If you weren't so particular about this plant producing fruit of some kind, you could probably grow one of the hardy palms. There is quite a palm contingent in the gardenweb. Do a search for 'Palms' in the Tennessee Forum, for example. There are some folks who have totally broken the climate barrier over there! If you were to do a search in 'all the forums' using ' hardy palms' as your key words, you'd be much rewarded. Do you know how to do a gardenweb search?

However, the fact that this site won't get much sunlight in the winter is a serious deterrent. I don't see much promise for the two plant you mention, since you aren't able to bring them inside for protection during the winter.

You might want to consider a 'Butia capitata' palm, commonly called a Pindo or Jelly palm. Don't know where you are in Alabama, but there are many being grown successfully here in the B'ham area, and with the extra protection that your house provides, it should do well for you long term. I've had one for three years now, and mine was untouched by my low of 15F this winter. Its planted totally out in the open & I offerred it no extra protection. There is a huge specimen at the Birmingham zoo that has been there for years.

The lack of direct sun in the winter shouldn't be a problem as long as you plant it in a raised bed with good drainage. When mature this palm should produce fruit which some folks make into a jelly, hence the name 'jelly palm'. If this palm interests you & you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I can provide a few area sources for it, as well as other palms that are cold hardy for this area.

I can attest for the rather nice flavor of the fruit, if you can get to it before all the wasps and bees do! (That's my memory of them, having lived along the SC coast.) lol

John, I thought of that palm but wondered about the lack of sunlight all winter long. What do you think of those conditions?

My first thought was that I had had enough palm trees for life (almost 20 years in SO Cal), but a Jelly Palm does sound promising.

15' tall, canopy about 6' in radius -- might be the perfect size. Encouraging even more wasps to hang out near my house doesn't sound as good!

Is the canopy high enough to walk/sit under? I'm thinking of whatever tree or shrub I put there, raising a round bed up enough to make a bench underneath as the centerpiece of the patio area. Right now it is a very ugly lot of pea gravel; fortunately there is plastic underneath so I should be able to get most of the gravel up and not have it compacted in the soil.

I'm up in Hartselle, north of B'ham by about 70 miles -- sort of between zone 7a and 7b.

I guess a cold hardy citrus tree is another option. I had planned on a dwarf citrus tree for the front that could come into my sunny south-facing foyer in the winter, but I prefer leaving stuff where it is instead of making one more chore for myself! The sunny foyer might be a better place for a container growth bay tree.

I didn't mean to dissuade you with the wasp remark, sorry. It's just that wasps are highly attracted to the overripe fruit. I'm not all that sure that yours would even flower and fruit in that location, and certainly not for many years. So forget I even said that, lol!

Is there a particular reason why you specify that your tropical tree be a fruit producer? There are some much hardier palms than Butia.

I can't believe that I didn't mention this earlier....there's a nursery outside of Huntsville (Owen's Crossroads) that specializes in cold hardy tropicals. A MUST see for you, I should think.

I'll attach the link for you. In the meantime, have you considered BANANA? Not that you'd harvest fruit, but you'd sure see some neat flowers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click here

Is there a particular reason why you specify that your tropical tree be a fruit producer?

Well, it doesn't need to produce fruit, exactly. A culinary leaf or berry would be completely fine, for example the laurel bay mentioned. A medicinal plant or something I could make tea out of would also fit.

It's more of a philosophical choice to plant only "useful" plants. That usually means everything has to have either one really important purpose (like fresh homegrown tomatoes!) or a dual-purpose plant, like a honey bee forage plant or something that attracts beneficial insects that is also aesthetically pleasing.

In this case, the driving feature is aesthetics for a relaxing spot for me (and it will be a cat-safe enclosure), but I'd like to keep with the "useful" theme. Hmmm... I wonder if you can cook in these banana leaves?

Next time I am up in Huntsville with time to spare I will definitely check out that nursery.

John, I thought of that palm but wondered about the lack of sunlight all winter long. What do you think of those conditions

Rhizo, that's why I suggested that a Pindo be planted in a raised bed affording good drainage. I think it would be fine in a protected location with little direct sunlight, as long as it isn't sitting there all winter with wet feet. I'd also recommend that they start with the largest specimen that their budget will allow.

Will a Pindo provide a tall enough canopy to sit/walk under? No, not for many, many years, unless you're willing to spend big $$$ for a huge specimen that would most likely have to be professionally installed. The best trunking cold hardy palm that will grow quickly would be a windmill (Trachycarpus fortunei), and it would indeed be more forgiving of your winter low light conditions. Two other bush, shrub type palms that would still give you a tropical look would be a sabal minor or a needle palm (Rhapidophyllum hystrix). They're not trunking, but are extremely cold hardy & would still thrive in spite of a lack of wintertime direct sunlight.

If you decide to visit ColdPalms as Rhizo suggested, I would strongly recommend that you take along a good picture of the area you're wanting to landscape & of course detail the growing conditions to them as you have here. They're very knowledgeable about palms & have a huge inventory to choose from. I'm sure they would be able to help you select the right one for your location.

Hmmmm, alabamanicole. That's an interesting philosophy. I'd change your word 'useful' though, to something more pertinent to you. I can think of few plants that aren't useful.

A great many (most?) plants are of great ecological importance as shade providers, carbon warehouses, host for a vast number of moth or butterfly species, cover and/or food for birds, water and soil erosion control, dust catchers, noise buffers, air coolers, etc. lol

Anyway...interesting.

John: we are re-doing the landscaping at the home we moved into a couple of years ago. Having spent most of my adult life in coastal SC (Beaufort County), I am pretty much determined to save a spot for a palm. It will be interesting, that's for sure.