Just another pic update. That melt hasn't happened, we got more snow actually. I took pics of the same 2 I have been taking, the 2 year old "late drop" live oak. The one with the black fence around it, I took with the zoom from the porch, I had taken my boots off already, but the snow helps to see it somewhat. The bigger one is good and visible with the snow background. I took the pics today. {{gwi:325166}} {{gwi:325165}} you can see we got quite a bit of snow. It was already snow covered, then we got more. This winter of course isn't over but I would say I believe these "late drops" are zone 6 hardy. I have 90% belief they will make it and continue doing well into next growing season, and beyond. When you want to (or can) Joe or anyone interested, add pics or whatever, no hurry. I think this winter has been extreme enough to have proven zone 6 hardiness for sure, with several -9F and -5F etc.

Poaky,

thanks for the pics, I will try and take some Sunday, it will be 60, should be nice enough to get out.

I was recently in Tulsa,OK (2hours away) and some of their live oaks still are green, others brownish or tops defoliated. I think these trees will make it also.

A couple months and we shall know.

Oh Joe, you are lucky if you got that 60 F today. It is 24 F now and it was 15 F last night. I needed a push to get out of the (gravel/dirt) driveway to go to the store earlier. I have front wheel drive, and a small car. We have been getting more snow most of the day. Well, Oklahoma is pretty southern, I am guessing weather patterns and surrounding mountains are why they get so cold in winter at times. I didn't realize how southern you are if you can get to Oklahoma in 2 hrs, no wonder your Q, Fusiformis haven't died back on you. I really am glad I have the "late drops" doing so great where I am. I will check on my friends "late drops" later on, closer to spring. She is a possible zone 5, or zone 6 with much harsher winds, she is close to the mountains here and gets much worse in winter winds. I planted a Magnolia Gr, wild evergreen mag for her in her yard, and it blew out of the ground over the winter, it was only 8 inches high, so I never staked it. I replaced it with one with only a couple leaves, for less air drag, and it is fine.

We had 60 F yesterday and today for highs, but we had a low of -4 F a couple nights ago. Nothing else to add good or bad, just plugging along here through this crappy winter.....sigh.

I'm in Dallas for work, but back in the Ozarks we have been in the 60's all week, but cold front coming.

Not to worry Poaky, spring is coming

No specifics, but we will be getting that cold front affecting us also. I will be impressed with the "late drop" L.O. 's if they have some branch die-back, but some releafing also, because this is a really aggressive winter, for lack of a better word. I would have never thought we would go below zero as many times as we have this winter, at least 8-10 times. Usually it would be a few times max, in the past 5-8 winters. My palms are likely dead, even with burlap covering them. I have some indoors that only go out in warm temps, though. We have had 50's and 60's this weekend here, but it's been raining, is now snowing. I must admit February has gone by fast, in my opinion anyway. Come on March! Get over with! I will start some plants (veggies) in the basement in mid March, maybe some flower seeds. I hope the "late drops" don't leaf out early and get frost bitten like last spring. Well, I guess that's it for now.

Poaky,

We didn't have all those below zero days like you, but it has been plenty cold and below average. I'm still concerned with the live oaks, but when driving through oklahoma going north I kept an eye on live oaks and although battered they all seemed fine. The smaller ones like ours were brown and discolored but older ones fine. So I'm hoping ours will releaf and be okay. There is no green on mine at all just a dark purple brown, most dried out and dead. We shall see. If I recall yours looked the same last year, but releafed in spring, am I correct?

If I remember correctly Joe, mine had turned other colors, but remained somewhat greenish, purple, blue, last winter. I have faith in our baby live oaks. I don't know about you, but I see pink/red buds under the ugly tan leaves that give me hope for spring. I may be misguided, and they will desiccate along with those tan leaves, but part of me believes that they will send out nice new spring leaves, (damn frost better not kill them) I am more afraid of bad weather after leaf-out. But, they dealt with frost damage last spring, not sure if you recall, Joe. But REALLY, if there is some truth to climate change, now that winter has been a really frigid BEATCH to some of us, unlike many past winters. WE, and definitely ME, must realize our yard trees have to deal with our zones winter lows, (Me, Minus 10 F ), and you 10 F - 0 F, Joe. I will update in early March, this brutal crap MUST end soon, spring is approaching DAMMIT!

