We bought a flame-throwing weeder this summer when we were going crazy in our first season of fighting weeds organically. I'm developing/landscaping a half-acre yard and orchard on a slope -- lots of work. I hire a group of six high school boys. They are great workers, and love the flame-throwing weeder (and riding mower/tractor). When a fire started in the weeds under the gazebo, all work stopped and great excitement ensued; boys raced from all parts of the yard to witness the event. The only woman present had to remind them the water hydrant was a scant 12" from the gazebo: TURN ON THE WATER! The flame thrower makes the 4000 sq ft of graveled area we have in various pathways and patios look great -- after about 8 hours of labor, and for about a week! I'm quite disappointed in the efficiency and effectiveness of this device. We pull all large weeds that pull easily, and spot burn remaining weeds, not until they are brown and dried, but just until the edges of the leaves turn black. We do not bother to pull out the dying weeds; they dry up and flake off and away. Several weeks separate treatments, so any weed whose roots are not killed grows back nice and green. We're going to try treating the same area 4-5 days apart, and see if the effectiveness goes up. But what to do about all the seeds that blow in? Corn meal gluten, so far, isn't doing anything (does one need to wet it to activate it?). We do have landscape fabric under the gravel; I'm quite sure it is not being burned. To Rachel Beagan, how is your hillside of perennials now? Did you get control of the weeds and grasses growing in amongst the plants? I tried to turn a grassy area into a shrub bed about 15 years ago, and lost the intense battle against the grasses reclaiming the area. I didn't know at that time about sheet mulching with cardboard under the wood chips. I have now found that killing the grasses and weeds first by covering with thick cardboard, and THEN planting, then surrounding the shrubs with new cardboard and 3-4" of wood chips gives a much better result. I find, though, that the cardboard has to be replaced about twice yearly (rake away the decomposing wood chips, put down fresh cardboard, and cover with old and fresh wood chips) to keep the weeds away. A lot of work, but gives a better result than constant weeding, in my opinion. Better yet is to take out the sod (also a LOT of work), then plant and cardboard and wood chip. Bottom line for me is that weeds are here to stay; get used to it. I'm sure open to any reports of vanquished weeds in large areas, and how that was accomplished.

I'm afraid you'll be in for more problems since sorrel will survive fires. I've posted a link for you which is a good read on this pest. I have it too and simply keep at it trying to get as much root as possible since they 'run'. Mulching has helped in my case as well as improving the soil. More humous and less acidity really help. In our Hosta gardens they don't exist. The big difference is the soil quality. Here is a link that might be useful: Sorrel.

I spent most of the afternoon today trying a different approach with weed control... I went around the yard with my pruning shears and every small tree seedling or poison ivy vine or whatever I didn't want that wouldn't pull up easily (wore part of the skin off the middle finger on my right hand yanking too hard on some of them) got clipped a few inches above the ground, then immediately "painted." I had the cover to my bottle of 42% concentrate glyphosate with a little poured in the bottom and one of those 1" sponge paint brushes in it, well soaked. After cutting each plant, I simply liberally dabbed the bare "trunk" with that sponge, then went on to the next one... must have done well over 100 plants that way... No danger of overspray or anything that way... direct application to only what you want, and I can guarantee you it WON'T come back. I also cut down my almost-full-grown mimosa yesterday (trunk was about 8" thick) and took a paper towel I'd been using the same way with some other plants in the back yard (a smaller mimosa and a few unwanted tulip poplar volunteers) and draped it over the stump... and since it wasn't still as damp as I'd have liked, I poured a bit more in the cap and just poured that across the top of the paper towel on my diagonal stump cut, so it could soak in and slowly soak down the towel. I've used this method before, but never with this many plants at once. Works well, no risk of starting a fire, and unlike the torch thing, I can guarantee you this will KILL THE ROOT. Happy Weedkilling! Jeff

See here: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/vinegar.html The upshot is, vinegar's good for annual weeds but it won't kill perennial roots..although if you have to spray a little more often, that might be worth avoiding pesticides. (Remember, though, it will acidify the soil nearby.) Also, store-bought vinegar generally isn't concentrated enough, so you need to buy a special herbicide-grade vinegar.