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abc222001_gw

Chanticleer Pear Trees Zone 5 City Success

abc222001
15 years ago

My Midwest city planted two Chanticleer Pear trees (based on my lobbying) along my parkway after removing an ancient, huge Siberian Elm that dropped branches like most trees drop leaves.

This was 3-4 years ago and the Pear trees have been growing annually at an incredible rate - perhaps 2 feet per year. They receive personal care, but don't seem to require any.

Each tree had it's own challenges. Planted about 10 months apart, each tree had it's own mini soil climate. One tree had a magor tree and stump removed, with over-saturated soil and clay. The other tree did not have satured soil or a recent tree removal.

The difference has been that one Chanticleer Pear had too much moisture in the soil and experienced a bark split from top to bottom which would normally be attributed to Winter "sun scald". It will heal just fine, in my opinion. I believe the bark split was caused by excess soil moisture and other factors caused by replacing an ancient tree and growing too fast. Too bad that hours of research only yielded the "sun scald" answer and none of the tree answer sites covered the obvious (to me) issue - soil water saturation during planting.

Nevertheless - both Pear Trees track growth, height, foliage - everything - like they were personally chosen by the owner. They are like Sisters or Brothers. Truly amazing.

Both Chanticleer Pears (Cleveland Pears) handle Midwest snow and ice pretty well. This year, I still have 20% of leaves not dropped at New Years. Last year and previous years, the leaves dropped as expected. So this is an unusual year.

So far, so good.

Comments (41)

  • Carrie B
    15 years ago

    "one Chanticleer Pear ... experienced a bark split from top to bottom which would normally be attributed to..."

    The damage should be attributed to the fact that it is a pear. Nothing more, nothing less. Well, perhaps exacerbated by conditions...

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    youa re probably going to hear a lot about why you shouldnt have planted a pear ... i will le3ave it to the others ... sounds to me like it got zapped by a frost.. or a freeze ... any info aobut such from you .. is so ... it may have killed the buds .. an otherwise healthy tree.. and and usually will releaf ... how that all works on a ginormous transplant .. who knows... do stop scatching it ... once is enough ... give it 4 to 6 weeks ... what is your watering protocol ... how big was the BB ... bottom line.. only time will tell .. and you cant compare a transplant to other non transplants... nor even between such ... trees this big are field grown .. and when dug.. lose 95% of their roots .. and some are simply massacred .. since you cant really see what you are digging out ... but all you can do.. is give it time... unless your landscaper is willing to replace it .. and if he is.. plant anything other than a pear ... BTW.. what does he say about it .. ken
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  • quirkyquercus
    15 years ago

    They are still invasive, even in IL and instead of beating a dead horse trying to improve something that is and always will be a pos how about just planting a better tree to begin with?

  • lucky_p
    15 years ago

    Yep.
    I just returned from a trip home to central AL, where I once again viewed expansive 'callery pear forests' on the outskirts of Montgomery and Birmingham and points in between.

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago

    Hey, let's not beat up too hard on the OP. He either didn't ask here, or ignored the advice, but he is proud of "his" trees.

    That said, ABC, you will get little admiration here for the growth rate of any flowering pear - they are regarded as extremely invasive. I will agree that they are pretty for the week they flower, and for the time in the fall that the leaves change, but..., putting the same effort into growing a less invasive and damage prone tree would be better received.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    15 years ago

    hey .. he signed up the other day ... give them credit for doing a post ...

    number one ... good job being proactive on the forum

    second.. good job being proactive in tree planting with the city ... too many peeps just complain.. and never do anything .. i would rather you try and fail .. than just complain ...

    third.. take everyone elses opinion with a grain of salt ... there are those who hate pears.. per above ... and i like to garden under my trees.. so i hate maples, mulberries, willows, etc ..

    bottom line.. who cares what they think ... good work ... and welcome..

    and happy new year ....

    ken

    PS: psst .. dont tell them. but i have two pears on my property ... and i planted them ... no GW back then ... lol ... and after 7 years.. they are just peachy ... or peary .... but in my little slice of Eden .. if they actually do start doing what the others suggest... they will not be long for this life.. as i own a good chainsaw ... if they fail me... they are out of here .. the experiment will be over ... mine are Cleveland Select ....

