Max,
I'm a bit warmer, but not much.

Of the chinas on your list, Ive got and I'm very pleased with Cramoisi Superieur, Comtesse du Cayla (the best), and Old Blush. I actually just added Smith's Parish this fall, and so far it looks like a winner.

On your wish list, I've got all of them, and they do very well, but Rose de Rescht seems to get mor BS than the others...These are all still too young to make good judgements on, however.
Robert

You have some great repeaters on your list!! Rose de Rescht is well worth having but has not been a big producer for me. IMHO beetle traps will bring you beetles from miles around and you're better off without them. Milky spore is effective-- not an instant cure but it'll turn your situation around. I have gone house to house in my neighborhood talking my neighbors OUT of putting out traps next season. People did that on 3 sides of me and I have never, ever had such a severe infestation. Where I work at the arboretum, they've had roses for 10 years and the beetles were nothing like they were in this new subdivision.

I bought several bands of China roses at the Vintage unloved roses sale and a found rose named Huilito was full of buds which of course I pinched off, and ever since I've had to keep pinching off buds, it seems like almost every other day; I've never really seen anything quite like it. It has very full lavender flowers and I can't wait to see it bloom next year. If nothing else, it's a good feeling to help preserve a mystery rose.

Ingrid

Thanks for the input guys, I'll keep the ones I listed in mind then, and will add some of the chinas, especially Comtesse du Cayla, that rose looks special.

I was only attracted to Rose de Rescht because of the bloom shape, but that's easy to give up, I like all kind of bloom form and I just bought tree peonies, so I won't be in a shortage of big flowers.

Huilito is a TX Found Rose, I think.
The one I really wanted was Old Gay Hill, but by the time I got there, there were none left of that, darnit.
I did bring home from ARE a lovely "Emmie Gray."

Jeri

gruss an aachen? i think it's a china bengal or the first floribunda an english rose perhaps??

Gruss an Aachen is an interesting cross of Frau Karl Druschki (a Hybrid Perpetual) and Franz Deegen, a 1901 Hybrid Tea Rose.
No one's ever really known where to put it, and it's been stuck in several different categories.
It was even called a Polyantha for a while!
Based on habit, it's probably closer to being a Floribunda than anything else.
Nice rose. Has a few problems in my climate and conditions, but it is a lovely rose.

Jeri

Rose de Rescht was a BS magnet fo me.

I think Max had previously resolved to ignore some BS on 'Rose de Resht' in order to enjoy its wonderful and incomparably scented blooms - it's a very tough rose in spite of the disease, even if that's a fairly big problem. I don't know of another rose with that fragrance.

'Fortune's Five-Colored Rose' and 'Old Blush' have been consistently good here, with 'Cramoisi Superieur' showing obvious signs of blackspot (10-20%) in a fairly moist environment without really going under. Some others you might really enjoy include 'Bengal Fire', which might simply be synonymous with 'Sanguinea' (I'd love to know more about that - Niche Gardens sells the one I'm talking about, for clarity's sake), which can out-Knock-Out Knock Out any day of the week with its shockingly immaculate leaves all season long. It's almost worth growing as a foliage plants for those drop-dead gorgeous leaden leaves. Spice is another one with fab resistance to black spot.

Japanese beetles tend to chew the flowers of most of these roses into tattered bits during the prime beetle season, but they haven't really done much damage to rose leaves around here. I would say that 'Mutabilis' makes their floral damage seem less obvious than some roses like Bengal Fire, either through sheer brute overproduction, or perhaps it's something about those twinkling colors, like some sort of macroscopic confetti, that utterly charms and fools the eye.

Stefan, I was considering it, but I'm just wanting to build a nice list to choose from, so I may or may not get it- if it's fragrance really is that divine then I might have to...but whatever the outcome of my purchases, I will have a have built a nice list to pine over all winter....that's my main goal! A big fat list.

Bengal Fire/Sanguinea is gorgeous! ON THE LIST IT GOES

lol

- Max

Some folks like Comtesse du Cayla, but not me really. It doesn't get blackspot, but the flowers really fade in my hot climate and the foliage always looked pale green no matter what I did, and then they'd turn yellow. It bloomed pretty well but the flowers didn't do it for me. I'm gonna try Clementina Carbonieri. This rose has nicer foliage in my eyes and larger flowers with more petals but a similar color scheme. It will be interesting to see how it does for me...

I grow my roses no-spray and ALL the chinas I've grown totally defoliated from BS and weakened and died over winter. Cramoisi Superior is among them. I tried a few different varieties over different sorts of winter, and some made it for a couple of years until they died.

On the other hand, my Marie Pavie is very disease resistant and hardy, and Rose de Rescht gets a little BS and/or crud but does not defoliate or weaken and keeps blooming like mad. I have multiples of both of these so would highly recommend them for this area. I also like Perle d'Or.

I think there is some variation in spotting from garden to garden - I've seen some wretched 'Marie Pavie' plants around the area, too. I could see 'Cramoisi Superieur' going either way depending on the exact growing conditions.

I almost forgot one that has absolutely captured my heart this season: 'White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth', which has also had an astonishing 0% black spot rate. The real reason to grow it is its graceful, lax habit, its ability to occasionally produce a wonderfully tobacco-laced tea scent (though you have to bury your nose in the nodding blooms to pick it up), and the color - which under certain conditions approaches a truly breathtaking lipstick red. 'Bengal Fire' flowers go from a watermelon-crimson opening color to a more dried-blood-shaded crimson as they age in the warm sun, a very interesting and certainly unique effect. 'Serratipetala' also has had virtually no spots here, but the plants haven't wowed me enough just yet to recommend them to others.

Stefan, I was looking at WPIRDM but was shy to mention it due to it's hardiness, I'm very indecisive when it comes to my zone, 6b-7a, and if I want to risk things, or not. I currently just planted a camellia though, Frost Princess, so if that makes it, I'll probably have the most confidence that I can grow anything ( that's not a good thing!)

I must be really ignorant of blackspot, because I swear not even the one cane wonder Queen Elizabeth gets it here.

I don't see why hardiness would be a problem for you - do you have any reason to believe it should be less hardy than other Chinas? You can always try winter protection if you absolutely must; I would only caution that you should start applying this in late winter when the temperature actually starts staying down consistently, because winters here can be so warm through January. My mother has had 'Mutabilis' for a number of years in a raised bed in Minnesota, and it always survives with mulch, having been deeply planted in the first place.

I dunno, most chinas seem to be closer towards the 7b-8a realm than 6b-7a, but then again, I did see a Mutabilis down at the Baltimore Zoo. So I guess more or less weary of their success rate- sounds incredibly variable in terms of performance.

I said I was incredibly indecisive, but it seems that for every yard there could be differing conditions that determine the health of the plant no-spray. Some might have better airflow than others I guess...

Okay, so I'm definitely going to try some of these out next year then, being paranoid about them doesn't help enjoying your hobby.

Another way to put it is that you never know what you may be able to do until you try. :-)

Jeri

You are quite right Jeri.