There could be a great number of things that worked against you or your seeds. Like old seeds fewer will sprout than normal the older the less seeds sprout. Could be the condition inside the jugs either too wet or too dry. Could be bugs found the seedlings before you saw them. It could be they were planted either too deep or too shallow for that type of seed. Or the rain or a simple watering could of pushed the seeds out of the way and washed out. Or it was too warm or too cold for that seed.

Wintersowing like the growing under lights just takes time and patienace. Some things grow some things do not. What you have trouble with may be so easy for another.

I know last year was a bad year for petunias but great for daturas. Well this year the petunias are doing good and the daturas I am only getting one or two seedlings per jug. And I heavy sow so that is saying something.

It is just the seeds not you. ( Gee sounds like a bad break up statement.)

Paula

I had much better germination for perennials that were started in Dec than those started in February or later. I'm going to use the Solstice as my guide for sowing hardy perennials. I also noticed that good soil made a huge difference, as did the number of leaves on the trees that increased the shade.

Seeds are most likely the reason for the problems, but winter sowing is a little different in Zone "7ish". We don't have the kind of cold some zones do (thank goodness), yet we regularly have rapid short spurts of really cold and really warm weather. The warmth of our climate sometimes requires checking what time of day the sun is on the containers (and the length of time they are in the sun) as well as checking the moisture in the containers. Our zone, unlike the really cold zones, is not a zone you can totally forget about the containers until the seeds sprout. At least this is my experience.

Something I have learned from Token is that in our zone it's smart to sow perennials early and plant out early. Look at his photos......he has plants that look mature and are either blooming or about to (I have baby plants that are far from blooming). Next year I will definitely follow his lead and anything that doesn't make it can be resown later in the season and planted out again. Thanks Token for the encouragement and photos.

Most perennials need some kind of cold stratification. I always those early to mid-winter.

Jill, Let's see if I have the same success next year. I do think planting out early helps. Since we have warm spells in December and January, the seedlings think they've lived through a winter when February turns cold. By late March, it's spring again. I think it takes about 45 days of cold weather to trick them into believing they were overwintered.

The difference in success from year to year involves so many variables.

I've been WS for 6 years now, and even with that amount of experience, the differences from year to year, do vary every year.

My success rate has always been at least 95%; success defined by me as germination of any kind in a container, not the number of seedlings germinated in each container, I do try to keep records as to where the seeds came from. Such things as trades, commercial seeds and what co. they came from, my own collected seeds.

From year to year, not all seed will germinate the same, even for me.

I always put out the perennials first. Being in New England, I do have a few months to get them out and get the cold that they need, BUT, 2 years ago we had the strangest winter. 60 to near 70 degrees in January and I know people that had WS their seeds in Dec. and had seeds germinating in January because it was so warm. Those plants didn't survive.
I had a late start that winter and ended up not getting my seeds out till mid February and they germinated fine for me, I didn't have any germination too early.

So for me, I learned that I can start in mid Feb and it won't be too late for me.

BUT, I've also had some serious cold snaps as late as mid May and if I had not covered my tender annuals several nights in a row, I would have lost all of them.

So variables are major things to deal with. Weather is a real problem. One year I had 8 inches of rain over 2 days and all my containers where floating in the backyard and the ducks where swimming right beside and around them. Most survived, but there where some that survived the floods, only to be eaten by the invasion of slugs that I had never had before in 29 years living in my home.

When we sow seeds that we traded for, we take a risk. Where the seeds collected when they where ripe or where they too early? If too early then the seeds will not be viable and will not germinate for you.

The same thing can happen with commercial bought seeds as well. I've had my share of "no shows" in containers from commercial purchased seeds from big name seed companies. I've gotten my money back, but still had no plants from the seeds I planned on.

Watering can be a problem, which goes with the weather. this year has been the craziest weather I have seen in 28 years living in my home. We've gone from freezing temps to 80's and 90's, with temps not staying stable for more than 2-3 days at most. 80's and 90's in early April are not normal where I am, but we've had them. We've had frosts long after it should not be happening and may happen again tonight.

I've never had to water my containers before the last week in April to the first week in May at the earliest. This year I have had to water every other day since the first week in April.

Germination for me has been very eradic as well. Same seeds, same kind of containers, sowed the same day from the same collected, traded or commercial packet and containers are germinating days and weeks apart.

My datura are usually about 4 inches tall now, and most have not germinated yet. They need steady 70 degree soil temp to germinate but they haven't gotten it.

And, we have not had a lot of rain. lots of days with rainy showers that moisten the top of the containers but not enough to soak into them.

Over 6 years of WS, I've learned to just go with the flow. Always expect good germination in terms of container numbers, sow more seeds than I will need in more containers, which usually will cover the beds planted. Assume that some will not germinate and that's just the way mother nature is.
Remember that no matter how you look at it, you will have more plants than you would have if you had to buy them and just WS next year and keep going.

The only way you will have a sure fire way to have every plant that you want, no matter what, is to buy them. That's far too expensive for me to deal with, considering the number of beds that i have to fill and keep filling. WS does it for me and I wouldn't do it any other way.

Fran

Fran, I have to say, buying plants isn't a guarantee either. I've killed a lot of nursery grown perennials. It's either too wet or too dry for them. They get some weird fungus and fall over dead two weeks after transplanting. And some things just don't over winter well. Nothing is a guarantee in gardening. You just keep on keeping on. Not all the plants I want can grow in my yard. I've learned to accept that fact and be happy with those that can.

