I guess the lowest count would be the singles, 5 to 8 petals. Sounds like very little but they can be dramatically beautiful. Look at Dainty Bess or Golden Wings but there are many others. The highest probably would be some of the fuller OGRs and the Austin's, which can run over a hundred petals. 25 is a pretty low petal count. I think most of the good exhibition HTs run a petal count in the 30s somewhere. The other thing to consider with balling problems is the petal substance. Thinner petals tend to ball more easily than thick petals. That's why a lot of white or very pale roses tend to ball, because their petals tend to be thinner. Darker colored roses usually have thicker, firmer petals and open more readily. That's not a hard and fast rule just a tendency. And the number of petals isn't always an indication of whether or not a rose will ball. Some OGRs with many petals have no problem with balling. Probably the best thing would be to look around or talk to people in your area and see what roses tend to open best and go from there.

The minimum number of petals is 5. (Actually, there is a freak variety, the Green Rose, that has no petals.

However, some roses with many petals are resistant to balling. If you have a shopping list, you can ask about varieties here. Balling is mainly caused by the botrytis fungus, which germinates in cool, damp weather. It also causes damp brown rotten spots and, on some varieties, pink/red spots.

'Souvenir de St. Annes' has only 6-10 petals and always opens, but often gets brown spots in my climate. But 'Quietness' with 40-50 petals is rarely bothered. These are both blush pink, a color class with many susceptible members. Most yellow roses are resistant, for some reason.

I would think if balling is an issue where you are, you'd want to keep the petal count under 25. The lower the count, the greater the possibility of it opening in cool, damp weather. Higher counts need more heat and dry to open properly. Many have their petal counts listed in the descriptions on Help Me Find-Roses and many nursery sites list the counts on their descriptions.

If you have decent bloom photos available, such as on HMF, remember each row of petals is usually five. A three row of petals flower should average about fifteen petals. Twenty-five petals would be about five rows. That should help you look at the photos and get a feel for what might work well where you are. Kim

That explains a lot, I had botrytis for years but did not know it. Even this yellow rose was balling up on me. I did not take many photos when it looked bad, but found this one in my files. As you can see even the yellow rose balled up on me in san francisco. I could have taken even worse photos of the balling, but I normally don't take photos when they look bad.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yellow rose trying to ball

I have to second Michael's suggestion of Quietness. It's lovely, has many petals and always opens. Smells nice too!

tropical--lightly slide your thumbs down opposite sides of the rose bloom (in several different places). That will "open" the rose for you and the bloom will almost look normal.

Of course, if you have lots of roses that ball, that could be quite a task, but in my garden only a few roses tend to ball and even then, only sometimes, depending on the weather. As I do my daily inspection tour, I often help a bloom here and there open up.

But single roses or semi-doubles are often quite lovely. That would be a good way to go also.

Kate

Among the worst ballers in my experience are Belinda's Dream and Souvenir de la Malmaison. Some more roses with 30-50 petals that usually open well in cool damp weather are Tess of the d'Urbervilles, Prospero, Heritage, Kronprinzessin Viktoria, Savoy Hotel, Valencia, Sunset Celebration. There are many others.

Abe Darby balls terribly for me in rainy weather.....

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, including what heavily petaled rose will open in cool, damp to wet conditions. In general, though, maintaining the count in your garden to 25 or less, will help you have open blooms much of the time. If there are public gardens near you where a larger number of varieties are grown, it would be an excellent place to start your study of what may or may not open for you.

Read information from Britain to get other ideas. Anywhere cool, damp is the norm should have more information. Heavier petal substance is something you want to look for when selecting higher petaled varieties as that waxy petal surface helps prevent balling (petals sealing together and rotting). It also increases vase life, makes them more durable when handling the blooms and significantly reduces fragrance as was discussed in an earlier thread on this forum about the most fragrant OGRs. Scroll down to the posts made late last month to early this one and you'll find more explanation about this. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Most Fragrant OGRs

Dainty Bess is a pretty low petal count. Stay away from the Pom POm Flower circus line. Worst ballers all the time.

If you live in San Francisco I would contact the San Francisco Rose Society - they have been there for 70 years, and I am sure you can find some ideas about roses that won't ball in the fog!

Jackie

I've found that Peace, with a petal count of 43, to be extremely resistant to balling. Blooms routinely open in all sorts of weather. We do have a very large, vigorous plant.

Great thread.

As a 40 yr SFer, I have battled the 'best roses for colder climate' game for some time. I always thought the balling problem was from lighter colored roses, not from petal density but it makes sense I guess. What I see are roses whose petals are practically GLUED together once the nuclear winter of San Francisco (west side to boot) summer strikes.

And not to throw a damper on the whole idea of petal count but in the old days of Sloat Garden Ctr when roses came in boxes, they always listed petal counts. I tended to favor the 20-30 counts but the downside is even if they open, they last only days before the wind and fog blow them apart. So it's like you can't win - get a 50 count rose and it won't open in July and August but looks great in May and Sept. or get a 22 count and watch it bloom and be gone within 2 days.

Sloat has now cut back severely on their rose inventory but I noticed that they are now stocking more that say 'good in cold weather' and it is because of the fog presence (they told me). So far, I have had great luck with them even if they are 35-40 count roses.