Lack of roots a sign of too much water

13 years ago

Just dug up my Fagus sylvatica Purpurea Tricolor - (rose-marg.)var.beech. This was it's second summer in the ground. Almost full sun exposure near the bottom of my long hill. Did fine with the mild summer last year so I had my hopes up.

After a wet spring we had a consistently warm and somewhat dry summer. Not dry enough I seriously had to water the grass but dry enough the grass where there used to be more shade just started to brown.

I think the fella had more roots when I planted it! It certainly didn't have less. Would this be a sign of too much water for the species? Anything else I should be looking for?

Nearby I have a generic Acer Rubrum and Metasequoia growing happily. Can't help but notice both those tolerate quite a bit of water. A little up the hill each way in drier spots a generic Acer Palmatum and a "Prairie Fire" Malus Crabapple each growing nicely.

My guess is a combination of too much water followed by too much sun and heat (steady 90's, nothing legendary though!)

Oh, I did replant it someplace with more shade and less water.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
that soil .. hey ... looks pretty clay-ee ....

do you ever plant high to help with the water issues >???

otherwise.. beech is the slowest tree i grow ... and i guess that would go with the roots also ...

i dont think the heat/sun.. would be an issue to a beech with a proper root mass ...

though with the white edged.. i would try to plant it in a spot that has full sun.. until late afternoon.. when temps spike ....

i took my small babes quite a number of years.. to not burn to a crisp every summer .... and even though they dont crisp like they used too ... they are not a pretty tree by late aug. in my area ...

ken
Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
Original Author
13 years ago
I don't plant high often.

Figure it might make a difference now but in ten years the tree will have to tolerate all the clay and water unless I just build a hill.

Is that bad clay compared to the rest of the country? The tree's new spot (pictured) is mid hill and has thinner top soil than down at the bottom where I dug it up. Spot it came from was just wet. About a foot down I could watch the water drain from the ground as I dug it up.