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    15 years ago

    Don't look now, Ken, but your 'Cleveland Select's are just 'Chanticleer's by a different name - same tree. And the insidious thing about invasives like any of the Callery pears is one doesn't often actually see the spread of the problem until it becomes severe as in Pennsylvania, Maryland and parts of the south. But you can bet the birds, wind & weather, your neighbors, etc. are doing the damage. The sprouting of uncultivated seedlings have already been reported across a wide area of the midwest including Michigan, Ohio and Iowa. And definitely in Illinois.

  • abc222001
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Funny, I didn't think I made my original post in the "HECKLER" category.

    Good thing there are less than a handful of you negative posters who attack a new post. What you fail to offer is a better generic alternative or a reason to ever post to this site again. This is my last time.

    I will leave this site to the SQUIDWARDS of the Garden World.

  • Carrie B
    15 years ago

    Apologies if my response sounded like "Heckling".

    I was trying to be helpful in warning you about the tendency of pears to break apart. A pear fell down in front of my house, and it was just luck that it didn't fall ON my house, or on my neighbor's house, car, or child.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago

    ABC, if you do a search on this forum for flowering pears, or for Bradford pears/Cleveland pears/etc., you will get several recent threads (last 6 months), quite long, and quite impassioned about the invasive tendencies of flowering pears. I am afraid you just got the fall out from the recent "war".

    Mostly, there is little heckling on this forum, unless between people who have been replying to each other for a while and feel comfortable with "teasing" - however, strong feelings ARE sometimes written. Please don't take offense at the strong feelings expressed - most of the writers didn't take the time to find out you were new, and either assumed you had been lurking for a while or had been here for a while, so were aware of how people expressed themselves. You will learn a lot if you stay around, so please do stick with it. And please do stick with your convictions - although you may have to try not to take things as a personal attack, since it's usually NOT meant that way, just as an attack on what you SAID! There is a difference....

    That said, one of the reasons many people here don't like them is that they tend to grow just fine for 10-15 years, and then break up in a strong wind or under ice, which is what Lucky P, QuirkyQuercus and others were referring to. As well, if there are ANY other flowering pears in the neighborhood, the trees make lots of little pears which the birds eat and then spread the seeds throughout the area. making LOTS of little flowering pears. They are very good about spreading, and have become very invasive in some areas. Many here feel that nurseries should stop selling them, especially in areas where they are a problem, but they are a profitable tree to grow and sell, so the bottom line is still prevailing.

  • Iris GW
    15 years ago

    Alternatives for flowering/ornamental pears include Serviceberry (Amelanchier) and Hawthorn ('Winter King' is a good one). Flowering/ornamental cherries are also nice.

    Here is a link that might be useful: This link mentions alternatives

  • Embothrium
    15 years ago

    Yes, "flowering pear" is a hot button here as the Callery pears have proven to be problematical trees both as garden subjects and as weeds in parts of North America. Large production nurseries continue to feature these as well as other easily produced and too-willing-to-grow items such as Norway maple and Japanese barberry.

    We don't have thickets of ornamental pears popping up out this way (so far) but the foul smell of the flowers is all I need to make up my mind about planting them.

  • suel41452
    15 years ago

    Hey, ABC, don't leave!!!
    Your "Squidward" remark cracked me up - it's SO true! I'm more of a Spongebob, myself. Sometimes Patrick. But we're not ALL squiddys!!!!
    You "Pear Police" people are really hurting your own cause by being so nasty. Why not try being diplomatic & kind? You'll get a better response to your arguments, I promise.

  • Carrie B
    15 years ago

    With all due respect, sue141452, I just looked through the responses, and I saw many that were passionate, opinionated and informative. I didn't see the "being so nasty" ones. Where did you see anything "nasty"?

  • suel41452
    15 years ago

    Perhaps nasty is a bit strong. But you're shooting yourselves in the foot with such snarky responses.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    15 years ago

    And just what is snarky with the responses? Informing the OP that the trees are structurally at risk with age, have a shallow root system, unpleasant smelling blossoms and the very real potential of being invasive in his area? Hopefully these comments are just increasing his awareness that he may very well have problems on his hands down the road, regardless of how well the trees appear to be thriving now.

  • Fledgeling_
    15 years ago

    gardengal48, it was nothing that was specific but the thing did come off altogether as negative, more felt than seen. I dont think anyone intended it to come off that way, but i can understand and sympathize why abc felt the way he/she did in the response.

