You might try 'Rose de Rescht'.

Jeri

Portland of Glendora (now thought to be Joasine Hanet) is a very tough albeit also thorny rose that has beautiful flowers that are extremely fragrant. It blooms best in the spring but then I never fertilized it or babied it in any way. It can get quite tall or can be kept pruned to a shorter size.

Ingrid

I don't know how the true portland roses would do, but I do know how Rose de Rescht does, I grew it in Florida and in East Texas (I was near Conroe), and it gets blackspot like mad, but if you sprayed it just kept going and blooming. RdR here is also more trouble than true portlands, which are totally trouble-free here. I think I had Glendora there, but not long enough to evaluate it before I moved away. I'd say it's not a true portland either.

--Ron

Portlands and Damask Perpetuals are usually lumped together these days since it is hard to tell where one starts and the other begins. They often have Damask crud issues and should be sprayed but in my garden Indigo and Jacque Cartier/Marchessa Boccella stand out for clean foliage and excellent rebloom. There is always Comte de Chambord as well. They are generally shorter stocky plants, very leafy and bushy with large fragrant flowers on short stems. They got pushed out by Hybrid perpetuals so there aren't alot of them left. Well worth growing I think since I like that bushy looking plant. I try just about everyone I see. I have no idea how they do with heat.

patricia

I used to love this class when I lived in a colder climate. Now there are so many other choices (for my no-spray garden), and they don't get the "crud" that the portlands seem to get here. I SPd Portland from Glendora after 2 years, it only bloomed once and then got the crud and looked horrible the rest of the year. The problem with the crud is that the leaves don't fall off like with blackspot, and it's such an eyesore. I had Marchessa Boccella in the ground, then in a pot for three years. Still I've got to ditch it too. The habit is so stiff and upright, not at all graceful or beautiful, and ugh, that crud. Stay with the Chinas, Teas and Noisettes.

On a side note, they were worthy to grow further north, maybe the crud fungus doesn't live there!

So far I've only tried COMTE DE CHAMBORD and JACQUES CARTIER/MARCHESSA BOCELLA.

COMTE DE CHAMBORD had large bright pink flowers with a powerful Damask fragrance. The flower form was loosely quartered and very beautiful. Vigor was disappointing as an own root plant in a container, but I attribute this trait more to my lack of care than the plant itself. Black spot resistance in my Maryland garden was poor, but that might not be your experience in Texas. Even with these faults I will definately try this rose again but only when I have an available spot in the garden.

JACQUES CARTIER/MARCHESSA BOCELLA was a much easier to grow rose. Good strong fragrance, nice compact growth habit (upright but slightly more bushy than the typical Floribunda), and reasonably clean foliage. I was especially pleased with the foliage: bright green, lush, with better than average resistance to black spot. The Mid-Atlantic has the highest black spot pressures in the country. In Texas, I believe this rose could be grown no-spray. The medium sized flowers lacked the UMPH factor of the previous rose though. I found the pink color to be rather ... well ... common. I also didn't like the elongated petals responsible for the bloom's scalloped edge. Frankly, the mature bloom looked ragged (and more like a mum than a rose). So I shovel pruned it.

Before you completely write off JC/MC, you ought to know that I'm extremely picky about flower form. There are a whole lot of roses out in the world that I want to try in my small yard so it doesn't take much for me to reach for the shovel.

Good luck with your choices,

Patrick

FWIW, Comte de Chambord, Marchessa Boccella, Portland from Glendora are all not true portlands, and could be subject to that "crud" on the foliage as well described elsewhere here. In northern California, the true portlands (like Duchess of Portland, Indigo, Bernard, Rose du Roi, Blanc de Vibert, Duchesse de Rohan and other suckering portlands) stay completely clean, and as Patricia noted, they're very nice and bushy.

--Ron

Judith, where you live in Texas is it high-humidity, like the Gulf Coast, or low humidity? I've grown OGR's in both north Texas (low humidity, good air circulation always) and coastal mid-Atlantic. Big difference in which roses do well! We're at the northern edge of zone 8 here; Rose de Rescht was unhealthy and did not bloom well nor repeat here, and Marchesa Bocella's flowers were all small and misshapen. Both plants are being replaced with teas.