Poaky,

I hope you are correct. Lots of trees budding out here, but this last arctic blast will make it 3 degrees tonight, after being 55 yesterday (sat March 1st).

Yes a late spring freeze would be bad. By the end of the week back to 60 degrees.

I hear ya, we need Spring now.

Looked at Oklahoma City temp for tonight, they are suppose to be at 5 degrees so only a couple higher than at my location.

We shall see soon Poaky, lets hope we have a good breed of live oak.

I will just add that we didn't get as much snow as predicted this past weekend. It was 8F last night. Other than tomorrow nights predicted 2F, we will be getting a mix of teens, 20's and 30's, maybe even a 40 in there somewhere. I will wait at least a few days to update. I want to check the "late drop" in my friends yard eventually, which is a possible zone 5. They are too small to see unless you get close. They are a distance away from their driveway. Hope you don't get any early budding damage. I thought my Rhody was going to get damaged, but false alarm.

Poaky,

It was 60 today and suppose to be 70 by Monday. By the time March ends I will know if my Fusiformis made it.

Also my Crape Myrtle worry me, not that they won't make it but maybe they will start from scratch and the ground again.

Keep your fingers crossed

Joe, We had it in the 60's this afternoon. I got to check on the Live oak "late drop" and my one Q. Fusi. The Live oaks which I posted pictures of above, the 2nd wintered ones seem to have some die-back on their top branches. They may need pruned down some. They aren't totally dead, but will lose up to a third of their top. If it wasn't for the last 2 nights below 0 of the last week and a half, there would be no top die-back. One of the newbies planted this past fall lucked out by slouching to the soil surface, while being inside a pvc pipe protector, most leaves are even greenish. I have a couple fall planted beheaded and leafless. One in the dog yard with good flexible limbs, may be all good. All of them have pencil-lead thick branches, no surprise there is some die-back. The Q. Fusi has all brown leaves with the top defoliated. The main gist is some of the "late drops" will put out leaves and live, but I will need to make new leaders on most, after the tops get pruned to healthy wood. The trunks even have buds waiting, so if the branches existing get zapped, the trunk shows ready buds. I expect to have the spring 2012 planted 2 live, but need corrective pruning, and maybe one newbie bounce back. The Q. Fusi is likely to survive, but with top die back. I think that even if I need to prune 1/3 of the top back on them, they are zone 6 hardy after this brutal winter. Most winters haven't had the number of -0F this one has. Unless we get the "la Nina" if I remember right that's the colder weather pattern, and "El Ninio" is the warmer, if that is how it goes. This will be what makes me cut down a volunteer Quercus Alba, or keep it. If the Q. Virg. "late drop" lives this winter, I will have to remove the Q. Alba growing in the same area. I can't dig it out and plant elsewhere, the roots are likely entangled with the Live oak now. Well, sorry this is so long, I will try to wait for another update, but I figured this was worth posting about, if you have any news I'll be glad to hear it, if not no biggie. You are probably busy, especially if you travel for work.

Poaky, what part of PA are you? When you say zone 6, do you mean zone 6 like around Pittsburgh, or zone 6 like Lancaster County or the fringes of Philly (really more z7 there)?

Hairmetal, I am on the Pittsburgh side, but more southern than Pittsburgh. I am about a half hours drive from Morgantown, Wv. I am in zip code 15480 under Smock Pa. I always get zone 6 for an answer on zone finder sites. It is this particular hybrid of Live oak, which is hardier. I have tried many regular Q. Virg. in my yard, one in the exact same area as the one in one pic above. The L.O. "late drop" are from the same nursery in Miss. where I bought the last order of reg L.O. which failed. I made a mistake and planted a few more last fall of the "late drop" and they may have not made it. Those who are doing good, despite some top die-back were planted in spring 2012 in ground and did great all last winter. I am willing to buy a couple more "late drop" this spring and try again. One planted last fall looks good though, it was in a pvc pipe that fell on it's side. The branches are pencil lead thin on the largest survivor, so I think more maturity will make it even better if next winter is anything like this one.

Poaky,
It's been in the low 70's here last 5 days, yesterday 80 (March 11) today mid 50's and rest of week and weekend in high 60's.

A couple more weeks of this without cold and I will see how the Fusiformis live oaks look. I like to see cold nights, until April as I don't want a last minute freeze.

