Then you would need four forums. Cool weather roses, warm weather roses; cool weather antiques and warm weather antiques. No wait, maybe six, because some of both categories would do well in both....

Think of all the people you would not meet if everyone went off on into their own geographical corner and refused to associate with those from another geographical corner.

And while zone does have impact on roses, much of what we learn on this forum has nothing to do with zone, but everything to do with cultivation, experience, experimentation, etc.

I check out the zone when someone asks a question about a rose, especially a tender rose, but that doesn't stop my interest in the thread. I've picked up some incredibly useful information on threads with zone 5 posters.

Let me point out, for instance, that Buck roses were bred to do well in the colder zones, but many are outstanding roses in my zone. I have an ever increasing collection of them and they are an excellent addition to my garden.

If I ignored cold zoners I would never have met Karl or learned all the things about rose cultivation that he knows. Other than winterizing techniques, the things Karl can teach you about rose cultivation apply to all zones.

The forum division between modern roses and antique roses has always made sense, but even these bleed into one another nowdays: (i) a lot of people grow both; (ii) and a lot of roses are being bred that could be classified as either, i.e., the shrub roses and DA roses that behave and look like antiques, but are modern roses.

As Jody said, it's not that simple. I live in a warm zone and California is a warm zone but we don't have the same diseases, pests, climate and can't necessarily grow all the same roses! So then we would have to seperate into eastern warm climate, western warm climate,......you see how this keeps going? Besides, I love seeing and hearing about all those Gallica's, Alba's and such that aren't happy here :-)

Carol

Two different rose worlds, and I've lived in both. I like reading your posts as I am notalgic sometimes for the roses I grew in Ohio. I'm enough of a rose nut to want to hear what you're doing up there, Jim, in addition to what Jody and Carol are doing in climates that are closer to mine. Now let me tell you about hot/cold/DRY/alkaline north Texas. Same zone as here, but way different!

And then there would be the problem of those who live in "transition" zones like I do--not quite northern, not quite southern, but a little of both. Where would we go?

Kate

I agree with everything Jody said. I enjoy reading posts from people of all zones and not every question or remark is related to zones.

I once brought up the subject of starting a colder zone rose forum. I still think it would be a good idea, especially if it attracts new people to the forum who are looking for information on varieties/cultivation of roses in the north.

The concensus seemed to be that people didn't want the rose forums split into more subsections due to fear of losing posters to another forum. I really don't think that's founded, as I know I would click every day on "roses", "antique roses" and "cold climate roses" if there were such a forum. And still glean information and actively post to all three as the subject pertained. I would still be interested in reading and seeing pics of tea roses, as I can grow them in pots. And read about different HTs, as my client doesn't mind growing them as annuals. But it would be really fun to also get into more in-depth discussion about what northerners are growing, and what's working out for them.

But then again, I pushed Spike for a "Maine Gardening" forum, as it seems the New England forum is mostly made up of people from the Boston area and southern New England. He created one for us, but there hasn't been near as much traffic as I had hoped.

It's possible to have decent discussions here on what works in the colder parts of the northeast. However, the person starting the thread has to be very explicit on who they want to hear from and who they don't want to hear from. It's fairly rarely done, and usually by people who have recently started a similar thread that simply confused them because of too much conflicting information.

I do actively trying to keep people who post rose question in the New England Forum *in* the New England Forum because you really do need extremely good mental filters to get reliable information from here.

I tend to agree that it isn't all that simple. In my zone, I'm between the warm and the cold. There are roses that grow well for me that also grow in zones 4 and 5 as well as roses (other than teas) that grow well in warmer climates. If I need opinions on how roses do I often check out the folks from the zones around mine.

I also visit local botanical rose gardens for roses that do well in my zone. I've had good luck this way and have about 200 roses that are mostly all impressive and do well for me.

Well many good points. I was only half serious, still since Austins were included on the Antique side it sort of compromised the content there.

So get rid of that, merge it into Roses, all zones, and make a new one Cold Zones only, say Z6 and lower?? No restriction on browsing both!

At least require a clear mention of the zone of the poster. How many times have I started to read a post only to find I can't grow that rose because it is too tender! And how often do their observations on rose growing pertain to mine?

I've learned about a lot of exceptional roses that are tender that with a bit of work can overwinter here (in pots in the garage or really, really well protected in the ground). If they're exceptional roses, then I try them.

Also, when my roses are frozen popsicles I can look at, learn about, and enjoy roses from the warm climes. Keeps me going! :)

I'm really happy with how things are set up as is! :)

Carol

It has been one of my pet peeves, and I once started a thread to remind people about it: please make sure your zone is included with your post. Even better, also include your region or state, as zone 5 CO is probably a lot different than zone 5 ME.

Excellent point, veilchen. I think we should all have our zone and location (state?) included in our I.D. that would solve that problem.

