Even though it's not your favorite, it's still very nice, Lora... no such thing as an ugly hippi, I always say! It's rather reminiscent of a species...

Hi Jodi,
Oh, it's not ugly Jody, just dissapointing. That hint of speciesness comes from the papilio backround on the Emerald side. It's just so watered down from the original look, sort of like a really bad reproduction of a known masterpiece....

It'll be several years before I will actually say I'm disappointed with something that blooms! The fact that you can do so says a lot about how far along you are in your program! I really enjoy seeing your bulbs in bloom, your new introductions, and your greenhouse! It must be so thrilling to see scapes coming up on the plants you've raised, especially when they're results of special crosses you've made! You definitely have a good thing going!

It'll be quite a while before I can post a photo of something from my own crosses... but in the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun learning and observing!

Thanks for sharing the fruits of your labor!

Thank you Jody, and a big old (((hug))) !

Those first blooms will make you do the happy dance : )
Just getting your first seedlings to the blooming stage, optimizing the conditions you are growing under, expending the effort & time, it's a well deserved reward.

Then, a certainl level of objectivity has to set in. There comes a point when growing space gets tight and you have a tray of stragglers, do you compromize the conditions for all by overcrowding or do you dump that tray on the compost heap & walk away ? I've hit the point where I can dump the bottom 2/3rds of a cross & not think twice about it. (at least for the big flowered hybrids)

Now, some of the more exotic crosses like PF X Emerald, I've not been culling. This cross only gave me 18 seeds & they all fit in 1 pot just fine. Then there is Ruby Meyer X La Paz. There are several hundred seedlings from that cross & I've not culled them yet & they are definately taking up way too much room. I'm having a bit of a problem wraping my head around dumping those,lol. It's a bit like starting over from the begining.

Enough babbling, do you have a particular direction you are breeding? Lora

Lora I'm at Jodi's stage - I couldn't imagine culling anything I grew from seed lol (still waiting to see my first blooms from last year's seedlings).
I was wondering if it's the same with hippi's as with daylilies. I had my first seedlings bloom last year and the daylily folks always say you must give two or three years to see what the flower will really look like and not to judge by it's first year blooms. Have you found that to be the case with hippi's?

As a veteran dog breeder, I'm no stranger to culling... it's an important part of a breeding program and must be done to keep the genetic pool clean and strong. Though it sounds like a cruel practice, it has to be understood that it's the responsible thing to do when we change the natural reproductive selection process. In essence, we're playing God... and it's only right that we do it properly. Nature culls... we must, also.

Culling plants will be a lot easier, and even compost plays an important role in the gardening process... at present, I'm only sprouting a dozen or so seeds at a time, and I'm doing this because space is at a premium! I need to re-think and re-vamp my indoor gardening areas.

This first year of collecting parent bulbs and watching them bloom, and then pollinating and harvesting seed, has been mainly a learning experience for me... I'm still very much a novice when it comes to Hippeastrums! I had originally intended to keep very detailed records and begin a breed file, but I must admit that I got lost in all the wonder and beauty of my bulbs, and was very lax in my record-keeping!

Next bloom season will be the beginning of much better discipline in the record-keeping department, and I'll actually start crossing with a goal in mind! I haven't thought particularly hard about what end result I'd like to pursue, but I have all summer to lay out a plan for next year.

Being such a novice of flower breeding, I still have a lot to learn... before I began participating in this forum on a regular basis, I didn't even know it was so easy to breed flowers! I just found out recently what actually happens when a speck of pollen lands in exactly the right spot at exactly the right time! I didn't know that it grows an extension, cell by cell, until it reaches the ovary and penetrates the embryo sac of an ovule! And I didn't know that once the two cells, that of the pollen and the ovule, come together and form one cell that then divides to form what will be seeds, it's called a zygote! It's all so amazing!

So, in short, culling won't be a problem... once I figure out what the direction I take will be.

I had terrible results breeding my cybisters, and most of this years seed is just hybrid variety self-pollinated seed. It gives me something to test out my growing set-up with, so next year I'll be prepared.

Lora, your crosses sound awesome, and I can certainly understand how it can be hard to choose keepers out of a batch of those seedlings! That would probably trip me up a bit, too... finally getting seed from a difficult cross you really wanted to work out, and then not having enough room to keep all the babies!

Jackie, I don't know for certain, but I would think breeding hippis is no different than breeding daylilies or iris... you really have to give the plants more than one season in order to get accurate evaluations... in dog breeding, we can only get accurate evaluations from mature animals, and that can take a few years! I would think plants need to reach maturity in order to really perform as they will for the long haul...

In any case... breeding anything takes a certain level of objectivity and responsibility in order to keep that species genetically solid. It also takes patience!

Hi Jackieo,
Don't cull from those Appleblossom seedlings!(if you do,send them to me!)You have a very unique plant there & those seedlings are quite precious.
If you only start a few seeds a year it's easy to find homes for the adults with family & friends.

Just like the daylilies it takes several years beyond the first bloom to really judge a hippi. I believe the Dutch breeders grow them on for 3 years before they are are even submitted for naming & I understand that can be a multi-year, rigorus undertaking.

