I don't grow roses in Florida, so I don't know enough about the local conditions to give you an informed response. However, the leaves I see do not look seriously chlorotic to me. I'm not seeing the pale yellow coloring that I would expect of roses here that were lacking in nitrogen. Are you sure that nutrition is the problem? I'm not saying it isn't because I honestly don't know, but I think it is too soon to jump to conclusions.

And if it is a feeding issue, please don't be so hard on yourself, Sherry. I don't know any gardeners who have made mistake after mistake. Including me.

Rosefolly

Thanks, Rosefolly. You're right. Chlorosis isn't the problem with most of the roses, but what does absence of leaves mean if not lack of food? They've gone into dormancy or semi-dormancy for some reason other than water which they're getting. I'm going to have to get a soil test. Duh.

It is just very frustrating. Maybe I didn't think they were starving because I was distracted by the stinkbugs that were here all summer ruining the new growth. I don't know. Like that old commercial said, what's a mother to do?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, Let me say up front that I am no expert--far from it. However, I know a lady who grows a large number of OGRs on the other side of Atlanta. She was talking in August about defoliation from heat and dry conditions.

Makes sense to me, since this was an exceptionally hot summer here with not a lot of rain. Could it just be the heat?

I have no knowledge of the challenges of gardening in Florida. But from my experience here in Texas, defoliation does not always reflect nutritional status. Mine lose their leaves when it is too hot, too cold, from fungal conditions, transplant shock, dehydration, fertilizer burn, Roundup, just because, etc., etc.

My roses have gone through horrendous conditions this year, and I did not fertilize/amend at all after June, too hot. With the cooler conditions (meaning 80s & 90s), they have leafed out beautifully in a very short time, sans amendment, even in this sandy soil.

It is not you. Roses will do what they do, no matter what you do. I gave up trying to control them and we are both healthier and happier.

Hi Sherryocala: I feel bad about your roses. That looks more serious than a nutritional deficiency. Florida nematodes in the soil ?? (My wild guess !) I don't fertilize my 6 Knock-outs for the past 3 years, and they have tons of green foliage and blooms. We have over 40" rain fall per year. It looks like serious fungal infection or nematodes.

I'm sorry about your roses Sherry. Sometimes it's hard to figure these things out. Probably you didn't over do the alfalfa pellets. I read once that if you apply them too heavily that it's not good for the roses. I hope you don't have nematodes.

Sherry, it's hot in Florida during the summer. Toward the end of the summer my roses seem to go semi-dormant too.

Our native "soil" is very low in nitrogen. Your dilligent efforts to amend your soil probably have made it fertile enough to support daylillies and many other plants, but roses are very hungry. I also think that totally organic rose growing in Florida is very labor intensive and expensive because the amendments are sucked right down the the sandy drain so to speak. I use osmocote slow release and then add organic fertilizers and amendments whenever the mood strikes. As an experiment just try using some slow release non-organic fertilizer on one rose and see if it perks up.

Most importantly stop feeling personally responsible for every little garden problem. You've worked really hard on your garden and it looks beautiful. You'll feel better when the roses come back to life this fall :)

Many of my younger roses look like this by the end of summer; no leaves at all. We've cooled off some but a few still look like that, particularly my China roses. Also some teas. I figured it was the heat.

It's hard to tell from your photo, but the new foliage doesn't look "burned" or desiccated from salt burn. Plants in general, roses in particular, will shed all the foliage in response to severe water stress. The leaves transpire (sweat) water to help maintain the siphon from roots to cane tips. If they transpire more water than they are able to take up through the roots, they begin shedding leaves to reduce the "sweating". I'd expect if it was malnourishment, the new foliage would show symptoms of nutrient deficiencies. The photo doesn't seem to, from what I can see. I know the heat was extreme. Perhaps that, combined with the salts from the fertilizers, caused sufficient water stress to trigger defoliation? You do have very sandy soil, so salts and water would flush through. I would just water, including overhead, to rehydrate them until you see new foliage pushing. What that new growth shows should point you toward what they want/need. With your drainage, you really can't hurt them with water. You can with more salts. Kim

With sandy soil, soluble manufactured fertilizer (including granular, which is highly soluble) does need to be applied every 4 weeks.