Joe in Mo, We had a high of 62 F today, it is 26 F now. We have had some relatively high temps the last couple days, and cold nights.

I am trying some Acorns from Sheffeild's seeds, of Q. Fusiformis. I will be likely ordering more Live oak "late drop" from Mossy oak natives. Those I planted in fall haven't fared well, compared to those planted in spring 2012. I will be paying for the new seedlings, but I am confident in their hardiness.

Poaky,

60's -70's rest of week.

I picked some acorns off trees in northern Texas in January. I figured these might be similar to your late drop. There were not many, but a few are starting to sprout. We shall see.

The Q. Fusiformis var. Virginiana from Sheffeilds I ordered after ( I think) Hairmetal mentioned they are sourced from Louisiana, and stated zone 6 hardy on the Sheffeilds website. So likely have some lineiage of those from quartz mountain, which I THINK is mentioned on the Sheffeild's site to describe the acorns I bought. My friend which I planted 2 "late drop" live oaks in her yard, which is a possible zone 5 ( or 5b) Those trees croaked and got nibbled by wildlife (my stupidity for not protecting). Long story short, I will be planting her some acorns of the Q. Fusi var. Virg, AND 2 new SPRING planted Q. Virg "late drop". I am planting several of each (of the 2 varieties) where my 3 that didn't make it. If you are tired, I don't blame you for figuring "ok, whatever" in a couple months, I will have pictures, instead of typing, that should be more interesting. They gave me several acorns, instead of the 4 that I thought I would be getting.

Joe my last post may not make lots of sense. I have some acorns from Louisiana, which I bought from Sheffeild's seeds. I am sending a couple to Hairmetal. I planted some in my yard and a friends yard. If you want a couple, let me know. I will hold onto a couple for a week or so, in case you want a couple. It seems like you have a lot of L.O 's, but just wanted to offer before I plant all I have.

Hi Poaky,

Sure I would like to have the acorns, I can send you a year old seedling when it get warmer if you want.

How do we contact each other in private on here to exchange addresses?

Scratch that - just seen your address on a different post will send you out bubble mailer with postage, then you will have my address.

Mid April I will send you out a seedling from last year, don't want it to freeze in transit.

This post was edited by joeinmo on Sun, Mar 23, 14 at 19:23

Joe, Yeah the 119 Vail lane etc is my address. The seedling you will send me, which is it, a pure Q. Fusiformis, or a Fusi and Virginiana? Also, has it withstood this winter uncovered, or under shelter? I plan on putting it in a well drained area if it's a pure Fusi. I looked at my older "late drops" today and the biggest one seems like the top may be unharmed after all. The dog yard bigger one may have die-back on top, but my other dog yard small one may be unscathed. I'll be looking for your envelope. Those acorns I have left don't have taproots noticeably coming out like those I gave to Hairmetal, but are moist without mold, and should be fine. Those I am sending are listed as Quercus Fusiformis var. Virginiana, from Louisiana interestingly. From Louisiana makes me think it may be like my "late drop" in fast growth. Well, the "Late drop" are from a nursery in Mississippi, but I am not sure of the collection site. Well, let me know when you get the acorns Joe, I'll likely get your envelope in a day or 2.

Poaky,

I'm guessing Fusiformis late drop as I picked the acorns in late Dec,

They are from extreme northern Texas about 5 miles from Oklahoma border.

No they have been in my make shift patio greenhouse all winter.

I just sent out your seeds (3) today. You should get them within the week. Wait until May to send me the Texas/ Oklahoma seedling. I'll update a couple weeks later.

Poaky,

I will look for them in the mail, no problem May it is.

Very warm here, looks like we are going to get some severe weather.

Waiting for Live Oak, it appears that small buds are starting to swell. Let's hope it's not my imagination.

I heard your area was in (generally) the path of a tornado. Mississippi had a big one come through. Hope you are fine still. My largest L.O. "late drop" is definitely going to bounce back without any top damage. I see little pink/red buds on top. I am worried it may leaf out too soon though, we have been pretty warm for about 3 days. Of my other L.O. "late drops" I think I have 3 more that will be undamaged, but will wait to say for sure. Those I planted last fall (late drop) are goners. I will replace them this coming spring in May. It may have been that they needed to get settled in, and slowly get accustomed to fall here, instead of abruptly going from Mississippi to Pa, and facing our winter. Hope you avoided the storm and all is good where you are.