  • quirkyquercus
    15 years ago

    In truth I don't think we were overly obnoxious just that we made OP feel stupid and feeling stupid isn't a nice sensation especially when there are no supporters. But we aren't trying to make OP feel stupid just teach them that pears are passe.
    They really aren't good street trees, they're more of a home garden tree because of the small size and flowers and all of that.

    The suggestion for someone that wants to try tree that truly is "improved", that changes the landscape in a good way and has the potential to cool entire cities you might look into American Elm.
    {{gwi:327468}}
    Photo by: Joseph O'Brien, USDA Forest Service, United States

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    15 years ago

    QQ, that lovely image is yet another example of why we need to stop planting these pears in every empty planting space. They will never grow to be old, never cast decent shade, never bestow a sense of grace upon a neighborhood.

  • phyl345
    15 years ago

    now, please don't beat up on me, i'm the sensitive, fragile type ... but ... i have an aristocrat pear ... is that a callery too? ... my village recommended it for a street tree ... sigh ... on the bright side if it lasts 15 yrs. i may have passed to the next world! .... phyl

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago

    Phyl, ALL the flowering pears that are presently available fall into the Callery pear category, as far as I can tell. They may not be too invasive in Chicago, but are massively so in the south and the mid-Atlantic. One of the problems is that the original introduction was SELF-infertile, and so people thought it was totally sterile. It turns out that it will set fruit when another cultivar is in the near neighborhood (as will all the other introductions, with any of the others), so you get lots of fruit, which are too small for people to try to pick, but which the birds love; they spread the seeds therefrom far and wide. As well, it turns out that the growth pattern of the tree - upright, and with narrow crotch angles - leads to a weak structure - which tends them to break and fall/split in half with heavy winds or ice/snow build-up, as the trees get more than 12-25 years old. Because of the early perception of them as sterile, and because they DO flower and have decent fall foliage color, and because they are cheap to produce to a saleable size, they are very popular with nurseries, developers and landscapers, who continue to sell them all over the country. It's only in the past 2-6 years that an awareness that some trees are invasive and should NOT be planted is beginning to make its way to the general public - I think it will be another 20 years before it is a well-known and well-observed fact, especially in the nursery trade - where the bottom line still tends to reign supreme!

  • heptacodium
    15 years ago

    This is a subject that needs addressing here.

    If someone asks a question about a select number of plants, the response is more akin to school kids playing smear the queer.

    If you say the comments are well-modulated and restrained...who is saying that? someone who shares the same viewpoint? or someone who is deeply wounded that a tree they like is painted so vilely?

    There are a number of plants or certain questions regarding care where I feel sorry for the people who them, because they know not what brimstone is about to rain around them.

    I'm going to start to keep a list of plants and the problems, real or perceived, that are claimed to exist, and anytime someone mentions a plant, I'm going to inform them of the hassles and concerns they are about to encounter, and further inform them of the personal *K(# they are about to endure because of their choice.

    Anyone care to speculate how many trees are going to survive that purge?

  • mdvaden_of_oregon
    15 years ago

    One of the first replies about reporting back in a few years was a good way to put it.

    Destruction is just around the corner, unless they receive double the pruning attention that most manicured trees get.

    My guess is that the bark problem has nothing to do with water.

    Sunscald is more rare than sunburn damage in many areas, and previous sunburn may well have been the bark problem if the damage faces the hotter sun like sunset or SW.

    The soil could be too moist as well.

    M. D. Vaden of Oregon

  • suel41452
    15 years ago

    I have a suggestion for all you Pear Police. Work to put through legislation to ban the sale or planting of pears - now, THAT might actually be effective in making a difference. For instance, bamboo is illegal to plant in the D.C. area now. Do you suppose ABC or anyone else is going out & chainsawing down their pear to suit you? Well, THEY'RE NOT! Telling individuals (who like their pear tree and don't want your opinion) that their trees are junk is NOT EFFECTIVE. You're just creating enemies who probably plant more pears just to spite you. Like bigbadben replied after a similar post(and I quote) "I think I will swing by the nursery today to pick up a half dozen Bradford Pears and plant them in your honor."

