Do you see frass, which is caterpillar poo? It is like little black fragments scattered below the damaged areas. That would indicate caterpillar, which would make spraying BT worthwhile.

At this time of the year I get katydid and grasshopper damage on my roses. If you go out early in the morning you can see them and easily cut their heads off with your clippers. When it is cool in the morning they cannot move very much, until the sun warms them up.

Are you encouraging birds to hang out in your yard. A bird bath to attract them? They have been the best "organic" control in my yard. They come to the bird bath, have a drink, and then hunt for breakfast.

Hi Hoov,

I don't think I have seen frass. I haven't seen any evidence of any kind of pest aside from the munched buds. I'll go check again.

I have more birds than can be counted. They are out there under the roses eating all the time. I'll go check for grasshoppers, but haven't seen any so far. I think I mistook praying mantis for grasshoppers and cut two in half, before I realized my mistake. I felt sick. I know they are garden friends. My husband swears they were grasshoppers but I think he was trying to make me feel better.

I'll Google Katydid, I have no idea what they are. I am not up early in the morning so I probably wouldn't ever see morning creatures feasting on my roses. Guess I better set my alarm.

Thanks for always helping me out. What would I do without my California rose experts?
E

Frass! A new word for my vocabulary. Who would have thought?
If you can't get up early, go out before bed time with a flash light. It can be very interesting to see what is out there after dark. I have found huge earwig invasions at times--but never really on roses. I use a headlamp when I am on the attack--praying the neighbors don't see me.
Leaf cutter bees come in fall here, but seem to only eat holes in the leaves. I do see a katydid here and there, but haven't seen any damage. I guess if you had lots of them, it would be noticeable. I see them in day time.
Let us know what you find.
Kathy

Hi again,

I definitely have katydids but only a handful. I think they are what I cut in half, so I am feeling better.

This is weird though. I went out and looked this morning and found yellow jackets all over the roses. Definitely not leafcutter bees. I don't mind holes in the foliage anyway. I wonder if the yellow jackets are eating aphids?

I hunt snails at night, so tonight I'll take a flashlight to the rose garden. I just pray I don't encounter a skunk family.

This is a mystery. Maybe it is time to figure out photo bucket.

Thanks for the help Kathy.
E

One Katydid can cause a lot of damage. :(

Brave Rose, alas, whose are thou? In thy chair
Where thou didst lately so triumph and shine
A worm doth sit, whose many feet and hair
Are the more foul the more thou art divine,
This, this hath done it; this did bite the root
and bottom of the leaves, which, when the wind
Did once percieve, it blew them under foot,
Where rude, unhallow'd steps do crush and grind
Their beauteous glories. Only shreds of thee,
And those all bitten, in thy chair I see.

-- George Herbert

Hello Eileen, I am having the same problem you are. I have a few praying mantis and I know there are grasshoppers around but not that I see near as often as I see the mantis. The buds are sheered in half as something just ate til they were full. There are enough birds as I have little salvia here and there which are covered with little birds all the time. The new leaves are being chewed too. No creatures in sight! Too bad I did not take pics the other day. I deadheaded this afternoon so it will be another day or two before I can get a good picture to post. Should have done this when I thought of it.
Mary

Hoovb,

The poem says it all.

MARY,

We definitely have the same thing going on. I can't remember it being this bad in years past. In fact, I don't really remember having this problem. My leaves are being chewed to bits as well. I am going out with a flashlight in a few hours. I'll let you know what I find.
Eileen

I went out with a flashlight and scoured the roses. I found a few rose slugs. I also found really thin brownish caterpillars boring holes in my opened rose buds. Then I saw the most amazing thing. A huge katydid with its head completely buried in a unopened bud. It was munching away. My husband cut its head off. Good riddance. Hoovb was right. I bet that bug would have worked all night. Mystery solved. Thanks Hoovb.
E

Okay, I just found the culprit. Eileen, now you know what to look for.
There is "frass", aphids, mildew and ants. (Yes, I'm no spray.) I will make a batch of BT this afternoon if I get confirmation that this creature is in fact a caterpillar.
Thanks.
Mary
The damage:
{{gwi:323549}}
{{gwi:323550}}
{{gwi:323552}}

The creature (reminds me of the "Tingler"
{{gwi:323554}}
{{gwi:323556}}
{{gwi:323557}}

Mary,

That is exactly what I was squashing last night. My roses look just like yours. I wish I had sprayed a month ago. This flush is really damaged. I'll be on top of it next year! Thanks for posting the pictures.
Eileen

Where is z11? I'm in Laguna Hills.

Hi Mary,

I keep laughing at my zone 11 listing. I have tried to change it, but the system won't let me alter my profile. I am in Santa Barbara, and somewhere I read that we were zone 11. I have no idea where I got that information, because zone 11 is listed as Florida and Hawaii. I do however live in a micro-climate that never freezes, but I don't think that counts as weather like Hawaii. I know the Southern California people must think I am a garden newbie. Long answer to a short question.