Alfalfa would supply nitrogen continuously, but to get enough nutrients for a 12-month growing season, you would need maybe 12 cups per year per good-sized plant. How much have you used?

Malcolm Manners uses 3-month Osmocote plus Milorganite. You've probably seen his rose pages at mmavocado.

I don't think lack of nutrients would cause plants to be leafless. They've defoliated from blackspot or heat and maybe aren't growing back as fast as they could.

Some of the leaves look a little discolored, but your rose looks good to me...

I, too, see summer leaf drop late in the season from summer weather, but have never found it to have an adverse effect on the roses.

I can see the healthy white pith where you've trimmed the canes, it looks nice. The rose is well branched and loaded with twiggy growth; looks very graceful, and it appears to be building up a good structure.

Thanks, Krista for an uplifting and positive look at Sherry's roses. Yes, the flowers are really pretty! I don't like the look of the fence. My neighbor put a fence in, and my peach tree went from tons of fruits to half naked with fungal growth.

Sherry's rose bush reminded me of the $2 Bonica rose I bought from HomeDepo in the heat of July. I planted in a crowded, wet area with tons of tall summer phlox around. It was completely leafless within a month. No blackspot, but slugs on the ground.

I went to visit a neighbor's rose garden today. It beats the rose park, super healthy and loaded with blooms. I asked her if she fertilized with chemicals. She said, "No, just 15 bags of $1.25 each compost and manure from Menards." My soil is deficient in nitrogen, so I'll mix this giant bag of alfalfa meal with bagged compost & manure for next spring's top dressing, then mulched with horse manure. Is that an overkill?

I meant it's a nice-looking fence, if it's yours. But if it's your neighbor fence, then I don't like the look of "blocking air flow on your side." Slugs and nematodes can really thrive in the cool shade.

Kim, regarding your post above, I keep my roses well watered during our very hot summers so I don't think mine are lacking water. As I mentioned in my post above, many of my younger roses defoliate during the summer and look exactly like Sherry's. Do you think the defoliation could also be from salts in the water (we have alot in our water system)?

I always assumed the defoliation was from our extreme summer heat. However, if there' something I can do for them besides making sure they're well watered and try to shade my youngsters, I would love to know.

I hate to see my beloved roses looking so pathetic at the end of the summer.

I do notice my mature roses (mostly teas and chinas) don't defoliate completely but many of the leaves get brown. The younger roses defoliate, mostly. Actually, some of my mature roses defoliate; I'm thinking SDLM and Valentine, Green Ice, Mothersday, and some others.

My mature roses that keep their leaves in our hot summers: Maman Cochet, Catherine Mermet (great in my climate), Niles Cochet, Mons Tiller, and others.

What do you have to do to have your soil analyzed? It is pretty easy here, and I would suggest that you find out exactly what you need.

We do not use native soil (hard clay), but rather we put in a huge amount of purchased soil, and we do not have nematodes.

We did have record breaking heat this summer, and as a result my roses are growing now, and really showing their stuff. But as hot as it was here, and as much as our summer and almost all crops were ruined, you are still farther south, and probably hotter.

You have such a beautiful garden that I hope you discover soon what the problem is.

I plant my roses in cages because we have so many underground critters. Yours are not losing roots are they?

Lots of luck.
Sammy

Jasper, it isn't an issue of whether you water or not, but of the plant being able to collect and HOLD enough water to support that foliage mass. If you didn't water, the symptoms would be far worse, probably more like what so many in Texas experienced this summer with their hellacious heat and no rain. Of course the more mature plants are going to hold their foliage better. First, they have the root mass to find and absorb more water. Their wood is harder and thicker, making them more "insulated" against heat, whether prevailing air temps or reflected, radiated or direct heat from surfaces or the sun. Teas and Chinas have longer lived foliage than many other types genetically, as they "evolved" in climates requiring foliage longevity where many others "evolved" in harsher climates requiring more deciduous natures. Younger plants of all types are going to show the symptoms faster and worse than established, mature specimen of the same plants due to less root mass, therefore less ability to forage and collect the resources required; thinner, hence more easily thoroughly heated canes with less sun protection by larger foliage canopies and their cooling effects. Smaller, less mature plants suffer faster and worse than their mature versions.