  • lucky_p
    15 years ago

    Sue,
    I'll see your half-dozen Bradfords and raise you two dozen eastern white oaks, 50 bur oaks, 15 chestnut oaks, 100 pecans, 200 black walnuts, a half-dozen Calycanthus, a handful of Lindera, and a bagful of Malus coronaria seeds.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    15 years ago

    That someone would intentionally go out to purchase and plant a species - just for spite - that 80% of the population recognizes is a problematic invasive is childish in the extreme. One of the immense advantages to forums like those available on GW is that they are able to present this type of information to a much wider public. Every new gardener goes through a learning curve where they may opt to select and plant plants that are unsuitable for their situation. How much better to be made aware of this ahead of time so that better choices can be made? To dismiss this type of information out of hand or simply because it may not be couched in the most tactful of terms is just ignorant and irresponsible.

    It is somewhat akin to the tobacco industry. We all know (or jolly well should by now) that tobacco can lead to all sorts of health problems and even death. Although sales may be age restricted, it is not illegal to own, sell or use tobacco even though the vast majority recognize it is a dangerous product and avoid its use. Same with invasive plants. With few exceptions, no one is knocking on doors requiring that you remove what may considered an invasive for your area but through education and information, a good portion of which is now derived online, it is hoped that one will make alternative selections for new plantings or for replacement. Why is this such a hard topic to comprehend or accept? There's no need to take it personally - it's just a choice that was made without full understanding and preknowledge.

    As to 'bamboo' being illegal in the DC area........what type of bamboo? There's some 75 different genera and 1250 species of "bamboo" common to cultivation - are they all illegal? (btw, there is no documentation I could locate to support this contention). And was the Smithsonian and the National Zoo informed of this decree, as they just recently completed a very extensive bamboo planting for the Asian Trail exhibit - one of the largest bamboo collections in the country. It is exactly this kind of overly broad, uninformed statement that causes issues regarding invasive plants, not those offered in goodwill and with the best intentions regarding specific plants that are ill-advised for specific areas.

    Get over it. And stop being so childish.

  • Fledgeling_
    15 years ago

    Just agree to disagree everyone and move on. The pear spite planting was a quoted example, not a stated opinion by sue. Dont attack someone for quoting someone else's reaction as an example to how a overly strong response can turn someone off.

  • suel41452
    15 years ago

    Thanks, fledgling, at least you got my point. And I wouldn't plant a pear myself - they've been done to death and are too symmetrical for my taste. If they're invasive like kudzu or "stink trees" - ARRRGGH that's terrible but it looks like the "horse is out of the barn" now and there's no stopping the spread if what has been said is true.
    However, what's the point in telling people who've already planted them years ago that they are bad choices? They'll figure it out soon enough. Save your warnings for people who haven't planted yet and WANT advice.

  • Iris GW
    15 years ago

    Lots of people read these messages besides the original poster. These messages pop up in web searches, so you don't even have to be a Garden Web member to come across them. Therefore, it is important to convey this information because it is likely that people that haven't planted them (but who are searching for information on a 'Chanticleer' pear) will read this and hopefully reconsider their choice BEFORE they buy one.

  • rcnaylor
    15 years ago

    Well, why let everyone else have all the fun raising a few hackles.

    Off on a separate tangent, I'd suggest what I've thrown in for consideration on the "pear wars" a couple of times. Some of you act like your position is beyond dispute.

    There is an old saying "all gardening is local". Out here on the treeless plain where I live, the ornamental pear is a fine option. Certainly, even here there are some better options. But, it isn't going to get invasive here. If you plant it knowing its weaknesses and enjoy its stronger points, no problem. They have been planted here ever since I got here 25 years ago and I have never have seen a _single_ "volunteer" ornamental pear in this area. I planted four at a house I had in 1985 and every one of them is thriving today. NO splits. No problems. And, I have a Cleveland pear I planted at my new house in about 2002. Also thriving. Around here, if you keep them from getting chlorotic with a little iron, they make fine, well mannered trees on average.

    So, don't go over board in your rhetoric about how exclusively and completely "bad" it is. Yes, in many areas of the country, you are probably right. But, this is a board that goes much further than "local". Like with most plants, even invasive ones, there are probably some areas of the world where it would be a great option.

    Have I succeeded in joining the hackle raising party? ;)

  • radagast
    15 years ago

    While there are plenty of good reasons to not plant a Pear, on the plus side, some tree is better than no tree, and I commend you for getting the city to plant trees of some sort.

    Okay, they may not live a long life, but if all else fails, they make decent "starter trees" to learn on, so that's something.

