In mild climates (such as mine, in coastal Southern CA), with a long growth season, in long hours of light, SOME Austin roses just keep on growing.
Plants that are "supposed" to be upright and 5 ft tall become leggy monsters with 12-foot climbing canes.
I suspect that might not happen in Z5, but I'm not sure.

Jeri

I'm far from zone 5 but it seems to me that people have complained of poor rebloom with Gertrude Jekyll. I suspect she may also be one of the octopus Austins. I avoid those like the plague but apparently they can be satisfactory as climbers.

Ingrid

I know people here in SoCal who have gotten good repeat bloom from Gertrude. To do so they seem to have cut her back ruthlessly.
This works for exhibition, particularly inland.
In my dry climate, few roses tolerate it well, and it does not make for a pretty shrub -- so I don't do it.
But I wonder if, in a Z5 climate, she might be different?

Jeri

Jeri,

I'm so glad that you added the comment: few roses tolerate it well, and it does not make for a pretty shrub. I'm assuming you're talking about cutting back ruthlessly. I don't know whether this applies only to roses grown in a dry climate (I strongly doubt that), but, I've resisted cutting back my roses "ruthlessly." I don't think I want ugly shaped bushes for a few more flowers.

Robert

This is very much a case of know who is saying what and where they are. Here, 'normal' Austins are generally pruned to a foot high (or less) by winterkill, and I've never seen one more than six ft tall. I've gotten rid of every own-root Austin I've ever tried due to a lack of vigor.

Thanks for the responses. She really wants something with an old rose fragrance that reblooms. She's also thinking about portland roses. Would these be a better choice? (Jacques Cartier, Rose de Recht mainly.) She has hot summers, cold winters and lots of snow. She's also thinking rugosas might do well, but which ones have the best frangrance?

I've resisted cutting back my roses "ruthlessly." I don't think I want ugly shaped bushes for a few more flowers.

*** Our conditions aren't everyones.

Our water is of poor quality.
Rain is increasingly scarce.
Our climate IS increasingly dry, but also coastal, often cool and humid.
The combination, for whatever reasons, results in roses that respond poorly to most conventional pruning -- it works better for us to remove old canes completely, rather than cutting canes back.
Many of the Austins have not responded well to that (some have) -- and, really, we have better luck with Teas and Noisettes and the like. Those roses LOVE not being cut back, and bloom more generously in response.

And the truth is that, at this point in my life, I'd rather grow fewer, bigger roses, rather than cutting plants back to fit more of them in.

But I am fully aware that things can be done differently in different environments.

Jeri

In my long day benign climate the Austins not only can get huge but the canes themselves are often massive and fat so when you cut them back you do indeed get an 'ugly shrub' that is hard to deal with-not to mention the thorns...I am a big fan of the Portlands/Damask perpetuals. Indigo is a wonderful hardy rose with fabulous fragrance and excellent repeat. Jacque Cartier/Marchesa Boccella is really good too but my latest find is Pergole that I got grafted from Pickering. It is still in a pot but had the most amazing fall bloom...I can hardly wait to see what it will do in the ground. The scent is to die for. These roses are listed as hardy to zone 5. They dont need any massive cutting back.

patricia

In my long day benign climate the Austins not only can get huge but the canes themselves are often massive and fat so when you cut them back you do indeed get an 'ugly shrub'. . .

*** Patricia -- Do you get that "candelabra" effect, where a cluster of scrawny little canes emerge where you cut the big cane back?
That's one thing we see, and it really IS ugly. :-(

Jeri

Lavender lass, zone 4 WA, most of the above comments and advice don't pertain to you in a cold zone, except what Mad Gallica posted. I grow lots of Austins in zone 5, including 2 Gertrude Jeckyl, and they all get winterkilled down to a few inches after every winter, so pruning them to shape year after year isn't an issue.

Many Austins, by midsummer, will send out what some people call octupus canes, or Jolly Green Giant canes, certain hyper canes that grow much taller than the rest of the bush. I deal with these by pruning them back to below where I want them. Usually these canes grow back and I have to cut them back again.

Gertrude Jeckyl doesn't do this as much as some other Austins in my garden. And GJ does have less rebloom than most Austins, but pruning her back hard doesn't help as much as for those in warmer zones, as our growing season is so short, by the time she regrows and puts out buds it is late in the season. Still a lovely and fragrant rose though.

I grow Gertrude Jekyll and here in Oklahoma she sends out long canes 6-7 feet tall. What I like to do is peg the canes and let them bloom all along the laterals. this way it reblooms nicely also. I will post a picture latter.

Scott

Okay here are the photos of my pegged Gertrude Jekyll. You will have to look passed the cute kids (they are now 17 & 19). You'll see that I bent each of the canes over and pegged then down with a wire tent peg.

Scott

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Jeri...yes I get that on some of them and just big gnarly stumpy things that throw out more massive canes. As the shrub ages the inside gets really ugly when it is still too early to completely remove the cane. With the unpatented ones I just root and replace.

patricia

One of the things I like about Tea Roses is that they do best on little-or-no pruning.
If I just bend-and-snap deadhead, and don't prune until a cane is DEAD, I don't have that sort of problem.
They REALLY do not like to have canes cut into.