But as for all these ideas for new forums? We already have too many splintered forums. And how much traffic to they get as a result? I enjoy reading posts for folks from all over because it improves my general education about varying rose-growing conditions. I don't even have to be able to apply it directly to my own situation to find it interesting. What ever happened to the simple joy of learning for expanding our understanding?

Of course, if we want answers to location-specific questions, we should spell that out in our post. But splitting everything up into multiple forums just makes that much more work to find discussions we're interested in, or for that matter, to stumble into some discussion that we would not otherwise have realized was interesting to us.
--Incidentally, I keep checking the mini rose forum, and I've seen very little activity on it. Posts have sat there for days and days with no responses. Sad.

I agree with mike_in_new_orleans: the more forums, the less activity on each forum & the more you have to look around for info.

And dare I say, at the rate the planet is warming up, you may find yourself in an unexpectedly warm zone soon, Jim!

I'm with the majority. I rarely check other forums (except Sansevierias) because the ones I've looked at have little traffic. This is probably why other topics sometimes wander into the rose forums: posters know they'll get a response. I had to restrain myself recently from starting a thread in the antique roses forum about my Salvia guaranitica. I'm also one of the lucky gardeners who can grow cold- and warm-climate roses, so Jim's proposed division would just give me two forums to check, and supply me with doubts as to where I should place my own posts. I think the current arrangement is sensible. I sympathize with Jim's difficulties concerning getting information on roses for truly cold climates, however, and do wish there were more threads on the subject.

Melissa

OK, I resign!

Bad idea.

However as Veilchen said please identify where you live.

Now including Austin's with Antiques! Just because they look like "some" Antiques.

What a dumb idea is that. One of the great attributes of Antiques is that they have been around for along time: therefore they have withstood the test of time and the trials of different climates and soils. Can you say the same thing about David Austins roses?

Another point is that by having a separate forum for Antiques it gives special attention to them which otherwise may get indunated with comments about the new. And unproven!

It reminds me of a Kordes rose I once was enthralled with, I even forget its' name, died and isn't even offered anywhere anymore. So obviously is the fate of those unmentioned new roses.

Finally, there are of older roses that look like Austins but are not included. Take Alchymist for example. Or Magenta, really a lowzy rose but still it looks like an A. And others.

Jim, your posting is a excellent reminder to folks to be sure to put their zone in their forum title. It really helps to know where they're coming from, and what climate conditions they garden in.

Mike made a good observation, particularly about the minis. Many rose growers grow a few minis but since they are almost an after thought, they usually don't spend much time at the mini forum. It would be interesting to see the number of responses to a mini question from both this forum and the mini forum. And to the point of Jim's post, if we split it up between warm/cold climates that would mean that I might have missed that nifty post about Karl and his winterizing efforts. Interesting to me even if it's not applicable in my zone.

Jim, Alchymist got a lot of 'coverage' lately, so one cannot complain about missing out on this one.

Magenta is just coming back, I certainly would have posted more about this rose if our weather had been just a bit better. By the way, how is your maiden doing? Mine grew over 4' in its first season and flowered well till we were allowed to water.

Jim, I moved from Upstate NY ten years ago to get away from all the cold, all the snow, and the high taxes. Now I live in Florida, and love it most of the year, but I found I've just reversed the "bad" seasons. I also miss all my grandkids, AND having land.

If my husband and I can figure out how to swing it, I wouldn't mind buying some land back up there and becoming a "snowbird" sometime in the future. I'd have the best of both worlds then!

Therefore, I am also looking for information on what antique roses thrive up there, and can be grown no-spray. There doesn't seem to be much information about the cold zone roses. Wow, wouldn't it be neat if I could enjoy that kind of variety in roses some day?

Sandy

For rose recommendations, I've gotten the most helpful suggestions from people in my exact microclimate.

Even a few miles inland from me the climate is much drier, with greater temperature extremes. That makes a big difference in how specific roses do, especially in regards to fungus diseases.

I list my location with my screen name.

ceterum

I bought two Magenta's, one a bare root from Hortico the other from WI roses. The H one has barely survived in the ground. The maiden did better in a pot but not much. It bloomed briefly in the summer. My previous own root from Vintage started great and then went downhill after that. We'll see how they do next year!

My two cents worth (which most likely is worth even less adjusted for inflation) as I have lived in both Florida & Massachusetts - is that I much prefer the Northeast (change of seasons, cost of living IS lower (well, it can be!), people moving out instead of in, etc.)

Can you recommend some low cost real estate areas in New York? Retirement looms and I'd like to plan, as from my perspective (apart from property), New York state has tax advantages.

I've heard there are some such around, say, Binghamton or Rochester or the Fingerlakes, or Schenectady? It would be nice to have some land and be able to plant what I want without constraint.

It's not cheap around here. We live within weekend distance from NYC so we have many city people who keep the prices higher for us locals.