  • Iris GW
    15 years ago

    rcnaylor, you make a valid point and some of us do consider the location of the poster in commenting on potential invasive plants. Some time ago, someone in New Mexico posted about identifying a mimosa. No one bashed that person about it being invasive although one person warned that there may be some "frank" opinions offered.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Prior message

  • spruceman
    15 years ago

    Invasive species of plants are a big problem. I have been concerned about them for over 35 years. The worst are the exotic vines which not only strangle and pull down trees, but also cover the forest floor and wipe out the native woodland flowers, etc. Among the trees, the worst around here is the Ailanthus, or "stink tree," which on the back of my land here in Winchester takes over so completely that no seedlings of any other species survive, partly because of its agressive reproduction and shading, but also because of its alleopathic powers.

    Compared to these things, it seems to me that the pears, and even the Norway maple, are relatively minor problems. Here in the Winchester area the pears are planted everywhere. I have some pear seedlings coming up in my field, but not to the exclusion of anything else, and in general I see them hardly at all around on the roadsides or in abandoned fields. I have been in the industrial area around dulles Airport outside DC and seen their abundance there.

    I think we need some kind of concerted and well funded action to try to get rid of the worst of these invasives. I can imagagine a time when all the forests will be simply choked with vines and we will not see any yong trees growing upward without being crushed by these vines. And this Ailanthus problem is really terrible and spreading.

    Sorry, I apologize to some of you who see the pears to be such a threat, but the overall threat from invasives in general is so great, and so widesperead, that I think we need to focus on the worst problems. I think that we need some real strong community, and perhaps legislative action to fight the Ailanthus problem and the problem caused by the worst of the vines--these will really destroy our native forests. If we make pears public enemy #1 I think we will be taking on too much and will get nothing done. I think it is clear from the discussion of this topic that we will not get everyone to rally around a "ban and destroy the pears" movement. But set up a topic about Ailanthus and the vines, and you may see more widespread support. With that support, maybe something can be done, at least on a local community level.

    --Spruce

  • spruceman
    15 years ago

    Sorry--spell check: allelopathy

    --Spruce

  • wisconsitom
    15 years ago

    Along the same lines as Mr. Spruce, I recently vented my disgust with a DNR forester, not personally, but over that agencies removal of large, mature plantings of Scots pine in some lakeshore state parks because they're not native. I see this as a waste of money and as a removal of some nice trees when all around here, common and glossy buckthorn is truly decimating woodlands. My point being that Scots pine will never be a true problem whereas the buckthorn is. Of course, DNR is working on the buckthorn problem as best they can also.

    In invasives, we must pick our targets carefully.

    +oM

  • suel41452
    15 years ago

    You're right - bamboo isn't illegal to plant - I got some bad info. It is banned by many homeowners associations in Fairfax County, though.

  • quirkyquercus
    15 years ago

    Unfortunately the problem with planting trees that are invasive here but not out west or wherever is that it is my belief that a strong demand for pears where invasive potential is little will end up in pears being shipped to areas where invasive potential is great.

    So essentially, RC, pears are not exactly a fine option in N.tx because it will indirectly effect us all like those rediculous brown mimosas.

    If you want to grow your own though you have my blessing.

  • Embothrium
    15 years ago

    Selections of PP. fauriei, ussuriensis and salicifolia are also being produced and distributed in quantity.

    Many kinds of trees and shrubs offered are vigorous, outgrow room available in modern small spaces and are even weedy in some areas because these same kinds suit the production and sales systems of contemporary commerce. A plant has to both appeal to the final purchaser at the garden center and suit the grower to become prevalent in nurseries. The total situation calls for tough and fast-growing plants that look healthy and handsome at the garden center. This same vitality can and sometimes has translated into weediness.

  • picea
    15 years ago

    Two points on this subject:

    1) We can be informative without being harsh or negative to those on this site and forum. We also must remember that the experiences that one faces in your part of the country may be completely different than what I face in my area.

    2) Over planting of any one tree can lead to problems down the road. The american elm is a great example. A list of alternative trees might be benefical at this point to. But there are few trees that can be planted as a steet tree that look as nice as a pear in the spring and fall, don't get to big and tolerate poor conditions.

    David

  • tlbean2004
    6 years ago

    Are these Pear trees still standing?

  • krattigernm
    4 years ago

    Are the pears,

    still there

    ?