feathers - I've yet to see either side change their minds.

I live in a non HOA neighborhood in Mesa. Its a very nice place where people in general take care of their property. If anyone gets particularly neglectful you simply call up the city and file a complaint. The city has reglulations concerning weeds, junk in the yard etc. I called once on one of my neighbors and within two weeks the problem was fixed. The standard city procedure is to send a letter. If they don't clean up, they get fined. Why do you need an HOA, when property values and regulations are effective enough. The ability of some HOA's to evict people and hassle people about every little thing is complete overkill.

OKay, Okay everyone. I guess I have a talent for bringing up insidious topics (Moon Valley anyone) and for the record, yes, I am in Ocotillo and also for the record, I still don't want to plant a winter lawn and cut the grass. So thank you all very much. I will consider all responses carefully. May this be the end to this thread....forever.

LOL, Barb - everyone has to be good at something!!! We're up to at least three topics that seem to highly flammable. You've hit two and GT posted on this thread a pic of the third. Oh well!

Thanks for being patient while we rant on your thread.