Poaky,

No Tornado here, just strong winds, pea size hail, about 3 hours NE of here they had a tornado in Missouri, but about 1 hour SE of here in Baxter Co. Arkansas they might have had a baby tornado.

Received acorns yesterday, planted, now we will wait. Thanks will keep you informed.

PS I picked some wild bamboo about 30 minutes from here just over Arkansas border, should do great!

This post was edited by joeinmo on Sat, Apr 5, 14 at 12:30

Great to hear you and yours are fine. My yard had endured some strong winds also. I am glad you received the acorns I sent you, I hope they were in good condition. I forgot to write FRAGILE etc. I hope they were intact. I think the worse element in my yard, is the keeping of favorable conditions of plants, before planting. The Live oaks (3 of them) which were planted a couple years ago. And one was planted a year ago, I believe". It is still pending planting. I just hope that I can eventually get back to my family's Oak tree seed planting. "Quercus Robur" Seed needs planted.

Poaky,

I have a ton of robur sourced from a tree with long and skinny acorns. They're a total botanical oddity. They look like mini cigars.

Email me and I can send three or more. They were in my hoophouse which had shingles fly thru it mid winter (plus) we had a brutal winter so I would find three that look alive and you'll just have to wait until they leaf to be sure. I brought them into my basement that same day but wasn't able to water any of them from Jan-Mar. Had a ton of plants occupying my basement.

Grafted a live oak from zone 6b in Kentucky (42240 zip) but waiting. May have one for you.

Dax

I am sorry the end of the last post makes no sense at the end.. I had been drinking. The still pending planting is because I need to order more,but need to wait until May, because storing a Live oak from Mississippi now would make it hard to keep until May here in Pa. The Quercus Robur planting, is because I was going to cut down one too close to my "late drop" Live oak. The my family's oak seeds, doesn't make sense to me. Sorry for being an a*s, on that last post. Dax, thanks for the offer, but I will not be cutting down the Q. Robur, and needing to plant more acorns. The Q. Robur is an upright growing tree anyway, but not fastigiated.

Right on. Well I'll have some other real unusual oaks and will email you, poaky.

"Cheers," :-))))))))))

Dax

Thanks Dax, Depending on the site needs of the unusual oaks, I may or may not be able to accept your offer. It's looking like I can accept any oaks that can grow in soil that may be slow draining at times. I have an oak (Live oak, "late drop") that popped up out of the soil, and I thought died, but there is a large swollen bud, ready to leaf out. This tree had rooted in my soil so good that there were roots in the soil enough to survive being heaved out of the soil about 4 inches, and still have roots in the ground. I had mulched it also, but the soil was wettish, and it heaved out. I need to wait a while to check on that and a couple other trees, to see if I can accept anything you have. It's nice of you to offer. My yard is getting full, but I may have room once I check for survivors all over my yard.

DAX,I will be ordering a couple more Live oak "late drop". Those I've planted last fall may not have made it, and I'll be ordering a few more. Those I planted in spring have done better than my fall transplants. DAX, I was wondering if I sent you an extra one, you would plant it in spring, mulch it of course, and provide some extra water. Basically, some TLC this Spring?Summer. If no rain water it. My Live Oak "late drop" have shrugged off -10 F, 3 nights in a row. I think that If you tried the Live oak "late drop" in your garden you may be pleasantly surprised that the Live oak "late drop" is hardy to zone 6 in Pa, at least. The "late drop" live oak really is genetically hardier than the regular LIVE OAK, (Quercus Virginiana) Southern Live oak tree.

Hi Poke,

The live oaks I grafted have gone thru -18 twice I believe. I grafted them onto floodplain quercus macrocarpa. The theory with the floodplain seed I used from The Wabash Valley of Illinois is that these acorns 'likely' have been carried (they float) along the Wabash River and they grow in extreme conditions of wet soils very-well. They also grow in upland areas of drought too. It's kind of the perfect understock if you were to ask me.

I'll be planting one of these grafts but still all of my grafted oaks are waiting for more heat units to pop. I have one pecan graft and a total of 30 oaks + 6 other pecans waiting yet dormant. I'd like to send one of these grafts to you. I think I grafted 7-9 of them and I was real happy with 5 I think, after I had put away the knife.