Hippis can be unstable in their color & pattern due to temperature or genetics. Sometimes, they will throw offsets that look very little like their mother bulb. I have one right now that is a recurrant bloomer,pops a scape up every 4 months like clockwork. The flowers are huge,great light pink & white pattern,thick petals & very diamond dusted. Unfortunately it wont carry a seed pod for anything.So, I should multiply it by offsets,right ? The 2 mature daughter bulbs,still attached to mom, look nothing like mom & don't carry the recurrent blooming capacity : (

This is the first time I've been able to get all 3 in bud at the same time, with the same light & heat conditions & I will be able to show you in a week or 2 how unstable they can be.

Jodik, I wish there were more breeders like you!
We have a -Huge- pet overpopulation problem in this county & dog fighting to boot. And just last week, the Humane Society decided it will no longer take strays! I don't know what we are going to do, it's about 'cat season' & there is nowhere to take them : (
Culling is hard but you are right,there is a responsibility that goes along with breeding anything.

Keeping track of your crosses, try using really big tags : ) I cut up cool whip tubs & use a sharpie to record the parents, date sown, number of seeds. At 1 year I add the number of seeds germinated & refresh the original information. Tuck them down just under the edge of the soil. I also use a backup tag,same kind, in the bottom of the pot.That really saved my sanity after the storms of 06 :O
I do keep a notebook too, but it dissapears from time to time when a kiddo needs paper ;/. If you keep records on a computer, always have a disk backup or a hard copy.

I'll try & add more later, this is taking me forever to type, too fuzzy from meds. I did make those 2 steps down into the greenhouse today though, yippee! Lora

Wow, Lora, always something new to learn. I thought offsets were clones. Would cutting/chipping a bulb guarantee results? My reason for asking is that one of my favorite large bulbs was crushed, it had two offsets,which I hope have been saved (some damage) and the crushed bulb I cut up (with basal plate). I am hoping to get a "copy" of the original bulb from one of these sources.

Lora...hugs, hugs, and more hugs!!!

Sorry for being "absent" in here for a while. :-) The hippies are just demanding too much at this time of the year...early spring. Hopefully soon they will be placed outside. I am slowly starting to prepare them (waking up) one pot at a time.

Pink FloydXEmerald surprises me. Not a trace of pink in it. My Pink Floyd purchased last season finally flowered for me this year. It is a very lovely pink trumpet. Looking at this seedling, you won't even know that it has Pink Floyd genes in it.

I still remember that storm Lora. It is soooooo good to see that you have recovered from it. I LOVE your new greenhouse!!!

Thank you for the compliment, Lora... my husband began working with the American Bulldog over 25 years ago, and then about 15 years ago, he began working with a second breed... the Olde Bulldogge. We have reached our goal with the American Bulldog, and now we're working to get the Olde exactly where we want it. In the last several years we've produced one litter. We don't sell to the general public anymore.

The general state of affairs with all breeds of dogs is just deplorable! Every breed that has become popular has spiraled out of genetic control, and over half of the dogs out there shouldn't even be alive. It's a shame... everyone who has a male and a female of any breed somehow become "breeders", even though 90% of them know next to nothing about canine genetics! Just look at all the health problems most breeds have! And don't get me started on shelters and rescue organizations and why they even exist!!

We do the math, history and science necessary to produce solid offspring... we utilize every tool at our disposal, including tight line-breeding and inbreeding... we crunch data... we evaluate and cull hard... and that's what keeps our genetic pool as great as it is. It also helps to have a good eye...

If you can find a copy of "Gladiator Dogs" by Dr. Carl Semencic, you can see quite a few of our dogs pictured on the pages... we also appear in "The World of Fighting Dogs" by the same author... neither book is about fighting dogs... they are a history lesson in the Bull Breeds. We also appear in several other canine books, some about training, and others more breed specific.

We take no pleasure in culling, but realize it must be done to ensure healthy, stable future generations.

The same could be said of flowers... by culling the weaker and the unstable and the ones with undesirable characteristics, we ensure the survival of strong, healthy plants that produce nice-looking flowers that will readily set seed.

I'm actually glad to have some time to research the breeding of these bulbs... I want to understand everything there is to know about the history of these bulbs, and the breeding of flowers in general... before I begin a program, I should be armed with a little knowledge!

Oh this is all so interesting!

The 2 mature daughter bulbs,still attached to mom, look nothing like mom & don't carry the recurrent blooming capacity

What a shame they aren't like the mother bulb. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos when they bloom again.

I do hope I see variety in my seedlings. I had the image of rows and rows of Appleblossom clones lol. That wouldn't be very exciting. They certainly have different leaves/leaf shapes and rates of growth. Is it next year yet??? lol

Hi Jstropic,

You should have exact copies of your squished bulb. The unstable ones get weeded out before they make it to market. It -can- still happen that a sport will pop up but it isin't common.
Check your bulk mail again, I emailed you about the vittatums. You were in my bulk mail too.

Hellloo Maria!

