To me the first leaf looks more like an injury symptom than a disease symptom (that is, an expression of a physiological problem or an herbicide injury, rather than an expression of a pathogen).

As to the second, I'll be interested to see what others think because I've had leaves like that, too. I don't know for certain what causes that. I've always assumed it was an expression of black spot, but that's only an assumption.

I too would like to know what the second pic is. I have had this of and on with different HTs and GF and FBs. Pillow Fight has it now.
Allison

I'm not sure about the first, but a few of my more recently planted HTs have that. I've fertilized with something gentle like fish emulsion infused w/ chelated iron, sprayed with fungicide, removed the unattractive leaves, maintained a good soil moisture and hoped for the best...

I really think it's a cultural problem.

First one looks like spray burn to me.

Second -- I'd like to know if Malcolm Manners has seen this pattern as a mark of one form or another of virus.
That would be my guess, but I don't KNOW.

Jeri

Yorkrose, I have thought the same thing regarding blackspot. I have NEVER had the blackspot that you see in pictures. But I have had this (second Pic) problem over the years. It isn't devastating but I always remove the leaves which is teteus The only time I have seen the "regular" blackspot is on newly online purchased roses. I removed the leaves and sprayed. Hopefully I won't see it again. Pleeeease..

Allison

I have had the symptoms of the second, and I think it is lack of water. It seems that it has happened when I have watered, but for some reason a rose did not take in the water. Either the sprinkler didn't really reach the rose or the rose was planted in a heavier clay than the others and the water did not penetrate it.

Sometimes I also think the second one happens when someone else waters, and they just dampen the surface, not really water the rose -- someone else like husband!! ha ha

Sammy

The first is some kind of burn. Spray burn, heat burn, fertilizer burn, something burning. Not a disease.

The second - first I would check the undersides of the leaves for spider mites. If no mites, then I would assume it's some kind of virus. There's more than one virus that hits roses, and they dont' all show the classic rose mosaic pattern. Could also be a cultural problem, sometimes leaves go through a phase like that when they're about to drop off in fall. A bit early for fall leaf drop unless plants have been stressed by unusual heat and/or drought. Just the right time of year for mites.

The second one is just an old dying leaf. Chances are it's from the bottom or interior of the plant; otherwise there may have been some injury to the leaf stem. I pulled off some of those this morning just because I don't like looking at them. Everyone probably has leaves like this every year. Experienced growers don't notice them because they know the death of an old interior leaf is not a problem. Some varieties and classes of rose produce more of these mottled, dying leaves than others. I don't recall seeing them on hybrid teas much if any.

If the first one is just one leaf, I wouldn't worry about it. Various accidents can befall individual leaves, including malfunction of interior systems. If more like that develop, take a sample to the ag extension office. The fact that the midrib stays green indicates that it is not a disease, possibly a severe deficiency symptom, or burn from the excess of something, such as ammonium nitrogen. Again, this might result from a malfunction of that particular leaf.

allison64, you aren't likely to ever have a persistent black spot problem. Your climate is too dry for the fungus to prosper. I contend with black spot, but I've never had a problem with rose rust. My understanding is that the rose rusts (there's more than one species) don't grow well in warm humid air, while black spot craves it. The states that have warm, sticky summers (where most every day is muggy and the daily high temps. are in the upper 80's and low 90's), such as the Mid-Atlantic region, are ground zero for black spot.

ramblinrosez7b, I am glad you took such clear pics. I am unable to so, this really helps.

michaelg, your descriptions are so thorough. I don't even have a question! Very interesting information. Thank you.

york rose, thank you for putting me at ease. I was concerned about diseases coming in on purchases from far away and not leaving.

Allison

Thanks so much all, I believe the first one is from chemical burn also and the second one....well I just don't know, I have several roses with this, a few in pots and a few in the ground. and they are not close to one another, it cannot be from spray because not all of these get sprayed. It very well could be old leaves like michaelg stated, I sure hope it is.