Which tree transplants better

11 years ago

I don't know about anyone else, but by this point, I HATE gardening... brutal summer. SORRY, had to vent, I'm sore and frustrated.

REAL question, "not too bright" me planted a weeping bald cypress (cascade falls) in spring, it's grown more than I thought. TOO CLOSE to it, I planted a red majestic contorted filbert.

Problem, one is I'm learning there's a grade that needs leveled, majorly... the filberts down from the taxodium but WAY too close (it too has grown a lot, which I thought they didn't)... The filbert is not liking the taxodium's water (They like it drier).. plus TOO CLOSE.

When dormant, someone's gotta move (SIGH)... I see the filbert has impressively LONG, LONG white (on one side) feeder roots (side close to cypress aren't as healthy).. The cypress has put out long, long feeders... I believe they both get taproots and neither are the "best plants" reported to transplant...

Which would be easier, the cypress was in a smaller container when I purchased, I still haven't a clue how big it gets, I hear everything...

I worry I'll kill one in transplanting, and I don't want to. I've killed enough in other ways. The cypress was more money , but it seems as though it may need a lot of root room, I worry the filbert will get that blight I read about, but if it does, it does...who knows, maybe it has it, I can't tell if the stems on some branches are supposed to be cracked due to it's contorted nature... I don't see the black spots.

The filberts current size above ground (if it matters) is about 6 feet by 4 feet. The bald is narrow but staked somewhat is about 7 feet (guessing)...

Any advice, I appreciate... (oh, and methods for SORE muscles, fingers all cut up... the marks of a gardener??)...

Amy

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Comments (16)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
11 years ago
moving something planted this spring should not be all that hard ...

just dig out an extra 6 to 12 inches.. from the ball you planted ... so as to not cut off all the new root growth ...

i guess i would pick the one that is easier to dig under. ..

though on the other hand.. i might do the cheaper one ...

ken
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks Ken, my goal is to save as many roots as possible, a lot of those white feeders, but if they get cut, the cold (dormant) won't hurt them, correct?

Last year I learned hard way if root pruning then putting those in the WEIRD wet, warm/cold soil we had destroyed lots of plants... some rot, whatever..

Thanks again,ammy
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Just wanted to post a followup on this for anyone who may come across this thread in the future. I always hate finding a thread full of good information, but then not knowing if it actually worked or not. I replaced the trees that died, and the new ones are doing great. Here's what I did differently. (I know that for some of you, these may be the most obvious things in the world, but some of us are still learning, even from our really stupid, obvious mistakes). - I waited til it cooled down. It got cooler earlier than I expected, so I was able to do the transplants a couple weeks ago. - Smaller trees. I did still really need the height, so I went with 6-8' tall trees (some are about 9', actually), but I got much smaller caliper (trunk diameter) trees. I tried for no more than about 1.5" caliper, measured 6 inches above the root flare (some are a little closer to 1.75"). They're definitely much less full, but they'll get the job done until they fill in and grow up a little. It helps a lot that I found out that for screening purposes, eastern red cedars can be planted as close as 4' apart. Bigger, fuller trees really aren't needed at that spacing. - No starter fertilizer. These are trees, not grass. I used some Fertilome Root Stimulator & Starter solution (per the manufacturer's instructions) when I planted, and may add some Superthrive in a couple weeks, just to get the roots really going before winter kicks in. - Much better care of the root balls. I didn't make perfect root balls, as such - after reading a whole lot of back and forth between scientists on the benefits of good root balls vs taking as much root as possible, even if they're outside of the dirt, I kind of went with a hybrid approach. I got as much root as I could, and kept as much dirt on them as possible. I kept all of them covered with dirt of some type for as much time as possible, and ensured that they never actually got dry. Total time from digging to planting was less than 4 hours, and most of that time, they were in some kind of dirt. - I watered with a sprinkler for a few days, to let moisture come in through both the roots & leaves, in case the roots were having difficulty of some kind. Then I found out about Wilt-Pruf (prevents moisture from escaping through the leaves, which causes a lot of transplant shock). I applied it per the manufacturer's instructions, and am now watering with a soaker hose, as Wilt-Pruf should also prevent absorption of water through the leaves. - I haven't mulched yet (life got in the way unexpectedly), but I will be soon. Something else I came across in my reading - mulch isn't required, but most bushes or trees that are mulched in their first year or two after transplant show 20%+ more growth than those that aren't. Since growth & size are my primary goals here, it's worth having that junk in my yard for a year or two. We'll see what, if anything, will grow under these trees once they're established, but for now, it's gonna be mulch. Thanks, everybody, for all the insights provided. Hopefully these results, and what I did to get them, will be useful to someone else in the future, too.
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wisconsitom
11 years ago
I'd consider design aspects in making the choice of which to move. Which tree where provides the landscape elements you're after. Everything else follows from design considerations in my world.