The tree thanks you for the kind words. Hopefully I didn't stress it out too much with the early transplant.
Related Discussions
What are signs of too much light for ang didieri?
Q
Comments (9)
Sorry, never got around to posting a pic. Too much work for me this week, and not enough presents purchased (actually, still not enough... oops). The brown spots didn't progress into anything after I took it away from the lights and separated it from the case for a few days. I decided to put it back in the case, but further away from the lights and water loving pleurothallis grobyi (with 18 spikes now... wow!) and more in path of the fan. It is not potted, but mounted. I'll be keeping an eye on it. The new leaf still looks good. I have the lights on a great portion of the day, because when I didn't have a a timer, citrata and kirkii were getting lit 24-7, and I wanted to wean them off it, not jump down to 12-14 all of a sudden. Sooo... it's more like 18 right now. I feel like I should take it down a few hours, but everything is doing so well, it feels cruel to do so. And I'm feeling superstitious about getting flowers on citrata... it spiked while under 24-7 lighting, and it's doing well on 18hrs. I've never seen it flower yet, so... don't want to mess with things until it does. Is this bad? And the 18 spikes on grobyi... I want to see those flower too. Lastly, I'm finding it rather therapeutic myself... I thought I'd mention the 18 hrs part, now that Mr B said 12-14 hrs of what I described was a bit too much... I'm guessing 18 hrs of that is more than a bit too much... whoops...
...See More
how much water is too much water?
Q
Comments (2)
As much as they need. When the plants are small, water when the first inch or so of the top soil is dry, this could be everyday if the weather is warm or windy. As they grow, you water at greater intervals and you water deeper to encourage the roots to grow down and out - tomato roots can extend 6' except when in containers of course. If you water too much, the plants produce vegetative growth, stems and foliage. If there is any risk that their lives are going to end (stress) i.e. drought, flowers and fruit are produced. So don't make them too happy, but don't stress them so far that they can't recover. Growing them fast (lots of water and fertilizer) can lead to predatory insects, wind breakage and collapse, growing them hard (moderate water and fertilizer) leads to longer lived plants and reproduction (flowers/fruits). So, there is no substitute for daily observation and accessment of the weather and soil conditions. Also, veggies and fruit given the time to grow slowly absorb more minerals from the soil and have a higher nutritional content. Isn't that a good reason to have a home garden (good taste too)?
...See More
Are they dying due to lack of water or too much?
Q
Comments (10)
Which direction does that wall face? I have a similar wall that faces south, so it receives full blazing sun from morning til night. The thing is, there is actually quite a small volume of soil in there and because of that it heats up very quickly and mine almost always stays dry- those blocks absorb every degree of the heat, and they hold on to it. You've got brick reflecting heat, a sidewalk reflecting heat, and the wall itself absorbing every bit of sun and heat it sees. I started out with the plants I thought would look nice but soon found out that putting anything even remotely water loving was a very bad idea- it's just next to impossible to keep it moist enough to suit them. You can wage the war continually and have tired looking plants all summer or you can choose more drought tolerant plants that will always look good and are easy keepers. It's up to you but I would be changing out those plants this fall for something more suited to the conditions. Perhaps some dwarf conifers, some small broadleaved evergreens, something trailing, and some perennials for color, but all drought tolerant things that will thrive instead of merely survive. I'd be using the time between now and fall researching and sourcing appropriate plants. We all have these visions of what plants we want where and how we want our gardens to look, but you have got to work with the conditions you have instead of fighting them. It makes the work easier, and the gardens look better in the long run.
...See More
American Larch sign of too much shade?
Q
Comments (22)
Wow beng, great links. Although I cannot help but have a touch of skepticism about the one in MoCo! Since we know there are plantations of European and perhaps to a lesser extent, Dunkeld or Japanese larch in the Northeast (I myself was shocked to see a large grove of L. decidua in central PA once) - is it possible there was some hybridization that was difficult to spot in the offspring? Just an idea - I'm shocked to see one of the most "boreal" North American trees growing in muggy MoCo. Of course it could be similar to my theory of "our" 3 east coast semi-mature monkey puzzles. The extent ones have to be lucky genetic outliers than have increased phytophthora resistance. People have probably been bringing larches back from trips to the northeast for decades. Captivated by them on vacations to cool places. Only a few survived when brought back. (even my Mom in rural North Carolina, with a typical middle class background and not the daughter of a doctor or lawyer, went to the Maine coast a couple summers in the 50s to get away from the heat! An interesting book idea would be how American vacationing patterns and seasonal migrations have changed over the years. Some on the east coast are fascinating. A friend of the family was a retired Doctor and his wife who took his winters in Florida, spring and early summer in Norfolk, and summer and early fall at a cabin in the Virginia mountains! There's a wealthy Italian family in Annapolis, MD, who I've been told have a palatial McMansion in a regular tract development, and a house on the Bay only 10 miles or so away, where they only stay in summer LOL. But as usual I digress!)
...See More
mainegrower
13 years ago
If the beech was pot grown or bare root, the roots would have had a very difficult time growing into the surrounding clay. Pot grown trees have adapted to the porous, likely peat/bark based planting mix used in containers. A saturated, oxygen deficient clay soil prevents the roots from growing.

I am well aware - if a bit skeptical - about the current thinking that trees are best planted in unamended soil. When the soil is like yours and you're dealing with a less than robust species, amendment seems appropriate. The key is creating a large enough area of amended soil - 4' in diameter is probably a minimum. A lot of work to be sure, but... If the water table is particularly high in the planting area, then raising it is necessary.
gardener365
13 years ago
I would try again. Your soil looks fine. At worst case scenario you have loamy clay. Plant it up higher as suggested and mulch it.

Dax
gardener365
13 years ago
Smell test: to know if a plant has lost roots due to rot/too much water... the rootball will smell like that of a rotting odor.

Dax
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
Figure it might make a difference now but in ten years the tree will have to tolerate all the clay and water unless I just build a hill.

===>>> right presumption .... wrong conclusion ...

the babe .... does NEED THE DIFFERENCE RIGHT NOW .... so you are correct ...

but in 10 years ... IT WILL HAVE PUT ITS ROOTS were ever it feels was most proper ....

given a good 'establishment' period.. MOST trees will cope with the given situation ...

in clay ... drainage is the issue ... as roots need air as much as water ... and by elevating them above the grade.. you give a small plant.. a small area .. to get established..

and once it does... it will cope in the long run ...

i will leave it to others to define specifically whether beech is problematic.. i am speaking more of planting protocol rather than the specific tree ...

did you mention an oncoming first child .... if so ... GOOD LUCK!!!!

ken

Lack of roots a sign of too much water

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
Original Author

Related Discussions

mainegrower

gardener365

gardener365

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Lack of roots a sign of too much water

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St LouisOriginal Author

Related Discussions

mainegrower

gardener365

gardener365

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
Original Author