There are issues in shipping Bayer Advanced during the winter as it should not be exposed to cold temperatures.

Many stores in zones 7 and lower do not stock garden chemicals in the winter months. Many manufacturers take back unsold stock. I know when I worked for WalMart, I had to box up certain vendor's products and return them.
I can't remember if Bayer is one of them. My WalMart reduces the price on their Bayer products in the fall. That's when I stock up on it.

Your stores will probably stock it again in time for the spring season, but if your area is like mine, I usually can find that product only at Lowes. I may have found it occasionally in early spring at Wal-mart, but my Wal-mart does not carry it most of the time.

Unfortunately for me, my nearest Lowes is in a town 30 miles away.

It is frustrating how they push the Bayer 3-in-1, 2-in-1, etc., but seem to overlook the really good "garden disease control" product, isn't it!

Kate

I've only ever seen the "Disease Control" formulation at Lowe's. I actually just bought some last week, so I know they still have it. But then, I'm not in your zone.
So....how cold is TOO cold for this stuff? I've been keeping mine in my un-heated entryway stairwell. It never freezes in there but it can get to around 40 when it's cold outside.

Mike

I believe the directions say don't let it freeze.

I left some out in the unheated garage a couple years ago. Probably did experience freezing temps at times. It seemed to work OK in the spring for BS, but the texture wasn't very smooth. I had to keep on cleaning out the spray holes. Even after vigorous and prolonged shaking, it still clotted a lot, in other words.

Whether freezing does anything worse to it, I don't know.

Kate

Don't know what else

The fungicide in the Bayer product, tebuconazole, has just enough solubility to render it systemic but to spray the stuff at useful concentrations, it has to be emulsified. Emulsions can break down when the water component freezes. Sometimes, as any good cook knows, emulsions can be hard to reestablish once they break down. If your spray concentrate does freeze and reshaking doesn't produce a perfectly homogeneous liquid, with no suspended solids, you should discard it. Any suspended solids are presumably tebuconazole and spraying a suspension can clog your sprayer, give erratic coverage, and pose a greater danger to you.

If you are in NY state I don think it is allowed to be sold here. I get mine online.

Like Mary1nys, I had to buy mine online too. I couldn't find it in any stores I checked. (Mary, where online do you buy yours from?)

None of the Bayer homeowner products containing tebuconazole are registered for sale in New York State. The latest ruling on this seems to be January, 2007 - see link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: New York State Ruling on Bayer Tebuconazole Fungicides

I was born and raised in Upstate NY, and have seriously given some consideration to purchasing some land up there once again and becoming one of those seasonal "snowbirds". While there are many things within the NY State government that certainly annoy me, I have to say I am in agreement with them on this one. If more people actually tested their wells, it would be a HUGE eye opener. We've done tests wherever we lived (and not by one connected with any local government) and will not live without reverse osmosis on our drinking water ever again.

I wish Florida would follow suit. The amount of chemicals that are dumped on all the yards here is appalling. People need to start growing plants that are actually suited to our environment and quit trying to force "what grew up north" to stay healthy here. We are located on Florida's main aquifer, and have porous sandy soil, just like many places in NY.

A foliar sprayed fungicide, properly used, is much safer.....at least for the drinking water if not allowed to run off into the ground. Not so sure for the person applying it. Most rose growers are smart and protect themselves, but the average home owner doesn't. I watch people all the time (including the "professionals") handle some pretty toxic chemicals in shorts, sandals, bare hands, and let the stuff generally get all over themselves.

This is not intended to be a lecture, or to spark arguments. Just food for thought. And something positive for whoever is in charge of the environment in NY.

Sandy

I could see them banning the drench, but the Disease control is sprayed on. How much would get into the ground?

I just read the link. This is what they based the ban on:

In response to this concern, the registrant submitted a revised risk assessment in which different toxicity data were used and the assumed volume of diluted product applied was reduced from 100 gallons per day to 30 gallons per day to more closely reflect likely use.

30 gallons a DAY! Are they insane? I doubt I used 30 gallons a year. I can understand the ban in NYC and LI because there is a low water table there, but it shouldn't be banned for the entire state. The ban on tebuconazole was based on exposure, not ground water tests.

Oh well, glad I don't live in NYS anymore. Everything there is so over taxed and over regulated it's ridiculous.

Bayer should be taken off the market here as it has been in some European countries that are ahead of us health wise. Check the Wikipedia entry, or the link below for what we are doing to the bees in this country.

Sorry, heres the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bayer Kills Bees

The product in question is the foliar sprayed fungicide, not the insecticide. That is the one that it is rumored that it may affect bees. There is no concrete proof that it does.

Bayer makes a number of products and not all of them are insecticides or include insecticides.

it is probably one of the chemicals they use to treat the water in NY along with chlorine,fluoride, and God knows what else, and are afraid of overdosing people.

Before the "garden wars" break out again, I'd like to emphasize buford's point. "Bayer Advanced Garden Disease Control" is a FUNGICIDE ONLY. It contains absolutely NO INSECTICIDE in it. Those of us who use the "garden disease control" are spraying for blackspot and related DISEASES, NOT for any kind of pest or insect or bug. The reason why we use the "garden disease control" is because we do NOT want to harm bees and other insects.