+oM
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whaas_5a
11 years ago
Didn't Pitt have good rains in July and Aug?

I transplanted a Bald Cypress in late fall with success. Although it was a very mild winter.

Tom makes a good point as to the design. That and the cultural preferences should make the decision easy. For example do you have a spot that is very dry or spot that is wet in the yard?
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
All around pittsburgh (greensburgh, moneville, etc.) had rain, this area, we occasionally could see the rain clouds nearby, and hear the thunder, we're in a bubble, I'm guessing in 3 months maybe .. maybe...3 inches... guessing, it's been a long long long time, the ground won't take up water... I'm more north of pittsburgh, I've never seen it like this...

My problem is I have a yard with too much flooding, pooling issues, poor drainage, and have lost countless things to root rot, only a buttonbush is on that side... it seems like it would make sense to move the cypress to the "root rot wet side"... I don't know what to do with the yard anymore, it's so wet (trying to do the grass thing as there's no plants, which is why it's wet when it's a drought, however, I did lose wet tolerant things quickly to root rot.. more soil needs, broken up (The hardpan), it's just I've been doing since spring and it's very painful... until then, more plants in pots as they wait for ... a miracle, things I had to pot up due to issues...

GOOD to know you did the bald with success, it has such long roots, and if it gets as high as they say (trained), the power lines nearby would be a factor. This has been a brutal year..

Again, I smile about the rain ... what is it? 90% chance days meant pure sun here... (oh, I'm sun sunsensitive too)... every days a new day, until then, I'm embarrassed by how torn apart the yard looks.. lacking energy...

THANKS, sorry for the vent..

amy
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wisconsitom
11 years ago
Amy, perhaps it's time to amend the soil in the entire yard. Well cured compost would help with airification. (Not sure how to spell that word apparently).

Some may think compost would make a wet soil even wetter but this has not been my experience. Compost added to a too-dry, sandy soil will make it more moisture retentive, but that same compost added to a heavy clay-based soil will actually make it dry out better.

+oM
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
+oM,
I've been working on it, for almost (over a year?) now, funny how long it's been... basically nonstop but I move slowly and can't accomplish what someone else could ...i.e they'd be done by now... not the whole yard either, just the planting areas, it seems a small enough area when you look at it. Then, when working on it, I sometimes want to scream "How can it take 4 hours to accomplish what I did in such this tiny space!"... but, once done, not again..
Learned a lot, still am... it's physically painful and very frustrating but will pay off..
neighbors think i'm nuts, I no longer care.. I mean, who keeps digging or something for months and seems to be not doing anything? Since there's still little grass, i've dealt since last winter with constant dirt/grit/everything through house, bed, from the 2 dogs, everywhere...

oh well.... immediate family thinks I'm insane.. maybe I am... we all have to be a little OCD about something, though I'm far from that. Too many outside issues constantly crop up that hinders me..I do have 3 areas of compost (At least), 2 in bins, some amending on grounds, not all broken down yet but it gets there...compost is the only thing that's ever really worked, peat can retain too much water (unless I got the wrong kind), or too dry...I like the pine bark fines, gets pricey, etc...I'll take your advice when I approach the bog today..it stinks, and it attracts bugs, and I don't know where it came from.

Thanks
amy
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wisconsitom
11 years ago
.......okay! Well, I agree that compost, provided it is fully decomposed and cured, is the premier soil amendment for what ails you-your soil I mean. Since there's apparently little grass, could you spread the material over a wide area and then til it in with a rototiller? Or have some brawny young lad do it for a few dollars?

I understand you're not able to do a lot of vigorous physical work, so I wonder, what are your options in having someone help you out?