The salts in the water will have a negative effect on foliage quality and longevity. There is a current post on the forums stating the poster notices a great difference between plant quality with irrigation and that resulting from rain. Ours is also quite "salty" with calcium salts and added "stuff" to make it as alkaline as necessary to prevent more corrosion of the ancient water delivery infrastructure. As the heat increases, I see the browning of the leaf edges and rapid deterioration of the older foliage.

Combine heat and brilliant sun with their resulting increase in transpiration (sweating) with sandy soil and its inability to hold as much water as heavier types; add in higher concentrations of "salts", whether they are from fertilizer, sodium or calcium salts from soil, water, additions by water companies and you have the situation of stressing the plants more than normal. Nature demands balance. The water inside the plant must become the same concentration of salts as that available to its roots. That's how they take in fertilizers. If the water in the soil is higher in nitrogen salts than that inside the plant, the more "distilled" or lower concentration of that salt water is replaced with the higher concentration "salty" water. Your foliage is showing "salt burn" combined with "heat burn" when it turns brown, dry and crisp. If you could replace the salty irrigation water with water not containing those salts, you would see less of the brown, crisp leaves. There would likely still be some due to the higher heat, but not as much from the salt stresses. Types which "evolved" or were selected in saltier soils would express less of the symptoms across the board than those which weren't, and they would express them later under more extreme conditions.

As the stresses increase, the bushes begin shedding more and more of their foliage to reduce the water requirements. At the extreme, they will shed all of their foliage and often flower on the bare canes, as if the "reproduce the species at any cost" directive is activated. Perhaps you've noticed old, ill fruit trees flowering and setting massive quantities of fruit just before they die? It's frequently thought the tree fruited itself to death, when it's actually dying already and making its last ditch effort to "perpetuate the species". It's using up all of its resources in that last effort before it dies. Much like what you see with Grey Pearl, Fantan and some other weak growers with the "Death Gene".

That's the real reason any plant flowers, including roses. Nature programs everything to reproduce itself before dying. Joe Winchell, who bred many roses known to us here, found quite a few wouldn't set seed easily unless he root pruned them, triggering them to go into that mode. If left to their own, they would refuse to set seed. When he cut through much of the root system with a shovel, they set copious seed. Kim

Well, goll-ee everybody. Thanks for the input! Even though August and September were too hot for ME to go out in the garden, I didn't think it was much hotter than usual - 94/95. But now that I think about it we had MUCH less rain - maybe 3" or 4" for the two months which means no cooling in the late afternoon and evening so probably causing more stress on the roses. With all that extra sun and heat perhaps my watering was not sufficient to really cool them and replenish their moisture loss. That does make sense. And I do know that with less rain the soil gets too hot and microbial activity stops so no food gets to the roses. Double whammy. No wonder they go semi-dormant.

Amber, I will investigate the 3-month osmocote. Maybe applied in early July they'll fare better in July, Aug & Sept when I'm hybernating. A friend just told me yesterday that she used it this year. Summer semi-dormancy had not occurred to me until after I wrote this post, but really this was going on in early summer, too. As far as "feeling personally responsible for every little garden problem", that may just be unavoidable given my perfectionist/fix-it personality. I have learned to ignore several garden negatives (kind of like moms letting their later kids play in the street) including the leaflessness all summer. It makes me shudder sometimes but I don't have hissy fits like I used to. However, there comes a time when stuff has to be dealt with.

Greybird, your list of defoliation reasons is sobering. Fortunately, only dehyration fits here. Believe it or not, the roses I have don't have fungal issues - except possibly Lilian Austin and some experimental HPs.

Strawberryhill, bite your tongue about nematodes! Never actually seen the "decline" caused by them, but I've been told that Teas can last as long as 10 years on their own roots. Don't know if that's true though. I had a whole lush cane on Souv de Francois Gaulain go brown recently, and I have no idea why. The rest of the bush is fine, but now there's a big hole in the middle. If it's nematodes, I really will be moving on from roses. Also, the fence is mine. I'm glad you like it. :)) Since that Tea rose does not get bs, I don't think air circulation is the problem that it would be for other roses. The fence is only down the side so air does get through the area.