I am about 2 hours NE from Houston. We do have high humidity here, but not as bad as the Gulf Coast. I purchased Jaques Cartier/Marchessa Bocella - it is still in a pot - I grew it years ago and remember it as a tall stiff upright plant with smallish pink blooms - I dont remember disliking it and thought I would try it again. I hear good things about Compte de Chambourd and want to try that one. But dont want to get into anything that is bad to blackspot,like Madame Issac Perriere - Hurricane Rita got that one and I didnt replace her. But I was just unfamiliar with the Portlands and dont seem to hear much about them and am getting a large area for old garden roses going, and thought I might try a few.......still open to suggestions on this class......Teas, chinas, noisettes do great here....., those are my mainstays - just wanted to try something different. I do spray, so if I found one I really loved....that would not be a problem. But Madame Issac was just covered with blackspot and was impossible to keep clean.......
Judith

Judith, I have Rose de Rescht, Rose du Roi, Indigo, and Comte de Chambord. Rose du Roi has been almost completely spotless here in the BS capital of the world. The rebloom is fair but she is only one year in the garden so that will probably improve as she gets established. Rose de Rescht gets some blackspot but shakes it off, grows new foliage and blooms all of the time here. Indigo keeps her leaves if sprayed and reblooms fairly well. CdC has gorgeous foliage (with spray) up until late summer and then he gets something I call brown crud on his leaves. It's not black spot and I'm not sure what it is but it's ugly. I cut those ugly leaves off and he grows new foliage and continues to bloom. The portlands (in my climate) all bloom better once they are established. I love these roses. They require a little extra care here but they are beautiful and fragrant. I may be wrong, but I believe that you have less black spot pressure in Texas than we have?

Carol

I love this class of rose because they stay short so they do well for me with winter protection. Somebody needs to go back and hybridize more of them that are true portlands.

You asked for photos so in the below link to an old thread you will find bloom photos of the ones I grow near the end. No leaf crud up here ... yet. Sydonie should not be in the class but I planted it originally there because I felt it was so close to being one. However it's height made a fool out of me and it belongs with the HP's.

Here is a link that might be useful: Riku's Portlands

It's all climate, isn't it?

Glendora is wonderfully healthy for me. I consider it an HP, not a Portland at all.

Rose de Rescht gets rust, but I keep it anyway. I had no idea anyone thought of it as less than a true Portland. I quite like this willing, fragrant rose.

I grow the Heirloom La Ville de Bruxelles, which I have been told is actually Comte de Chambourd. It gets a disease I don't recognize, perhaps the brown crud described by others on this thread. It may exit well my garden one of these days. Earlier in my rose growing career I tried Jacques Cartier but it had the same problem and I did not keep it.

I found Indigo to be a feeble plant, totally lacking in any vigor whatsoever. Eventually it withered away altogether. Rose du Roi was not quite as bad, but I eventually pulled it up in disgust.

I want to like these roses. I like the idea of them, but the reality of growing them has failed to impress me. Rose de Rescht is the sole exception.

Rosefolly

HA! If you think Indigo was bad for YOU, you should have seen it here! It mildewed so badly that the few blooms it produced couldn't open. I'm sure it is a fine rose SOMEWHERE, but that somewhere is not HERE.

One Portland that no one mentions, but which I like quite a lot is 'Marbree.' The name means "marbled," I am told -- but the rose is a deepish pink, speckled with lovely little blush spots.

Jeri

Interesting Indigo is feeble in California, here my multi-flora grafted versions are the ones which have the least damage to canes after winter (with burial maybe 30% to 40% canes damage max), first to bud out and bloom ... of course it does not grow much higher than 2 feet and wants to "flop" so I trellis it (2 foot trellis :-))

My grafted lame ducks were Joasine Hanet (PFG)and Arthur Sansal (tried 3), and they were weak plants and croaked. Presently "not replacable" in Canada for grafted.