Also, in some areas, decent compost derived primarily from ground up yardwaste can be had for a song, maybe two songs and a poem. My city has such material and it can be very good stuff.

+oM
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jimbobfeeny
11 years ago
Again, have you considered drain tiles? Plastic tile is fairly inexpensive, and well worth it. If it wasn't for drain tiles around here, every other field would be a swamp.
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks guys for the help, advice.... It's very hard.. I have had a severe chronic disease that's been beastly since thanksgiving and more and more issues from it.. No, nobody helps... their idea is have no yard, worry about more important (no money, health?)... or.. that's about it.. they are embarrassed by now for me..

I'm supposed to have a drain somewhere, it seems noexistant. Money is really an issue anymore, SSDI and things that are occuring (losing teeth) that need money with insurance I don't have.. dogs that need a vet and I don't have.. and the tree loss..

I know there's bigger things in life, I go in for another brutal round of IV steroids (combined with high dose I'm always on) for a week, along with chemo... it may help the pain...and my thinking...

I'm trying not to be depressed about it all, it's hard though...

Amy
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
Oh, from previous post, no worries anymore about moving, lost the hydrangea tree, horrible root rot and roots so girdled it wasn't worth it to try to reverse... lost the walking stick I THINK, again the roots and root rot, the roots... I cut it way back.. but it may get that elm disease anyway, I don't know if branches are supposed to be cracked and cankered...

Lost river birch, god knows how... lost redtwig dogwood, root rot???? Seven sons is in pot, suffering, but may not be able to be planted ever as it too is susceptible to root rot and it gets huge root.. lost 3 allegheny viburnums, 2 I'm trying to save but.. Paperbark maple, susceptible to it, is in pot for now... I'm clueless as i'm sure it too will have no home... lost some hostas, ditto, pink viburnum (nursery's fault).. lots seemed to be nurserys fault.. but.. lost most perenials, no energy to deal, worried about beauty berry bushes as everything else wants to go... snowberry now in pot as it was starting.. honestly, the soil is so bad... what can I do, $6 left until the 3rd of next month, and teeth is crumbled again (bone issues), muscle pulls and possible fracture, all that... I can't imagine living without any landscape..

Amy
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jimbobfeeny
11 years ago
What is your soil PH? I've read that Phytophthora tends to be more prolific in alkaline soils. Also, warm soils tend to encourage root rot. With our mild winter like last year, diseases tend to proliferate. Drought doesn't really help much.

We have phytophthora problems around here (gets my peppers every year), but plants still grow. You may have to look to floodplain species for plants to grow.
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
Jimbo,
Funny, my PH was acidic, very, I heard from some arborist that it tends to be more prolific in acidic... different folks, different talk. NEver know who to believe anymore..
Yes, warm soil, and obviously saturated, and obviously old houses with rotting trees who have roots all through your own yard...
I'm confused as the arborist, Bartletts, sent me all this info.. and it said that once the spores are in the soil, they can be dormant forever, and the right conditions.. or any contact with diseased parts of roots (EVERYWHERE!) will send susceptible plants into rot.. even if well drained.. unless you can avoid all contact or raise roots above the old roots, or something impossible..

I'll look into floodplain plants, I have i fact.. but honestly, even those have succumb...

TIred, thanks..
amy
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whaas_5a
11 years ago
Floodplain plants that are tolerant of clay should not die. In most cases they should thrive. My dogwoods grew like weeds in my water logged clay.

I'd highly recommend getting your soil tested for pathogens. You shouldn't see root rot unless they are planted too deep and overwater, and of course planting plants that demand well drained soil.

It sounds like you know what you are doing thats why I'd get the soil tested. Work with the county ext. and tell them what is going on.
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greyandamy
Original Author
11 years ago
pathogens? UGHH! so possible with the neighbors erosion and crap.. but I don't know STUFF that attacks me or my dogs, maybe part of the reason my illness isn't responding to any treatment (worsening).. I think the pathogens are in those stinky rotted tree roots from everyones trees all through yard (I've eliminated TONS of other CRAP)..or, and bog like areas..

amy
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Dzitmoidonc
11 years ago
When the Contorted Filbert dies in a few years, it is NOT due to the soil. Do a check for Eastern Filbert Blight, that is the reason most Filberts succumb here in the East.
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Which tree transplants better

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