Pam, I had read that alfalfa lasts for 4 months in Florida, so I hadn't been worried that it would run out before the summer was over. My concern now is that it wasn't a complete enough balanced food, but I don't know that for a fact. Overfeeding also wasn't my worry. This sand is amazing. One day you have soil that will clump together and a few months later you don't. The sand always remains; the organic matter does not. Thanks for feeling my pain. :))

Jasper, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with your heat, but you seem to be managing very well. It's amazed that you've been able to keep your young roses so healthy in those conditions.

Kim, I don't believe salt is an issue here, thankfully, since I have filtered city water, and in our inland location I don't think there's any salt invasion from the ocean. If we were having our normal rains, it would be rehydrating them fine, but as I said, we haven't, so you're probably right about that.

Michael, in the 2 feedings with alfalfa I probably gave each large bush a total of 8 cups of pellets. It was gone from the surface within days both times. You wouldn't have known it was there. Scary.

Krista, that was the loveliest pep-talk I've ever received. You ought to bottle it and get rich. Call it "Looking on the Bright Side". Thank you. You made my day, and La Sylphide appreciates it, too. We both forgot all about how embarrassing that photo was.

Now as an FYI, two of my SdlM's are green, fully leafed and blooming as are several others that got fed four weeks ago. La Sylphide was one of a handful that I didn't get to - about 1/4 of the garden. Interestingly, most of those were able to muster a sprinkling of flowers but not much foliage. But some that did get fed are still quite bare.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sammy, the only difficulty with getting the soil tested is that the extension center is only open from 10 to 4 (closed for lunch, of course) so I'll have to ask DH to take it for me. Giving him directions will be painful for both of us. At least your clay gives your garden a bottom that will hold the new soil. Here we just keep hauling it in. China must have excellent garden soil by now.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, I am sorry to read about the problem with your roses! I know you love them so I can imagine how frustrating that must be for you.

I can't speak for Florida conditions, but would like to share that I also observed that I am not fertilizing my roses enough, when I do it twice a year like recommended by some people. I only use organic fertilizers, a combination of alfalfa and two different organic fertilizers for roses over the course of the growing season. This year I am on my third fertilizing round and I feel that some of my biggest roses (Pierre de Ronsard, Zephirine Drouhin) and some Hybrid Teas (Sweetness in particular) could even use more food. When I was feeding them the second time I noticed that all three I mentioned threw out leaves and began to flower briefly after feeding. Before that they were "just sitting there". My point is that I learned that roses are truly heavy feeders and if you use organic fertilizers only you really have to stay on top of the game.

One other thought: in my yard I have a lot of different type of palms. Trees from neighbors also are encroaching some of the roses root space at the boundaries of the property. It is noticeable that roses growing in those areas need even more fertilizer. Could that be true for your conditions, too?

I agree with others that a soil test should bring objective results and therefore would be the best way to go.

Please, don't even think of abandoning the roses for day lilies, just let them grow in peace together in your garden :-)! I am sure there is a solution for your problem. Good luck finding it! Please keep us updated what you are doing and if it helps.

Christina

Christina, I do have many large oak trees very near the roses (doing very well, I might add), so it makes sense that there is root and food/water competition going on. I hadn't thought of that. Particularly in the back garden. That's where the roses look the worst. You may have hit upon something, Christina!!

I have also thought that climbers (teas, t-n's and noisettes) demand more feeding. Climbing Maman Cochet started lots of new growth and even blooming 3 weeks after the organic feeding, and a week later is really going to town. That's why I put out the milorganite at 4 weeks later to try to keep a steady flow of food. This will be the last feeding through the winter since the freezes will zap all the tender growth that comes. I better go get another bag of milorganite since I ran out before I was quite finished. I'll also be making the earthworms very happy.

Thanks very much, Christina, for your help and insight.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Alfalfa is a complete and balanced fertilizer. As to how long it lasts, the nitrogen has a half-life of around six months, so some of it lasts all year in Florida or two seasons in zone 6. If you apply it every few months, you should have a fairly even supply. Retention of potassium and other metallic nutrients in sandy soil depends on having a lot of organic matter or a little clay in the sand. Potassium is released immediately and can wash out of light soils.