And my other seedlings range from Quercus libani to cerris to haas, aliena, and some more common ones + not many but a few crosses such as: marlandica x nigra, laceyi x stellata, rubra x phellos, cerris x libani. And I grew some zone 8-9 oaks of Mediterranean origin, too.

Will be in touch. Very slow right now w/2% or so popped.

Dax

Poaky, any leaf out on your live oaks yet?

To Joe and DAX. Dax if one of my seedling Late drop L.O. doesn't make it. I can take you up on your offer. Joe, my favorite "late drop" L.O. Has swollen pink buds. My other 2 (dog yard) Late drops, are showing enough bud for me to confidently deem them "still alive". There are 2 more in the front lawn that I THINK will be fine because they are holding onto their tan leaves. If they were dead the whole trunk would be desiccated, like a couple of these trees in my yard look. I however am glad they aren't leafing out yet. If they wait until May 13 or 14, Last years last frost date, that would be perfect. My area is usually til Mothers Day,( May 11th) being the last frost, but last spring I had leafout, and frost-kill. Joe my Quercus Fusiformis from "Oaks of the wild west" is very disappointing. It is very slow growing, and some critter ate some of it's top. I want to get rid of it. It is no taller than when I first planted it, in 2012 winter. It is shorter than when I first planted it, due to top die-back. It is brown/tan leaved. I want to chop it down. It is soooooo slow growing, and pales in comparison to the Late drop l.O.. I have planted some Live oak acorns from Sheffeilds seeds. I sent some to Hairmetal and another garden webber, sorry I can't remember, Was It you Joe? Sorry, I can't recall. I saw one of my mom's cats digging where I sowed an acorn from Sheffeild's seeds. Well, Dax I am glad that you have the live oaks grafted onto a root system that can handle wet soil, but I am worried about suckering from the roots. Have you seen that happening with your seedlings, or is it too soon to know what to expect? Well, Dax, give me about a couple weeks or more, depending on the conditions here, and I am hoping to be able to tell you if I can use your Live oak with Q. Macrocarpa roots. You (DAX) Gave me a Quercus Macrocarpa last fall. Is it adapted to wettish soil? I was wondering, because I cut grass today in my yard, and cut around a seedling, which I think is from a Q. Macrocarpa acorn, which you sent me. I AM SURE it is from DAX, but wondered if you DAX remember if it is a variety that likes moist soil. If you can't recall if the Q. Macro was from a moist-loving parent, and etc. That's okay. If I don't get any response from Anyone, I will be ordering more "late drop" L.O. from Mossy oak Natives. I will be ordering a few at least anyway. My best friend is in zone 5b or 6a. I am trying some trees in her yard. I will be trying Live oak "late drop" in her yard. The Magnolia (evergreen wild Mag) Which I planted 2 of for her is doing great so far.

Poaky,

Yep I was the other you sent late drop acorns to, planted but nothing yet.

We will be near 80 tomorrow and high 70's next few days so I expect I might get leaf out.

I got the three acorns you sent me, poaky. Unfortunately, none have done anything yet. One had a root starting, but it turned black and never grew beyond that.

I think Sheffield's might have gotten some old seed. Acorns are particularly short-lived in storage and live oaks particularly so.

Sorry Joe, and Hairmetal, I hope you get at least one tree eventually, from those acorns. I haven';t had any acorns from Sheffeilds pop up into trees yet either. But my surviving "late drop" Live oaks haven't leafed out yet, and I am glad for that. I need to wait until mid May, or a few days before to count out the acorns, and the "late drops". My friends yard has one of those acorns also. I think that I will be ordering more "late drop" Live oak, as they have proven hardy after last winter, if planted in spring. I hope the one DAX sends will be hardy in zone 6, as well as tolerant of soggy soil. Dax, if you read this it's good to send the soggy soil tolerant Live oak in May after Mother's day. I have an unheated greenhouse. If the seedling is NOT bareroot, I can put it in the greenhouse until after the last frost. Thanks for the generousity DAX. If I order too many, "late drop" live oak would you be interested in giving one a home DAX? I recall Joe offering me a Live oak, is that correct? Or do I recall incorrectly? I really thought that those acorns were good especially the one that hairmetal had (as well as me) seen what appeared to be the taproot coming out.

