Should I prune this young Sun Valley maple?

12 years ago

Looking for advice ... I read a pretty good posting about pruning an Autumn Blaze from earlier this(?) year, and I'd love to get the same kind of input (from whaas, ken_adrian, dan_staley, gardengal48, etc.).

I rescued this Sun Valley from the local garden center (it was growing around the zip ties) and it's been in the ground for about a week. The tree is about 9 feet tall and was living in a two gallon container ... very root bound. Our soil here has a very high clay content, so I've got it tied down pretty well until the roots establish themselves.

My question is about what, if anything, I should do with the three branches (leaders?). Do I prune off one or two of them to improve structure? I'm not too concerned about how it ends up looking. I've never seen an "ugly" maple tree. However, it's on the west side of the house and it's going to catch the brunt of the summer thunderstorms and winter gales. That's its job, provide shade and wind break (in 10+ years).

Also, this spot is only about 3 1/2 feet off the ground. Don't I want the main trunk to be higher before it splits?

I've tied different color twist-ties (blue/yellow/green) on the branches to aid discussion ... and I hope these pics turn out OK.

Any advice out there?

Thanks, Paolo

the whole tree

... and a bit closer ...

a tighter view from the south

... and one from the northwest

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Comments (13)

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
12 years ago
I'd stake it properly before anything else. Then let the tree get settled in before cutting off a major portion of leaf area.

Dan
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
12 years ago
hey .. welcome to gw ...

no canopy removal for 2 years.. until the roots become established.. leaves are the food making machine... you dont want to whack them off ...

did you untangle the roots??? if not.. when the leaves fall off ... dig it back up.. bare root it and cut and untangle to roots ...

is planting depth correct .. looks a bit telephone poled ...

agree about the staking ...

i like your color code for making a discussion possible... try it again in 2 years .... its a first here at GW.. congrats.. you are blazing a new trail ...

and finally.. where are you???