Comments from a fellow Florida OGR grower: some/many of mine defoliate in the brutally hot summer too but just now as the season has changed and dropped the heat/humidity a notch new growth has begun almost overnight.

Comparing notes with your garden vs. mine: I don't irrigate and we don't get much rain here. I will only water if absolutely necessary because I want the roses to send their roots deeply and survive on their own. So we both get defoliation whether watered (you) or unwatered (me).

I use Johnny Becnel's fertilization formula that coolroses.com uses. That formula has many parts including alfalfa and 3 month Dynamite pellets (Osmocote). They feed 4x year but I probably do 3x because of less watering/rain.
So you and I feed but both have defoliation.

My conclusion: it's natural for OGR's to defoliate in the heat of Florida summer as a survival mechanism. Like you I have very sandy soil which doesn't retain much but I keep mulch at a medium level to keep the ground a little lower than scorch temperature.

Denise

P.S. The roses that have defoliated the least (Mrs. BR Cant, Mrs. Dudley Cross and Abraham Darby) have the least sun exposure. Can't call it shade because in summer all parts of my yard are sunny even the north side where they are.

Suzie, thanks for the calm-down, stop-the-berating, get-a-grip, treat-your-man-mean talk. I should have known it was coming, but you always surprise me since I forget to look over my shoulder for you coming at me from across the pond. It helped that NFL-TV has been playing all morning in the background. All that head-slapping and testosterone was good preparation for your finger-in-the-chest post.

OK, I did what you said regarding the water. It's been raining for two days and the forecast is for four more. How much more obedient can I get?

Also, this is Florida not England. We don't have gardens to look at. Only Disney World.

As far as lowering the bar, no way. I want a beautiful, lush, green, blooming garden period. Perhaps I shouldn't expect that in August and September - perhaps, but I'm not going to give up trying. I've only had four summers to get this figured out. Possibly I should be more realistic and not expect to have all the answers in four short years of gardening, but I always say - you don't know what you don't know. By definition that is stupidity. I am figuring out that people don't like to hear someone call herself stupid. I don't know why that is so hard to hear. Sometimes it's true on specific issues. I can't be smart about everything. And, of course, when one is in the throes of some current garden agony, one is liable to say almost anything, and since the buck stops with the gardener, who else is there to blame? And if I can't come here with my tearful blathering, then I'm lost and undone, but, of course, no one said to stop coming here and doing that.

Everyone here gives me such good stuff for moving forward. And Suzie, I especially felt the love in your post between every biting word. :)) Love ya!

Sherry

P.S. It's amazing that such a tender, thin-skinned person as myself could cherish all these tough talking-tos. They're wonderful. Possibly no one else would think they're tough, but I have always found that learning lessons can be a bit painful.

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry- There are lots of public gardens in Florida other than Disney. Why just yesterday I went to my local Florida Bontanical Gardens in Largo. Their roses had chilli thrips :)

Michael, thank you for the facts on alfalfa. I knew there's a ton of good stuff in it, but I didn't know it was 'balanced'. It was UF/IFAS that said alfalfa lasts 4 months in Florida. I knew maintaining potassium levels in Florida sand is an issue. I'm a little vague on where it's coming from. Most of the stuff I feed with has a low number like 2 or 1 for potassium. I'm always nervous that there's enough. I hate to sound like a beginner, but just putting down compost (should I mix kitty litter into the compost?) will be enough to hold onto the potassium while it releases over time?

Denise, that was an excellent summary of our situations, and it showed that rose leaflessness in Florida is a way of life, I guess. I just don't like it. I'm astonished and impressed that you don't irrigate AND you don't get much rain. You're a much less up-tight gardener than I am! I have found that the composted horse manure on top stays amazingly moist even on the surface at the end of a sunny summer day, so it must be helping to keep the soil cooler underneath. I will get some Dynamite.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Amber, it's good to know I'm wrong about the gardens, but I don't get to Largo often (or at all), and I'm a veritable recluse so... How awful that they have chili thrips. Hopefuly, they'll get a handle on that situation.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I have some roses that look like that too. Mine lost their leaves due to disease, but I have one rose that partially defoliates when it gets really hot for extended periods of time. It always looks better when the cooler weather returns. Let us know if these roses start looking healthier as the weather cools down. The canes look very healthy, and I see new growth sprouting from where you pruned. Do they get enough sun there by the fence near the oak tree? If the roses are doing poorly only in certain areas maybe they could be moved?