Sheffield's seed is usually good. But from what I've read, live oaks (which would include fusiformus, presumably) are the hardest of all to keep alive for any length of time before sprouting.

Hi Poaky,

The mac's I grew were all from river basin origin and do very well in all ranges of soil. It's easy for me to remember because I grew only (2) types: one a big & round acorn, and the other an egg-shaped & very large acorn. If you sift thru the soil you should be able to find which of the types you have.

As to suckering, no worries. Just remove any lower growth spurts from the trunk as the graft scion matures. I see growth from the wood at the base of seedlings but never from below the soil. If you do see any from below the soil, remove them and soon enough you'll not deal with those anymore.

You guys are talking about black root emergence and slow germination. No need be concerned. The root will regenerate (actually a more fibrous set of roots) as a result. I sowed 1000+ seeds this winter and maybe 1%-2% are up. Just wait before you throw in the towel.

Dax

Photo of large-round mac's;

Photo of egg-shaped mac's

This is the parent of the round mac's

Poaky - We had a nice stretch of a few 80' temp days and boom leaf out on live oaks, but very tiny so far. Looks like my Fusiformis made it and our top 10 worst winter cold.

Nothing yet in the acorns you sent but live oaks are notorious slow starters, so by mid May I will know more

Dax, I think it was a round acorn Macro, I doubt the acorn is still intact, the tree will be starting it's 2nd yr in my yard, if I had to guess, the acorn was round. Sorry to make you wait, but my live oaks haven't leafed out yet. Some I know are going to leaf out. There are others that I can't tell for sure, I think I see buds (tiny) and then I think, maybe not. The doubt is with the last fall planted ones. My favorite one is 100% alive and going to leaf out. Joe, nice to hear your Q. Fusi is good. Mine is the same size as it was the end of it's first year . I will be cutting it down, it must be a good percentage scrub live oak, instead of Q. Fusi, your Q. Fusi grows well. Mine is in year 3 and is about 15 inches tall. Well, from what hairmetal said about his acorn (s) they are no good, so let me know about yours. Mine are a flop so far. Well, that's it for now I guess.

I'm still waiting on the grafts, too. Oaks break slow and in conjunction with the landscape oaks, or, just before or, just after. My friend whom send the scionwood recently wrote an email and stated none of his grafts took and that the wood may have been no good and that he was going to go to the ortet tree to check on winter damage. I do remember very vividly throwing away several scions do to the streaks of brown throughout all of the cut wood, plus brown cambia. I guess I will wait and see if any are takers. Others I grafted were iffy and I think a few were OK but not 100%, healthy.

Dax

Poaky, Fusiformis like well drained soils, those hybrids you have might be okay because they have Virginiana cross in them.

If your Fusi gets too much water in the summer it will grow very slowly if it doesn't drain well.

Dig around the Fusi add a couple feet of sand/dirt mix 50/50 and it will grow faster until it establishes itself. Make sure when you add the sand mix you make a sandy path away from plant for drainage.

Dax, Sorry your grafts aren't looking successful. There's always this year, to try again. If not now in fall? I killed many Live oaks before I found the "late drop" live oaks. My deciduous oaks are almost in leaf. The leaves are part way out, maybe an inch or so out on several oaks. The Live oaks are slowly showing pink buds on the uphill L.O. trees. I thought that they were going to leaf out too soon, glad they haven't yet. I cut down my white oak which I grew near the biggest Live oak, in case the L.O. died. After surviving this PAST HELLISH winter, I think it is here to stay, as far as surviving my yard in winter. Joe, My Q. Fusi is in a well drained area. It is uphill in my yard.

Joe, I had to post the last post, and start another post. For some reason, I could'nt continue adding to the last one, oddly enough. Anyhoo, my Fusi is in a well drained area, but we have been lucky with rain for several years now. I would rather have a "late drop" that grows well with good rain than to cover up the Fusi when it rains. If someone wants the Fusi, I am not sure if I can dig it up easily, and how much shipping would be. Or if it would survive shipping.

Dax, I love that parent tree pic with the lady in pink by the tree. I could'nt post more onto the last 2 posts. I had to start new posts. I am guessing, it is because there are 80 + posts. I am going to start thread #3 of ,most successful try @Live oak. Ok.