ken
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Should I prune this young Sun Valley?
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Looking for advice ... I read a pretty good posting about pruning an Autumn Blaze from earlier this(?) year, and I'd love to get the same kind of input (from whaas, ken_adrian, dan_staley, gardengal48, etc.). I rescued this Sun Valley from the local garden center (see strap marks in pictures) and it's been in the ground for about a week. The tree is about 9 feet tall and was living in a two gallon container ... very root bound. Our soil here has a very high clay content, so I've got it tied down pretty well until the roots establish themselves. My question is about what, if anything, I should do with the three branches (leaders?). Do I prune off one or two of them to improve structure? I'm not too concerned about how it ends up looking. I've never seen an "ugly" maple tree. However, it's on the west side of the house and it's going to catch the brunt of the summer thunderstorms and winter gales. That's its job, provide shade and wind break (in 10+ years). I've tied different color twist-ties (blue/yellow/green) on the branches to aid discussion ... and I hope these pics turn out OK. I've got multiple pictures if I can figure out how you post more than one. Any advice out there? Thanks, Paolo Image link:
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I see that censorship is alive and well on the Gardenweb. I've seen a lot of Japanese maples in my life and I've seen many with multiple branches low on the trunk but never one that has several trunks coming out of the ground like in the photos that Dave posted. It truly does look like a shrub. That look is not my cup of tea for a Japanese maple. If I want something that looks like a lilic then I'll go buy the lilac. IMHO, the Burgandy Lace was not pruned properly when it was younger although that it strictly from a viewpoint of aesthetics and not structural abnormalities. Looking at it's branching structure, I don't see any branches that resemble the acute angle on the maple in this thread. I still maintain that the latter needs a pruning job to correct for a structural defect. A tree that gets this large is going to act like a sail. Consequently, the wind is going to get leverage on any tall trunks that branch low on the tree. I am not saying that a Japanese maple needs to be pruned to look like an oak tree or any other really large tree. What I am saying is that sound pruning practices are applicable for any plants above a certain size. It is irresponsible and amateurish to suggest otherwise. It is also hypocritical to suggest this for some trees but not others not to mention confusing for anyone new to the Gardenweb. I must respond to one of the deleted posts. Basically, it was stated that this tree will not recover and fill out from pruning off the second leader. K4 hit the nail on the head in his response which was that the tree will throw out a lot of new growth next year after this leader is pruned off. This new growth will provide plenty of opportunity to shape the tree into a far better look than it has now. Without question, the tree will quickly fill out and I question the practical experience of anyone who states otherwise.
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Thanks for the replies... Toronado... I am just west of Atlanta, GA. Zone 7/7B. Soil is heavy red clay, slightly acidic. The location is full sun, and actually part of the reason for this tree it to provide shade for a Crimson Queen that has been roasting in full sun for years. it is surviving, but far from thriving. Ken... All good points. I wasn't sure what the easement was, yeah had not thought of that. This line in question would only effect us, as it is from pole to our house only. Which of course means in a storm we would be the only ones out on the street, and last to repair. A definite consideration. I think the problem has resolved tho. I was luckily able to reach Sooner Plant Farm, and they will be shipping me a 5 gallon Shantung Maple Fire Dragon in a month. From what I hear (and see) this tree is outstanding. Gorgeous red fall color, smaller/shorter... reaching 30' X 30' or so at maturity, excellent resistance to storm damage, and has a more branching type natural style rather than single leader. A perfect smaller maple to bonsai train... at least initially for the shape I need. Really looking forward to trying this. I will update as things go, starting with a pic after planting. Also attaching a cpl pics of fire dragon for any that have not seen one.
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"I am sure other reader of this thread will appreciate it as well." It's been very educational for me. I'm really glad you're showing the progress of this plant. The trunk is shaping up nicely. I'm learning about this stuff myself. I don't know if you will be able to use grow lights, but I started growing one that I thought had stalled, under a grow light. The new growth (top set of leaves on the right and small ones out of the left) is so compact, I don't know how I'll be able to prune it when the time comes. This has that slingshot look, which will hopefullybe remedied in the future by doing similar to what Al suggested. You may have missed this part of Al's instructions: Don't allow any buds to grow from the pair of leaves left at the top of the stub. This will force back-budding from the lower nodes from which leaves have been shed. If you're lucky, you'll also get a bud to pop at the red arrow. The good thing is you have great trunk growth which is what happens from letting branches grow. I always had that backwards; I put the plants in small containers to keep limit root growth (supposedly), which will only keep the trunk smaller, and pruned too much too soon, like in my photo above, which is actually older than it looks. Here are a couple of links that I've found extremely interesting. They require a couple of read-throughs for me, and then I'll read them again in a few months, after I've had more experience. https://adamaskwhy.com/2012/08/22/dwarf-jade-portulacaria-afra/ https://adamaskwhy.com/2014/08/11/dwarf-jade-bonsai-techniques/ I'm not sure if they apply directly to you, because you may not be looking to make it into a bonsai tree per se, and these plants are Portulacaria afra as opposed to Crassula, but definitely instructive regarding pruning. I hope this thread stays active. Thanks for posting. Sorry I can't give any real advice yet.
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j0nd03
12 years ago
Only thing I can add is if you do replant it, you need a wider (NOT deeper) hole. Judging by the small circle of bare grass it looks just wide enough to stick the potted root ball into. You need to make it at least twice as wide as you have it. If you spread the roots out and the roots are still too long to fit the width of the wider hole you are going to make, you can prune the ends of the roots to fit the hole.

I have around a dozen or so different red maples of various cultivars in the same situation as yours regarding all the leaders. Next year will be their second full year in the ground and then they will be pruned for shape spring 2013 before bud break. They will bleed some sap but I think it is the best time to prune as it gives them a whole growing season to heal over the wound.

John
PaoloV
Original Author
12 years ago
Ken, I was thinking of pruning next February. Sounds like you're saying wait until the year after. Yes, I did untangle. The advice of the garden center (man, I hope it was correct) was to score four sides and loosen all around the outside. I agree it may be a bit low. It's level with the bottom of the sod, not the top.

RE: the staking ... the spot where it's tethered will move about an inch in every direction (it was pretty windy over the weekend). Not enough movement?