How are those beautiful girls of yours?
I know about the time crunch, I have more time than ever right now but everything takes infinitly more time & effort! I made the 2 steps down into the greenhouse yesterday, the first time since October!

Yep, this flower was quite a surprize : O The first one gave me hope that they would be pink, maybe with burgandy markings from papilo. The color on the buds of this one really fooled me,they were very dark until they opened.The shape is fairly close to PF, a little more open across the face.

Bulb 3 should be opening in the next few days & it's totaly different than the first two : )
From the base outward it's green fading to white,then a band of Pink Floyd pink & a white tip. I can't wait for it to open!

Oh yes, the storms of 06 really taught me a lesson in keeping redundant records :O
Some of the plants that were flung out of their pots still had their backup tags stuck in the rootball : ) I origionaly started doing the extra tags because of kids,little buddies of our sons that had sticky fingers. Thankfully, Ian & I were able to fling seedling trays into the house before the roof gave out or these blooms wouldn't be here today.

{{gwi:395236}}

I guess I'm just determined, or maybe obsessed?(my family would say obsessed)

Jodik, I totaly agree.Working dogs are in very high demand right now and what is being turned out is deplorable. My father was a K9 officer, retired alive after 23 years in Gary central/south district in Lake Cty. We've watched GSD's get messed up, then it was the labs & goldens, now its Belgian Malinois. DH is a K9 officer as well & his work partner is a mix, Golden X Chesapeak Bay Retreiver. I don't know if there is any good solution to the current problems, both with working dogs & the pet overpopulation problem. Until people are forced to take responsability nothing will get better & it's awful hard to legislate common sense.

Jackieo, if you are still reading through my babbles,you will have plenty of variety in those seedlings. The fertile Appleblossom I can't predict for sure but I've gotten some mostly whites with pinky-purple streaks out the throat to pale pearly pinks that are very pretty. One thing I can tell you, the red eye spots in the throat will carry through many, many generations of breeding. In the pink "Peeps" color line those red spots still show. I'll see if I can line up some trays tomorrow to show the difference in seedling size & type in just 1 grex.
Now, I'm off to bed! Nighty night, Lora

OH yes, Dogs! After 10 years of searching for a new Gordon Setter like our lovely one we had purchased in ENgland 20 years before, I found a breeder who breeds to a 1940's standard for hunting dogs. Instead of the 100 lb monsters with houndy faces who need daily grooming sessions, this breeder is breeding good tempered, playful hunting dogs that weigh in about 50 lbs, more or less and have hunting coats. They have lively expressive faces and can play all day, or lie on the couch all day depending on what you want to do! My puppy should be born within the week and I am so excited!

How great would it be if more breeders went back to the standards before they got too focused on looks. (And beleive me,the hunting Gordons have far more appealing faces then the big beauty queens. Without that mischeivious loving sparkle in their eyes, they are not the same kind of dog at all!

BY the way, my puppy will Be "Jospehine, the Flying Machine"
And I should have her home here in early June! Expect pictures!

Lora - First of all, I can't wait to see photos of your blooming results! I gotta tell you... I've learned so much reading your past posts. I've even saved some of your information in text files for future reference. I'm so glad you documented and shared some of your trials, such as the post you did on breeding doubles... that was spectacular! I saved that one in a text file, and "borrowed" your corresponding photos. Excellent learning tools! You could easily write a book with all the first-hand knowledge you've acquired, and it would most likely sell quite well!

I see you as a very strong, determined woman... you've obviously been through quite a bit of bad luck lately... and yet, here you are, sharing your hard work with those of us just beginning to learn. I can sympathize quite well with your recent run of poor luck... my husband and I have had a black cloud overhead for several years, and it seems that for every step we make forward, we're pushed at least four steps back! We lost everything in a house fire, I was diagnosed with Lupus, we were in a horrible car accident, and those are just the tip of the iceberg we keep bumping into. But, we keep pushing forward, knowing that black cloud can't last forever! You seem determined not to let a few bad things get in the way of life, and I admire you for it!

I also admire your Father and Husband for working in their chosen field, and especially in that area of the city! Having lived in Chicago for a few years, I know what Gary is like. It's next to impossible to find a really good working dog, regardless of the breed. What's mostly available now are genetically watered down, unstable, unhealthy versions of what could be found in the 80's, before they began appearing on tv and in movies, and everybody wanted to line their pockets with quick cash by breeding anything to anything. If only common sense and responsibility reigned... if only! And the only way to regulate breeding is to do the one thing that we don't want... get the government involved. I can only imagine the problems we'd have if breeder laws were passed! There are too many uniformed personnel out there right now that can't tell one breed from another! I agree that a decent solution doesn't exist at this time. It's such a shame...

Your back-up tag idea is a good one... I never would have thought to place a tag in the bottom of the pot before planting. What type of marker do you use that can withstand the water and fertilizers and such, and still be legible? Will a Sharpie work? I'm having trouble keeping legible tags on my garden plants... one winter, and I can't read any of the names!

Well... I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your work... genetics is a very interesting subject to me, and seeing the outcome of one seed pod and comparing the offspring is an amazing thing!