There are several different Bayer products. In addition to the GARDEN DISEASE CONTROL, Bayer also puts out several 3-in-1, 2-in-1, etc., type products. Those are combination products that include an insecticide plus food or insecticide plus food plus fungicide. Those are the Bayer products that should be avoided since they all have an insecticide in them.

I repeat: BAYER ADVANCED GARDEN DISEASE CONTROL DOES NOT CONTAIN AN INSECTICIDE. IT CONSISTS ONLY OF A FUNGICIDE.

Every few months we seem to have to go over this controversy again and again. For some reason, some posters confuse the word "fungicide" with the word "insecticide" (or "pesticide"). They are different words, as any quick stop at your local dictionary will quickly reveal.

The "garden disease contol" has as its active ingredient Tebuconazole. That is NOT the chemical the article above was referring to.

Kate

AMEN Kate!!! You go girl!! Judy

One of the concerns with using tebuconazole based products is indicated in the following:

Http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119398205/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a791737811~db=all

Http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCN-4HR72N0-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0amp;_userid=10&md5=cf7567b6e24c6fd921e8b3ecb5e199c4

Http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCR-4T5SYB3-D9&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0amp;_userid=10&md5=d47754c65dcbc6855cdaed71fb2751f6

Here is a link that might be useful: first link given above

Sorry, for the first link in my last post use:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119398205/abstract

Here is a link that might be useful: corrected first link

Henry, for us non-scientific types, it would be helpful if you provided a short summary (in everyday language) of the main finding in the articles you list. I'm afraid there are too many posters like myself who just cannot bear to wade through scientific papers and abstracts. It's not that we object to learning new info., but we'd kind of like to get it nice and easy. I know us non-scientific types drive you scientific people crazy, but that is just the way we are. But thanks for your participation.

Kate

dublinbay, my experience is: when someone interprets an article rather than posting the actual article, there will sometimes be those who attack the interpretation as being bias. I prefer to post the actual article and leave the interpretation up to the forum members. If I disagree with an interpretation on what I consider a critical point, of course, I reserve the right to also add my "spin".

Well, Henry, how about a compromise. You post the article AND tell us in a couple sentences what point you think it is making. If it interests us (or maybe I would say "me") enough, I/we will call up the article and read it and comment if I/we feel so moved. You can then spin as you feel the need to.

I'm sure some people don't have my reluctance to read scientific papers, so maybe none of my comments apply to anyone but me.

Kate

I would be concerned too, if I was using 100 or even 30 gallons a day. But I don't. I'm lucky to use 30 gallons (of diluted product) and entire growing season.

Keep in mind that there are many areas in NY state that have wells. We lived in "the country", and most wells are what they call "dug" wells there, rather than drilled, deeper wells. The water table near Lake Ontario is not very far down. Most of the wells there test positive for some very nasty chemicals. A large share of land in Upstste NY had always been used for agriculture. When we sold our house, the bank that was giving our buyers the mortgage could not believe that we tested clean, and made us submit another test. THAT's how much pollution there is in the ground, and in the water table, in many areas. It does not dissipate quickly, as the chemical companies would like you to believe. The problem is not isolated just in NY state. It's all over.

I don't personally feel a fungicide is any safer to drink or be exposed to than an insecticide. Recently the claim was made here about a chemical being used on the runway that was "safe enough for cattle to graze on immediately after application", and that we should all blanket our yards with this stuff. My reply was, go ahead and eat some of the grass then, if you feel it is so innocuous. My neighbor's dogs got extremely ill a week after application, when out for a walk.

The 30 gallon nonsense that the chemical company claims doesn't make me think of this stuff as harmless. If it did, then I wouldn't mind putting a tiny drop of it in my water and then drinking it. I think NY state is thinking in terms of not one individual use, but of the accumulation of thousands of individuals, not many of whom are responsible individuals. I've watched people dump left over solutions on the ground. Let me tell you, I'm ready to move to a very unpopulated area.

You have to make your own choices. I have, after doing much, much research.

Sandy

If New York has a water table problem, then that probably explains why New York has banned Bayer. However, many of us in other states are not drinking contaminated water from dug wells. Where that is a problem, of course those people should be extra cautious about what is sprayed. However, I don't think we need to conjure up extravagant images of gardeners pouring gallons of pesticides every day all over their yards. I don' know anyone who does that.

Myself, I spray a couple gallons of diluted Bayer Garden Disease Control (the fungicide) two or three times in the spring and again a couple times in the fall. I do not dump any extra in the ground because I never make up more of the diluted solution than I plan to use. The bees are not affected by this practice, and I put on long pants and long sleeves, etc., when I spray (and wash all my clothing immediately after I finish). I do not believe I am being irresponsible when I engage in this limited kind of spraying of a fungicide on my roses. I also refuse to grow roses that are blackspot magnets--that cuts down considerably on the need to spray.

I guess we all have to decide for ourselves what our comfort level is (or is not), after learning some basic info. on the subject.