I wouldn't add kitty litter at the surface, creating a layer, but I can recommend digging 1.5" of fresh kitty litter to a depth of 10-12".

Compost doesn't contain much potassium unless you make it under a cover. All fresh plant material contains K, but as soon as the cells die, the K becomes soluble and washes out in rain. Therefore it's better to spread green yard waste directly on the garden so the K leaches into the garden soil. Or else cover the compost pile or use a machine. Fully decayed plant matter can catch and hold K, so the bottom layer of compost may have some K if you're a lazy composter and don't turn the pile.

All forms of K found in any kind of fertilizer are soluble and can quickly leach out of sandy soil. Coated timed release fertilizers overcome this problem, or frequent light applications of any other fertilizer.

I think when IFAS said alfalfa lasts 4 mos, they meant it should be reapplied at least that often, but that doesn't mean all the nutrients have been released, just that the release of N and P gets slower over time. The K is released immediately.

Golly, it's nice to know smart people! It'll take me some time to digest all that science, but I appreciate it, Michael.

This bush already has more leaves on it, Kristin, with the 2" of rain we've gotten this weekend and the lower temps. It gets pretty much all day sun even with the fence on the west side. It probably wishes the fence weren't there so it didn't need to be pruned on the back.

I went out and bought some Osmocote (not the 14-14-14, the other one 19-something). This will be interesting. I'm about to go out between downpours to finish applying the milorganite. It occurs to me that it's about the only thing that wafts in my garden. Phew! Oh, well...

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, many of my roses look just like yours. I think it's a combination of heat, not as much rain as usual, and me not getting the fertilizer out when I should have. I don't think it's nematodes, because some of my plants on Fortuniana don't look so great either.

Floridarosez, misery loves company, don't we??? Hope you're getting some of this weekend's rain, but it looks like it's missing you. I'm sorry. You need it, too. According to the radar, we're about to get another prolonged shower. Hmmm, what will rain and milorganite bring in the days ahead?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry---if you want to see a miserable looking garden just come see mine-----I can no longer fuss over the plants and some of them look really bad but I still get blooms in the spring and some during the summer so I try to enjoy them and hope for the best--
The folks here have given you some wonderful advice---

Good Luck----

Florence

Well, golly, Sherry, it's been awhile since I've read one of your roses-in-Florida postings here. Whatever the reason you're posting, I'm so happy you're here talking about roses. And being funny; you always brighten my day.

I'm sorry your garden doesn't look the way you want it to right now, but it will be winter soon, then spring and a whole new year of roses to look forward to.

Besides, gardens aren't plastic; reality is always too much of something and not enough of another. Solution wise, all I can think of to add is on the ones out back where there might be root competition, maybe more food and water might help. And compare with how your garden was last fall - is it the same? If worse, well, the roses are bigger, maybe they do need more grub. If it's the same, well, maybe it's just summertime reaction to heat and soil? You'll figure it out, one way or another, and if not this year, then maybe next.

Gean

Sherry, we actually got 7 1/4 inches over three days. It was much needed. Our creek is up roaring and beautifull; the Peace River is in flood stage. The rain is now going north of us. Ever greedy, I was hoping for more.

Hi Sherry, we had a horrible summer here. I think it was 95+ from June first on and NO RAIN. Literally no rain. And I don't have an irrigation system. And my bad ankle prevented me from doing too much.

Luckily it was so hot and dry, I didn't really have to spray all summer for black spot and there was really nothing to do since everything went dormant by July. Many of my roses look just like yours in the picture above. Yellow leaves or no leaves.

