Thanks, Henry, but it would be well to advise others that growing roses in the UK is entirely different then growing roses in the US. For example, over there they can grow them in clumps, close together without fear of some of the disease problems we would encounter doing that here. Maritime climates are different then say the middle of Iowa here.

When several of my roses (but NOT my two Double Knock Outs) came down with RRD, I waited until the following early spring to replant in the same spots, but only because I was ordering bareroots which are sent in late March/early April. Whether that 6-9 month wait was needed, I have no idea. The several cases of RRD did NOT spread to any adjacent roses. In fact, each case happened in a different year and to a rose nearly on the opposite side of the garden. I think we still do not know enough about this disease to make very many safe generalizations about it. Kate

Buford stated: "RRD does cause excessive red growth that last longer than normal along with soft thorny canes." H.Kuska comment: I suggest that the above be modified to: "RRD may cause excessive red growth that last longer than normal along with soft thorny canes." The reason for the modification is that both Ann Peck and others show RRD infected roses without the red color. In the Pathologist's article linked to here see the growth on the left side of the picture labeled: Leaf and flower deformation (L); Red coloration, shoot elongation and hyperthorniness (R). (note there are 2 sick branches or roses, the (L) stands for the symptoms of the branch or rose on the left, the (R) stands for the branch or rose on the right Now, with that modification there is still a problem with the "last longer than normal" part of the statement as the point is to remove the cane with symptoms or bush early before the "possibility infected" bush becomes a source of further infection in one's rose garden. --------------------------------------------- Regarding "Hyper thorniness" Ann Peck's book states: "Hyper thorniness is not a dependable indication of RRD, it does alert rosarians to be vigilant. It appears on some HTs, but sick OGRs and roses related to 'R. multiflora' may have thorns no denser than ususal. Further confusing diagnoses, many classes of old garden roses are extremely thorny and no one could look at a sick rugosa, damask, or spinossissima and declare it�s hyper thorniness to be aberrant. Likewise basal breaks on some healthy HTs appear thornier closer to the bud union, but become less thorny with increasing healthy growth. This year, I have also seen a characteristic of some roses from cold hardy breeding programs to have denser thorns near the base; these roses have a built in rodent deterrent that I had not noticed until a question from New Brunswick about the possibility of RRD in that part of Canada."

What a beautiful setting, though. It looks so inviting and peaceful. love the terraced stone walls. Have you tried smothering the plants? We have what is referred to in Massachusetts as "picker bushes", brambles or briers to the rest, and I cut them to the ground on our hillside and them covered them with cardboard, black tarps, or anything else that wouldn't let light through and weighed it down with rocks. It took a while to kill them but they didn't come back. I think that you could smother the ivy and pachysandra this way and the multiflora rose if you cut it down first. Quite a chore but unless you use some kind of chemical to kill it this is probably the only way to rid this chemical free. If the leaves are deprived of sunlight the plant can't perform photosynthesis and the plant will eventually die. You can kill any unwanted lawn using the same technique. It just takes a while. Another option to kill lawn under new flower beds is tio cover it with a thick layer of newspapers then put your soil and mulch right on top, cutting through the newspaper for your planting holes. Or plant first and then fit damp newspaper around the plants like a jigsaw puzzle, tearing where necessary and then covering with a top layer of soil and mulch. This also helps to keep the weeds under control. Straight bleach works extremely well as a weed killer but I don't know of the toxicity or lasting effects on the environment and couldn't find any info via google search. It usually requires only one application though. It kills poison ivy, "picker bushes", wild plantain, burdock and other plants effectively. If you spray it at high sun on dry foliage it works best. Sharon