Westlake, OH (suburb of Cleveland)
j0nd03
12 years ago
I do almost rigid staking for 1 month after planting then slowly loosen over the next year. I ALWAYS remove the stakes by the end of the first growing season. It is very beneficial IMO if the rootball is stationary while new roots are put out. If the tree is swaying all over the new small roots expanding out will break.

Scoring the rootball will not reveal circling/girdling roots close to the main trunk beneath the top of the potting mix. It is worth a look. After I discovered a girdling root on one of my red maples, I dug up and barerooted all the rest. Only two of the 12 did not have some type of circling/girdling root. 2 had trunks that were already becoming girdled and I am talking about 1" caliper trees!

John
Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
12 years ago
I didn't want to bring it up so soon, but now that we did, yes the hole is too small and plant too deep. DD1.

Dan
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
12 years ago
scoring the sides of a root bound plant is NOT sufficient ...

when the leaves fall off.. pull it out ... hose off all soil.. and you might be shocked at what little you did with the scoring ...

replant at proper height.. in a hole sized as suggested.. NO SOIL AMENDMENTS ...

as per this weekends wind.. did the tree move at all??? .... if not.. then whats the point of all the roping??? .. dylan said it best when he said:

the answer my friend .... is blowing in the wind ...

when i plant in my sand.. once back filled about 66% .. i step in there.. and really tamp down the soil ... while insuring it doesnt end up too deep ...

my soil is obviously not your clay soil.. but if you are so lightly setting it in the hole ... then that is your potential problem...

in heavy clay soil.. many recommend actually planting about half of the root mass above grade.. and making a berm or mound with good soil ...

ken
PaoloV
Original Author
12 years ago
Why aren't my replies posting? ... TESTING!!!
PaoloV
Original Author
12 years ago
Got it. Different subject line.

OK ... the hole is wider, about 3 1/2 feet. What I did was replace some of the sod to help keep in moisture.

Sounds like I can move it up a bit when I pull it out of the ground to get the roots right.

Yes, it moved. The trunk was moving about an inch in any/every direction. I was thinking that would help it get aclimated to being in the real world (it's was under a shelter, out of the wind at the garden center) without moving around the roots. An advantage of the clay is that the root ball does get a lot of support. I was worried the roots would have trouble getting through it, but maples do grow very well around here.

PV
PaoloV
Original Author
12 years ago
John,

Back to the original question. It looks like the yellow leader use to be a V and one side was pruned. I'm guessing that's why it doesn't go straight up. For your reds, will you be "forcing" a central leader.

Yellow is in the middle, but its not really centered. Will that one straighten up over time, or will it always be off center?

In another posting someone said that bark inclusion was going to cause weakness. Does that mean I "HAVE TO" prune those away to prevent spliting when it matures? That's how I lost my Ash, who's remains you can see in the background. I mean, no one prunes "free range" maple trees.
j0nd03
12 years ago
What you need to do to "keep in moisture" is roundup that turf and put a generous mulch ring 4' diameter and 2-3" think on top. That turf will suck up a lot of the water that tree will need to "sense" moisture and grow roots out as well as it hydrate itself.

But if you are going to dig it up in a couple of months, I would leave as is and make sure it is watered appropriately in the mean time. Add the mulch ring after the root surgery or now if you are not doing any root surgery.

John
PaoloV
Original Author
12 years ago
For any other rookies out there reading this post ... I found a web page that describes (with diagrams) what girdling roots and a telephone pole trunk means:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1139.html

PV
brandon7 TN_zone7
12 years ago
That is a good article for general info on girdling roots. One nuance that I would point out is that the "telephone pole trunk" discussed in the article is the result of girdling. The "telephone pole trunk" discussed earlier above in this thread (and in many others) is likely the result of improper planting depth (the root flare is buried), whether by the nursery, prior to sale, or by the person that planted the tree. B@B trees are often delivered with extra soil on top of the rootball, for various reasons. The person planting the tree should always analyze the root system to prevent this from causing a problem.

Should I prune this young Sun Valley maple?

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Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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