Only the past few weeks with cooler weather and some rain, I'm getting some nice roses now. Mostly on my teas. They seem to be able to survive the hot dry weather the best. And I was all set to shovel prune Rosette de Lizzy until I saw this bloom:

{{gwi:314450}}

Oh, Buford! She's gorgeous, and I'm glad she's so resilient. They really are amazing, so I shouldn't fret so much, but it seems like I learned that lesson before once or twice. Hmmm, maybe not.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I think adjusting the way you feed your roses is an easy fix. You may be a good candidate for foliar feeding, even Miracle Gro since your soil will not hold water or amendments long. Either that or raised beds. But that sounds like a lot of work :(

Sherry, I've had about as hot and dry a summer as anybody in Texas, but most of my roses haven't been affected by the heat like your pictures...they are still leafed out, even the many that never got watered. Many roses are pretty xeric plants. I do have a few that have dropped all their leaves, though, lately, which I've ascribed to being blackspot susceptible in those varieties...cause they are. Any chance that it was just a rapid disease problem as the weather cooled and the moisture returned?

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

Sherry, your rose's canes actually look very healthy to me. I'm not sure what's going on, but it does look like they may have gone into a form of survival mode.

It never hurts to have the soil tested.....but sometimes I wonder if OGR roses can have too much fussing over them and not enough enjoying. I don't have many planted yet....about a dozen or so, but mine have been totally neglected and have become huge and full of blooms. I haven't watered them at all this year either. They've had to survive totally on rainfall.

The neglect on my part is because we're finishing up our house and I just don't have the time right now. I remarked to my husband this evening that they must like the cool weather we're having at night. He said they're getting as big as trees.(Hmmm...that would be small trees).

All my roses got from me this year was some sour raw milk, coffee grounds, and yogurt or cream that had gotten past it's prime. This was all stuff from a local dairy and not pasteurized. (I don't drink store milk anymore, only the real stuff). The beneficial microbes and whatever else that was in it made them go gangbusters.

I'm not saying any of this to brag or make you feel bad. The reason I'm telling you all this is because I used to fuss and fret over my roses at our last home, which took all the fun out of it, and they eventually didn't look as good.

Now that my new roses in our new place have had tough love enforced on them, they've had to grow strong roots to find water, and scrounge for whatever nutrients they could then find. I've never had such beautiful roses before. I'm now convinced that an established OGR can survive just fine without supplemental irrigation and excessive amounts of fertilizer, just like Mike Shouppe says. I will say that I feel adding the soured raw dairy must have innoculated the soil around them with microbes that has benefitted them.

My roses did drop leaves in August from the intense heat but they bounced back after a month or so. After that I did a very small amount of grooming to clean up any dead wood in them.

I don't feel you have nematode damage. Your canes are too healthy for that. You would see sections of your bushes dying. Nor do I feel they have any kind of disease at this point. I think I would give them some Black Cow mixed with the Black Velvet mushroom compost, perhaps a very, very small dose of Rose Tone, and maybe a little water followed by a weak solution of something like Miracle Gro or Mills. I wouldn't do any more than that this late in the season. Then relax and tell them you have confidence they'll perk back up.

Sandy

large trees (like I remember seeing on your blog photos) can steal all of the goodness from roses esp. if the soil around the roses is the richest in the yard. In plant ecology, plant roots are said to 'forage' and will proliferate in rich pockets. I don't believe in mixing trees with roses, esp. on poor soil, for this reason.

Love your design ideas Sherry! Still remember one photo, General Gallieni, against a green-tinged fence, amazing.

Nate

Thanks for reviving this thread, Nate. I found it very interesting. I've been thinking a lot about fertilizing recently, too; though my soil here in Italy is heavy clay in many areas of the garden,it is extremely poor. I never knew that K washed out, and was scarce in non-green matter! thought only N was like that. Good to know...

Yes, and the poster strawchicago pointed out the connection between potassium deficiency and rust in the link below. Rust is one of the main diseases in my area. I would have thought it was overfeeding w/ nitrogen that led to rust problems, but maybe it's a more complicated nutrient balance issue where K should be applied in some proportion to applied N. Don't know what that ratio would be?
rust disease and potassium

Just an amateur, but to return to my point about Sherry's garden, tree root competition can be a bugaboo for roses. That may be an issue she's been facing.