Arktrees:

I have heard, but I can't really confirm it, that oaks don't have much root growth after leaf fall, which makes them not quite so good for fall planting as some other kinds of trees. But if you get a guarantee, I would go ahead.

My favorite oak is the Q. alba, but the color is not as reliable as the scarlet. But at its best, it is just as good. But I have seen a lot of white oaks that never really color much. But even the scarlet oaks can disappoint.

If you don't mind starting small, you can get oaks of several kinds from Musser Forests--bareroot. I got 5 red oaks and 5 scarlet oaks and planted them last spring. Actually I ordered bundles of five, but each bundle had six. I had 100% survival initially, but we had a terrible drought here, and I lost two of the scarlet oaks when I got behind with my watering. Of course I will water again during any dry spell we have this coming year.

--spruce

Cone-shaped B&B is better, and agreed with spruce that you want a spring planting - esp for much of the red oak group. I'm a westerner so not many of the red oak group out here so not much practical experience.

Dan

Good topic!
I have always been too chicken to use scarlet oak myself.
Consider this a bump.

Spruce/Dan, I was not aware that Oak roots may not grow in winter (being an Oak newbie and all), so I went looking. See the attached research paper from New York state that actually used Scarlet Oak in their trails. Roots did stop growing in winter. And transplanting time made big differences in survival.

In the attached publication note that early November fall planting, and April plantings resulted in 100% survival of bare rooted Scarlet oak trees. Interesting hypothesis about soil temp at time of planting and it's effects on water uptake and survival. Our current soil temperatures are still in the mid-50's (according to a map I found), so that would seem favorable. Hmmmmm the plot grows more complex.

Thoughts?

Thanks for your time,
Arktrees

Here is a link that might be useful: Transplanting Scarlet Oak

I would go smaller, easier to make sure the roots aren't tangled. I don't have any scarlet oaks but if they're anything like Northern red you will be surprised how fast they grow.If your worried about transplanting get some seed, Schumachers has scarlet oak seed, or the place of your choice.Unless you want something big like right now.

Poaky,
I actually have a few Scarlet Oak acorns I collected from a tree on the University of Arkansas campus. However these will go to growing trees that I give away to the people around me. One of the issues with Scarlet Oak is that they aren't that easily found outside of acorns or small seedlings. I know where I can get seedlings, but the problem with those is that due to the nature of their biology, they tend to sit for a few years developing a more extensive root system (or so says multiple sources documenting their life development). Once they get going up, by all accounts they grow pretty quickly, but that may be a while. These 2" caliper trees, are all that I have found available locally. One other place tells me they might be able to get them, but when we talked to them, they thought that Northern Red Oak was the same thing as Scarlet, therefore I don't have that great of confidence in them to get the right tree. At least with the 2" caliper I'm sure they are correct species, and since I have seen their fall color, know that they can color well. If they didn't look so apparently healthy, I wouldn't consider them due to reputation.

Arktrees

Sigh. Last July we made recommendations to improve the Journ Arbor format to expand the framing to make it more operational and less atomistic research, and I hope the recommendations make it to policy. I guess it depends upon if they want their audience to remain small.

Nonetheless, the Summary states Trees which cannot normally be successfully transplanted in late spring or early fall, like Turkish hazelnut and scarlet oak, have only a small window of opportunity for fall transplanting.

Scarlets and the red oak group have certain physiological attributes that make fall planting problematic, and the onset of cold ground complicates meeting the conditions that scarlets and red oak group need to take up water.

IOW: it is soil temp, not calendar day that you need. Don't know what your weather is doing as much of Ark is very dry, and much easier to control environment in spring.

Dan

Dan,
Thanks for the info. I'm just looking for available information. Not questioning you, just looking for everythign I can find to build a better picture. Yes we are in a drought. While not officially listed as being in drought, functionally we are. We have had something within reason of "normal" rainfall, but it's been coming in bursts, and then nothing for weeks. We got 5.25" rain in one night in early July, after a month of nothing, followed by nothing appreciable until Sept. Dan, I truly appreciate your input. I have a plant science background, so reading research papers does not deter me in the least, just finding them is the biggest issue.

Thanks for your time,
Arktrees

Ark:

I just turned in an abstract for a policy paper where I purposely used a Problem: Takeaway format rather than the old-school way and I'm working on another one now, so maybe I'm ranting a bit because old-school isn't working.

Anyway, when I look at the Palmer Drought Index, most of Ark is very dry,

so the chances are your environmental conditions are risky for fall transplant this year. This meteorological pattern may persist into next year as well, so caution is warranted there whatever you do. Extra-large watering well is almost a requirement for establishment.

Dan

Dan,
No offense was taken. I long ago recognized that while I don't know you personally, from your posts I know that you are a professional in the field. I was just clarifying so that you know your help in this forum is appreciated.

As for weather, yeap, La Nina, though it is showing signs of weakening in the central Pacific. Probable won't help much though till spring even if the trend continues.

Thanks again,
Arktrees

Spruceman,
Couple of questions if you please. The Scarlet Oaks you got from Musser, were they the 4 yr bare root trees? Assuming this was what you brought, can you give me some ideal of the size of the root system? Basically I'm considering buying a bundle and putting them in grow-out pots for a growing season to be used for another purpose other than my own yard. I have to make sure I get the appropriate size container. Also when did you have them delivered to you?

Thanks for you time,
Arktrees