This is my first shot at it to. I want this one to go right,I REALLY want to grow this! :) I am afraid I may sow it too late for my zone and had originally planned on starting them under lights soon,I read you don't want to start them to early either,because they do grow so fast,so I put them on the back burner and their envelope came up today with seeds I should sow around now inside.But when I looked at the space I have left, knowing I still have a bunch of peppers to get started,I know I am not going to have the space! :( I really wanted them to get started a little sooner than May. If no one has any advice on them for our zones,than I will start them in jugs and bring them in every night. They are worth the effort! :) Good Luck on yours and report back,I would love to hear your results. :) ~Angie

Scot, I'm doing the same thing. I love my 'Meader' American persimmon, but the fruits from Americans are really very different from the Asian -- like the difference between a date and a mango in texture and culinary use, IMO. I'm going to protect mine the way Artictropic protects his awesome palm trees in the mountains of North Utah -- foamboard structures with a few cfc lights for warmth. Go to the Palms and Cycads forum and look at his pictures on some of his numerous posts. Truly awesome to see how well he overwinters palms in a Zone 4 climate with lows as cold as -45 degrees. The only concern I have doing this is tht I've always had a LOT of problems with voles getting into my structures and under mulch and destroying things, so I have to do a lot of vole proofing as well -- right now, the plants are in pots, but I guess I'm going to plant them into a cylinder of hardware cloth, and then cover the soil and trunks with the same. Next year, though, I'm going to overwinter them in pots in the barely heated garage one more year to get some size on them before throwing them to the mercy (or lack thereof) of winter in Michigan.

hi,cottage cheese, When I was planting backyard trees in NJ I went with 16' centers - I think air circulation is extremely important in humid climates. Also you will need plenty of room to access the trees for pruning, spraying, etc. good luck, ~emmers

understand.. conifers are trees ... and no tree stops growing at some magical height .... most estimates with conifers are at ten years.. presume at 20.. they will be twice as big ... before i forget... do all your planning from the chairs ... the height you will be sitting there ... there is a big difference between what you see standing vs sitting ... back to the lesson ... take any common name.. and find the latin name ... the websites with the best info.. ALWAYS use the latin ... and then look for the annual growth rate ... this will tell you how much it should grow every season ... and then you just multiply by the decades .... i will do this one for you ... first baby blue spruce: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=baby+blue+spruce&ia=web the 4th link there takes you to this if you click on the right link there: https://www.babybluespruce.com/baby-blue bullet point two says: The growth rate i.e: the rate of extension of the leader, is slower in the first two to three years and increases every year until at approx. three feet tall growth becomes similar to other blue spruce types soooo .. in 20 or thirsty years.. this will be a telephone pole ... it is ONLY a seed source cultivar for its blue color ... this is how i look for future potential .. note the latin name: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=picea+pungens+baby+blue&iax=images&ia=images whass said all this ... now.. on the other hand.. there is a DWARF variation on the theme named baby blue eyes ... dwarf means it has a reduced annual growth rate.. so over the same decades.. it will end up smaller ... it appears to be a plant from the huge wholesaler monrovia.. note the first thing they mention.. is its slower growing ... that is why that name was mentioned above: https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/3634/baby-blue-eyes-spruce/ and here is future potential : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=picea+pungens+baby+blue+eyes+ACS&t=ffsb&iax=images&ia=images so thats how to research conifers .. and frankly.. and other NAMED plant hit send now before it gets ruined ken