Kate

Kate, you need not get so defensive about what I wrote about chemicals and water. You are very fortunate that you do not know people who have poured chemicals out on the ground. I have, and I have watched them do it. I don't recall saying that YOU were irresponsible. Unfortunately, the laws get put into place because of people who DO pour stuff out on the ground.

As far as one area of water being vulnerable, and another being untouched....all the water on this planet eventually circulates and flows together. That said, some areas still have fairly pure water, but even in the Adirondak Mountain Park, (which is a protected park), there are areas of contaminated water. It isn't just about the water table or where it is located relative to the surface of the ground. The type of soil, how the native soil layers are constructed, and the type of plant life also makes a difference with what reaches the water table. I didn't say YOU are putting the junk in the ground, but some people are.

I personally do not care if you or anyone else sprays, as long as it is not in my yard. One of the points I was trying to make is, don't always believe what you read, especially if someone stands to make a nice profit, and keep an open mind about all the views involved.

I do not feel that I was out of line in any way in making a few valid points about what all of us should be considering. I don't understand why you took this so personally. No one here should be taking what I said personally. I haven't made any type of accusations towards you, or anyone else on this forum. I LIKE this forum. There's lots of nice people here. Not everyone, but the majority.

I am not going to respond further because this thread will just get ridiculous, I will get upset, and frankly, it isn't worth it.

I STILL feel the environmental people are doing a good job, in NY State. Now the tax people....well, that's another matter altogether.

Sandy

My apologies, Sandy. I did not mean to upset you. We both hope, I'm sure, that more people will become more environmentally responsible.

Peace.

Kate

Sandy, if you read the EPA report, the concern over tebuconazole was for exposure, not ground water. And they based it on using 100 gallons of diluted product a DAY. Then they lowered it to 30 gallons a day. Which is still ridiculous for the home gardner, even one with 100 rose bushes. Of course it's a chemical and just like every chemical I use, I use precaution. I don't drink it or get it on my skin or inhale it. Just like bleach or ammonia or many of the other chemicals that I use inside and outside. I don't think it's 'safe' to use in incorrectly. But many things aren't.

I think Kate's point and my point is that people read BAYER and automatically think of insecticide and bees. This product is different. I think bad information is bad, whether it's being over cautious or under cautious. Too many times on this board I've seen people confuse the fungicide with the fungicide/insecticide drench. It's not only bad for the plants, it's bad for us.

Thanks Kate. I truly feel you are a very nice person! Many of us have strong opinions, and sometimes it is so hard when we read what someone else has written, because words can be blunt when conversation usually isn't. I know that I can be quite blunt, though I try harder now to see what I have written through someone else's eyes. Not always easy to do.

Buford, the report does address the water issue under the section titled Environmental Fate Risk Assessment. However, most of the report has raised the question of homeowner safety, as you said. I know it is unbelievable for most of the people here, but there are knuckleheads out there who think if the directions say a Tablespoon per gallon, then 5 must be better. And then they dump the leftovers on the ground or down the drain instead of using the spray up on some plants. I'm telling you, they get all kinds down here. The report does address the liquid spray form of the chemical. I do know that the granules cause huge problems with the soil and water table, and many of the garden centers down here do not have it available. I don't know if it was banned here, or if some of them have chosen not to sell it.

I agree with you about common household cleaners and such. Our house is very "tight", so I can't use most of them any more, and have had to switch to gentler products like baking soda. That too, can irritate skin, so I were gloves, but I had to quit using a lot of other things because we would go to bed at night and wake up sick. Some of the bathroom products have warning lables on them that exceed many of the garden spray products in toxicity, and they are usually going down the drain, ultimately getting into the water table some century. Opening windows helps, but I can't always do that or we would cook and melt simultaneously from heat and humidity.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody. That was absolutely never my intention. I wanted to bring up a few points that I felt were important to consider and not meant to accuse anyone of being a "terrible" person. On the other hand, we are helping the environment by doing something good....we grow plants!

Sandy

This may sound so so silly but did you notice that when all that controversey over the bees not returning to their hives and the using of insecticides came out in the news that it was the same exact same time the movie came out "The Bee Movie" with Jerry Seinfeld. And now you don't hear anything else about the bees in the news, um.....well folks I think there might be an agenda going on here.
Darn conspiracy theories......;^)

Sandy, no offense taken and I hope I didn't cause any! I just get concerned that people don't make the distinction between the fungicide and insecticide. You are right, many people don't read labels or follow directions. I've done it myself.I remember there was someone on here who actually sprayed the Bayer drench on his roses and killed them. OY!

I have been much more organic since I've been on Garden Web. I used to use the Bayer drench and I loved it. But I was concerned about killing the good bugs in my yard. So now I just use alfalfa and Rose Tone. I do have a problem with thrips, but I dont' think the drench would help with that anyway. I haven't used an insecticide in 2 years.

But I can't give up spraying fungicide. I would have to get rid of all my roses. And I think spraying the bayer every 3 weeks is less damaging than using another less effective fungicide every week or so (which is what I was doing).