Did you spray?
E

Eileen, I did spray but I plan to do it again this evening, just to be safe. I keep looking and see so much damage. I also see grasshoppers. I need to have some decent roses as there is a family wedding end of this month and though no one is counting on anything, I'd like to bring roses to the reception.
Ahh, Santa Barbara - what a place! My daughter lives up there and I love to go visit her and sample all the great things to do - orchid nurseries, good food, shopping, festivals, beachcombing etc.
Nice place for growing roses too!
To change your zone, go to Garden Web home page and look at top of page for your profile. That's where you can change your zone.
Mary

I'm in Santa Barbara, and have noticed a crop of baby to adolescent grasshoppers when I'm out in the yard deadheading in the past few weeks. I actually had one right between the blades of my Felcos last weekend, but couldn't pull the trigger. I'm a wimp. When I see damage to blooms, I can screw up the courage to slice them in half, but I've seen no damage yet, so I'm not mad enough at this point :-D

Having said that, I've definitely seen the caterpillar in the previous pictures in the past regularly . I pick and squish them with no problem. I seem to have issues with killing the grasshoppers, perhaps b/c they have faces. I know they do a lot of damage, but it's hard for me to kill them when they're just happily going about their lives.

I'm not keen on spraying for insects. I spray insecticides maybe twice a year to combat rose slugs. Please be sure that whenever you spray insecticides that you do it right before dusk, after the bees have gone to bed. Protecting our vanishing bees is job one for gardeners... or at least it should be.

Susan

Susan, I agree. I just used BT - not a pesticide. I hope it works.
I don't spray poisons period. It would possibly kill or make sick my small number of praying mantis. I count on them and lady bugs to help me out.
Mary

Hello everyone,

Please forgive for the incompetent question, but what is BT and how is it mixed? I am a newbie, and I spray with what they gave me at the nursery, which is chemical and very potent. They also said that natural sprays do not work. I understand that they have interest in selling their stuff. Is there an efficient alternative? Thank you.

Lyuba

BT is bacillus thurigiensis.

It IS a pesticide, albeit a very specific one, and organic.

BT kills ALL caterpillars, including those which morph into butterflies,
so you don't want to use it unless you have a specific target pest
as Tinyrose does.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on BT

Jeri,
So true. I prefer to hand pick the big ones and let the BT work on the smaller ones that are not seen as easily. I noticed an entirely different worm this morning all curled up inside an eaten bud. I'm declaring war this afternoon!
Mary

He ate so much, he fell asleep at the scene of the crime?
:-)

I really, truly cannot STAND caterpillars, to be honest. Creepy and squishy,
no matter WHAT they're going to grow up to be.

Jeri

I now am recalling that earlier this summer I saw tracks of what looked like could be from leaf miner that is found on citrus. ON MY ROSES. Just a little bit of trails but now I am looking at "Spinosad" which at their website says is better than BT and that it works on thrips too. Has anyone use this stuff on the roses?
Thanks,
Mary

Hi Mary, Jeri, and Susan,

Mary, I hope you win the war. I had my gardeners spray BT very early on a foggy morning. I have also been going out at night with a flashlight and squishing them. It is a tedious task and I am pretty sure my neighbors think I am a lunatic. My damage is horrible, I sincerely hope you have flowers for the wedding.

Susan,
you don't have to worry. The bees are some of my best friends! I completely stopped spraying because of them, and all the other toxic reasons. I have never noticed grasshoppers until this year. I found out from Hoovb that they are Katydids. Although mine don't say "Katy did". Mine are kind of purring in a cricket sounding way. I cut one in half while it was singing and it stuck with me for two days. That beautiful song and then silence. Damned if you do Damned if you don't.

I am up on Campanil Hill, I wonder if we have the same thing? Mine are big and green. I have noticed some smaller ones. I caught one gobbling a rose bud. It was stuffing itself with Yves Piaget. My husband took care of that one.

Hi Jeri!

Eileen

Hey Eileen!

Say, I wish y'all had heard the talk Jim Delahanty gave last Thursday, at
Santa Barbara Rose Society.
It was on Polyanthas, and I think sent many people home inspired to try some!

Jeri

I've become a wimp too. Once, I tried to cut a huge grasshopper in half with my pruners. As I closed the blades, the thing jumped (flew?)about six feet in the air! I screamed loudly and ran away, hoping that it wouldn't land on my head and get caught in my hair. (This was in my frontyard, BTW.) When I looked back, I saw it sitting two roses over, no worse for wear.

Another time, I peeled one of those brown caterpillars off a potted rose (while wearing gloves, of course) and dropped onto my patio. As it writhed on the ground, I took my shovel and ran it over the caterpillar to kill it. The thing sprayed juicy bug guts about 2 feet away!

Now I'm totally grossed out by the whole bug removal thing. For leafhoppers, I let my husband take care of them or I just let them feast. For caterpillars, I throw them on the ground and hope they don't crawl back up. Ewww.

I went out looking for caterpillars this afternoon and found nothing but damage and disease. I took apart the eaten buds and found no more worms. Looks like I do have mites, aphids, katydids and no praying mantis anywhere. I definitely hate looking quite so closely to the reality of my no-spray garden. I have plenty of other roses in my veggie garden so I will pamper those.
I always come across those brown grasshoppers in winter when it's pruning time. They hardly ever move when I'm chopping away and they don't bother me too much. But I sort of flinch when they dart from one place to another. Yuck!!!!