I'm only in my second full year of gardening at all.

The "why" some things germinate and grow well is so variable it drives me crazy. With lots of seeds sown it seemed to work out that I have enough of whatever to do pots (lots) and fill beds already made.

Why does one jug of something germinate and the next with same seed pack, soilless mix bucket and milk crate does not I'll never know.

As long as I have things for butterflies and hummingbirds I'm relatively happy.

The wind gusts today are beating the heck out of planted seedlings. There are way too many to cover for protection so they're on their own. I've moved remaining containers with tops already removed to comparatively sheltered location away from direction of winds. Past few days we were supposed to have rain/thunderstorms. One night's rain soaked containers too much so I'm adding drainage holes. Not nearly as much precip as predicted rest of the time with 80s sun beating down so I was running around with lawn chairs and watering can for things already planted.

The idea of sowing more than you might need is the only thing that keeps me relatively accepting of the vagaries of growing plants. If something doesn't work out I'll replace it with something similar that did.

I find the variability unnerving overall BUT at this time of year I'm running around like a chicken without a head tending to this and that. And that doesn't even include the tree pruning/lugging stuff to street for pick up, trimming bushes and hauling that to woods, pulling endless Garlic Mustard, etc.

The container prep & seed sowing is the easy part compared to running in and out so often to tend to light, moisture, wind, covering/uncovering things and moving them here and there for all of the above conditions.

I found that, except for Sweet Alyssum, things surface sown are harder to grow outdoors unless they're checked often, well tended to and kept covered even after germination. I'd rather just make swiss cheese out of the top half of containers than have all the tree/weed seeds invade wide open containers.

Trust me, I feel as disappointed as you for things that didn't work out but so overwhelmed now I don't have time to consciously dwell on it. I've been checking Cosmos Radiance many times a day for germination. Nada. containers of Cosmos Sensation dwarf all germinated. I'll just have to accept the "special combination" I planned for those Radiance will have to be altered and move on to last minute plan B. Guess what? No one but me even knows what turns out wasn't planned to begin with.

Hang in there. Next year will be a whole 'nother set of weather, seed and mix variables.

Well, for the record, as I was dumping all my ungerminated containers this weekend, I happened to take mental note that a significant amount of the seeds that I bought from Wildseed Farms were duds. About 10 containers of different cosmos. VERY disappointed in that. On the flip side, one or two earlier containers germinated fine for their Cosmos Versailles Red. But that was the ONLY one.
Ladybird Dwarf Lemon- ALL DUD- 0 germination
Psycho White- ALL DUD- 0 germination
Versailles Red- about 50% germination. Out of about 6 sown, maybe 3 sprouted. And funny thing was, it was all or nothing with this one. I either got containers with complete germination, or ZERO. Weird.

I had a bad year for container sown Rudbeckia. (The skwir-rels dug up the most recent container I sowed last week). However, I am beginning to think that some of the DS seeds way in the back maybe maybe maybe might be rudbeckia. Could be wishful thinking on my part also. I am VERY grateful for the Rudbeckia from Monee at the swap!

WS Poppies were almost a total failure. I chose a very wide mouthed bowl that would make it easy to remove the whole thing in one piece. I did the best I could to PLOP the whole bowl of seedlings into a nice hole without disturbing the roots at all. Most of them are still sulking weeks and weeks after transplanting. I expected the seedlings at the edges of the bowl to have "felt" something, but the ones smack dab in the middle, no freaking way they were "disturbed" but pardon me, they STILL arent happy!

I DS'd a TON of poppies (*waving to tina*) all over the place and they chose their favorite places. I NEVER would have guessed that they would like the relatively dry shady side of the house and right up under the eaves that get hardly any water. Go figure. They like the dry spot in front of the cable box also. whodathunkit? DS poppies last fall was a complete failure, completely anticipated but I had to try it anyway.

Corn was pretty much a disaster, they germinated nicely and grew to nice seedlings, but the creatures pulled them out the same day I planted them.

The bunny fence is failing, I caught a bunny INSIDE the fence this morning and she bounced around inside a bit until finally climbing up and jumping over the fence--2.5 feet high. I prolly had the opportunity to have reached in with a butterfly net and caught it and drownded it, but even if I had the net in my hand, I dont think Id have the coldness of heart to actually do it. I released a baby that I caught that way last summer. There are definitely less bunnies so far this year. A construction project seems to have chased the predators into the neighborhood.

Chrysanthemums, almost total failure. Hoping the one seed in the sheffield pink container is not an invader. I think I have more seeds, I shall try summer sowing.

I have many successes also, but that is a topic for another thread.

:)

Thanks for all the great ideas. You know, I had a really poor germination rate for the containers that I placed near the woods. I wonder if they didn't get enough sun? My last bag of dirt was garden soil, not potting soil and that definitely wasn't as good. I think next year, I've got to figure out which seeds need to be covered and which don't. Any ideas where to find that out?

I hate to be too fussy with the seedlings, though. I do water once it gets warm, but I'd rather not have to bother with them too much if I can help it.

Dorisl, I didn't have any luck with WS poppies last year (there were the only ones who didn't transplant), so I did DS this year and they are growing nicely.

I do have plenty of things to plant, so I'm really not complaining. I just many totally empty (except for the weeds) containers.