Jeri

I don't know for sure which of these are Austins without looking them up, am about some.

Crown Princess Margareta - 6 of those, yes, needs a lot of room, probably should be pegged or let climb, shoots out long canes, some short, and Jap beetle fav. I'm getting rid of them but want to enjoy one more bloom cycle next spring when they're best. Thorns are so bad I'm tired of trying to keep the weeds out, can mulch but want the space for more perennials.

Pat Austin - no but mine is not very robust and blooms shatter quickly, some still droop after first flush but gorgeous gorgeous otherwise. Another Jap beetle magnet.

Hyde Hall - yes but maybe because it doesn't get quite enough sun. It also has one cane that is too tall and thick, should have pruned it down last spring.

Enfant de France, no, got too crowded, didn't notice in time, shovel pruned it, sad because it was a beauty and reasonably hardy here.

Geoff Hamilton, no not at all, vase shaped, but is too tall for where it is, puts out pretty blooms but sporadic

Dark Lady, yes and no, think part of it stretches out for more sun which is very close to her, excellent rebloomer and Jap beetles bother it one of the least.

Charlotte, no, gets the most sun but another Jap beetle magnet, am keeping those two awhile longer, have to prune them back more than I'd like because they grow over the sidewalk, try to keep them tied back.

Wisley, no, either not very strong or most blooms droop, constant rebloomer.

Miss Alice, a dud, pretty peach but flat ugly blooms, probably doesn't like being so close to the French drain.

Evelyn, don't remember about her, didn't do much this year, beautiful last year.

Rosemoor, no but not doing much at all

That's it for the Austins or ones I'm not sure. Haven't posted much lately but I have two Hettie, love my clones of her more than the photo at RVR, am going to try to move or make her happier. She's not winter hardy but springs back quickly, got a couple canes come up through my clem that exceed 6'. Awakening, don't know what I'm going to do with those, good rebloomer, Jap beetles love it and would move it to where it could climb better but think the canes, though winter hardy to some extent, will never top my arbor and live.

My conclusion is that if you are going to grow Austins, they need lots of sun and space, difficult to interplant with perennials, and if you do, they should be the kind that are shorter and scramble/fill in.

With most of them, it's my inexpertise but I think some of it is I'm not going to do the kind of spraying you have to do to have nice roses around here except for ones like Carefree Beauty. This year was horrible for lots of new problems, too much rain, and just about every rose but the once bloomers got blackspot. One huge once bloomer got that or something similar and lost most of its leaves. The other once bloomers? Not a trace of it yet. Odd. But they take up valuable space to only bloom once then add no interest to the garden areas.

I'm really disappointed in my venture into roses except for very few, don't have the right kind of yard for them. Plus I would never buy any grafted roses again even though the own root take longer.

Just my 2 cents, my Benjamin Britten is throwing out those 12 foot canes in a 6a climate. I'm sure I'll have minimal dieback and plan on cutting it back to about 4 feet...treating it like an unruly HP.

Eric

I have grown Gertie for several years in central Illinois Zone 5. She usually suffers winterkill; some years it's worse than others because of the cold temps and requires more spring pruning. However, by the end of May, Gertie is growing quickly and is full of blooms. She is an Austin that has that 'old rose' fragrance that is to die for!!

Gertie is a rose that must be sprayed for BS if that is a problem in your area; otherwise she defoliates pretty bad. In order to get Gertie to rebloom, she demands a severe pruning after every flush; I prune her by at least 1/3 to 1/2. This keeps her long arms in bounds also.

My Gertie is several years old, and has gone own-root. She is a massive girl and is several feet wide now. She's quite a sight to behold when in bloom....and the fragrance! is to die for when I'm deadheading her. She's an Austin I would not be without.
-terry

A few of the Austins have an HT-ish growth habit; no "octopussing".

'Wife of Bath', 'Molineux', 'Perdita', 'Queen of Sweden', 'Jubilee Celebration', 'The Prince', and the like.

Because I have to prune her back so much in the spring (because of winter damage) my Gertrude stays a nice size. I do have to do a bit of summer pruning to keep all of her canes even (she'll shoot out a long one every so often). I get three to four good flushes of bloom each summer from Gertrude, and the scent is out of this world. I really love her. The Austins that I grow on my sheltered East wall do get huge, and I have to do major summer pruning or train them on pillars and tutours. Gertrude is in the meadow garden, which isn't as sheltered, so she keeps a more manageable size.

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Gertrude is lovely indeed! I didn't think it would grow in my zone; freezing to the ground is not that bad so long as they bounce back. Still I'm not tempted to add any more at this time. I'm in the same zone as Terry, don't know how I got plagued with BS, but I guess if I had more room to have roses the way they should be, I wouldn't let that alone stop me. I didn't want to be a sprayer, but I would spray conservatively for BS because letting it go, especially consecutive years in a row, cannot be good for the plant that is otherwise healthy.