I must live in the California climate that Indigo likes, My Summers are very dry and hot. I had Indigo with some afternoon shade to protect the color, when I moved him to full sun this rose really took off. This rose is now about 3+ feet tall and at least as big around, I had two new suckers this Summer and haven't decided what I should do with them. It has never had any crude or mildew, and I don't do anything special to it.
Diana

Neither Arthur de Sansal or Marbree has done really well for me. They both barely hang in there though when Arthur has a flower it is so lovely. Maybe another new spot. My biggest dog is Miranda. It completely defoliates and the bloom is corespondingly meager and yet I have heard that for others it is superior. Indigo grows very much like a Gallica here. The foliage is so lush it almost overwhelms the flowers. Panachée de Lyon has a wonderful spring bloom but I get very little repeat. I keep hoping mine will revert. I have to say that when Rose de Rescht grows well and is kept disease free it is the Queen of the lot. I have a new baby Rose du Roi. We will see if it is the King.

patricia

I had grown 'Indigo' for well over a year in a pot here - it grew and bloomed almost like a floribunda when cut after the flowers fell apart (which they did rather quickly in the heat, like within a day). It didn't have so much as a speck of anything on its leaves. When it arrived from California, it was sick looking and anemic - some warmth, good soil and food restored it to such good health I had to give it to my mother in Minnesota because I couldn't give it the bigger pot it needed.

'Marchessa Boccella' is spotless up north, and the blooms are absolutely charming - I don't think everyone is as particular as Patrick about mathematically perfect flower form. Some of the flowers can be extremely wide in favorable conditions. As others noted, it's supposed to be a hybrid perpetual, and it is certainly not a short rose.

'Rose de Resht' is a trooper, doing well in spite of black spot and crud (which we do get up north, by the way, so it isn't a latitude issue!). This one is also thought to perhaps be a hybrid perpetual of sorts; I don't know about that, but the China background is pretty obvious when you look at the plant.

I have a supposed 'Duchess of Portland' at home, but I wonder about its identity because it wants to grow large and only blooms once a year. It isn't a plant I'd particularly recommend to anyone, if that's all there is to it.

Carol, do you know which 'Rose du Roi' clone you're growing - the old one of commerce, or the "real" 'Rose du Roi' isolated from 'Pananchée de Lyon' at Vintage?

Stefan, I expect it is probably the old one of commerce but I am not sure. I got my Rose du Roi from Pickering. Whichever it is, it has been clean, repeats well and I really like it! I have no idea if a photo of a bloom will help you to identify which it is but here's a picture of my RdR.

{{gwi:237263}}

Carol

Carol, I also have the Rose du Roi from Pickering and it is the one Vintage calls 'of commerce' My child is the reversion from vintage. I hope for better repeat. Something no has mentioned here is rose care and it is worth saying that over all Portlands are like Bourbons-they need feeding up to perform. It is best to give them prime spots and lots of food and water. Indigo seems to be fine with the same neglect I give my gallicas since it is in a bed with some of those. Miranda is there too and maybe I need to rethink that.

patricia

Ditto for my RdRoi being from Pickering, and I must add for cold zone folks it is very tender. The closes I have come to reversion with Panachée de Lyon is in the picture with maybe one of two petals. This rose, and I assume I have the right one, is a pure pink and when in full bloom is spectacular and pure eye candy to me.

As to Marabree, sorry I can take it or leave it due to the bloom form and bush.

... but what has driven me nuts in my quest for completing the Portland collection from Canadian sources is every time I order Miranda from Pickering in the past I get it labelled right but the rose is "Belle d' Crecy" which took me awhile to realize what it was until Lorrie id it ... happened again last year ... no questions asked credit given.

Interestingly to me and my needs, the Duchess of Portland is significantly less tender though not in the same class as Indigo among the Portlands.

The Duchess is one of the very very few tender roses I have been able to grow as an own root and it has flourished (bush is 5 years old). Last year it actually repeated.

This thread is about spent so in the interests of closing it off in style, with the hope you might experiment with at least one Portland in Texas, I attach this early bloom photo of the Portland bed this spring ... my favourite and most babied bed in the gardens.

{{gwi:321772}}

Thanks for all the great information on Portlands! I have Jaques Cartier in a pot I got from Chamblees, and plan to get Comte de Chambourd, Rose de Rescht and Arthur Sansal looks beautiful, also Miranda. Sorry I havent chimed in, but had to have unexpected knee surgery the day before Thanksgiving, broke my kneecap in a freak fall in my horse barn. Now dont know how much digging I can do, but plan to follow orders so I can get after it in the spring. I have a great place for these roses - sun until mid-day then much afternoon shade. I have just whacked some crepe myrtles that will give lots more sun and these roses are going to be on my list to purchase in the spring. Its a large area, so can have some different things, and these portlands look beautiful. Thanks you all for the great information, and hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Judith

I was thinking of getting Marchessa Bochella but I don't know much about the brown crud. Is the crud on Portland or Damasks too?