AMBRIDGE ROSE. I literally cannot say enough good things about this rose. I posted a pic of one of the blooms my baby plant put out over in a topic in the Antique Roses Forum. I believe it was asking about roses for a Mediterranean climate.

As long as Marquis de Sade thorns and the potential for rust aren't issues, Tamora. Out of the earlier offerings, it, and Perdita, grew most like floribundas in most California climates. The only two things I dislike about Tamora are the "whip me, beat me" THORNS and the proclivity to rust. Otherwise, she is splendid in my book. As a plant, I like Perdita better. She is like the Austin version of Iceberg, which is fitting with Iceberg in her lineage. But, the scent isn't there as it is with Tamora. I'm unfamiliar with his newer roses, by choice. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Tamora

OK, Kim you are once again talking over my head. I thought that I had told you which rose I was considering. I guess I wasn't clear. But nevertheless, I don't know what Tamora is.

Ok, I will start over. I am thinking of Carding Mill. What do you think.....Please be careful. I will take your word as gospel.

andrea

I'm sorry Andrea, I misunderstood what you were thinking. I only had what you had asked to guide me. You stated you were considering Carding Mill, then gave a laundry list of requirements you sought and asked "Do you all have any other suggestions?"

I wasn't going to contribute to the thread, but you specifically asked me to. As I stated, I have chosen not to pay attention to Austin roses for quite a few years. IN MY CONDITIONS, many have proven unsuitable by virtue of their growth habits, size, lack of disease resistance and significantly greater demand for water, which is increasingly expensive. That is not to say they perform this way for others in DIFFERENT conditions. They DO in MINE.

I have grown my share of his roses and often paid the premiums demanded for them only to discover their unsuitabilities for myself. I choose not to be the guinea pig, particularly at the prices required.

Tamora is an early Austin introduction. When Austin Roses played their game a few years ago of requiring anyone wishing a license to sell their new roses, NOT sell any unpatented varieties which Hortico had already sold in the US, making it impossible for Austin Roses to patent them, Tamora was entrenched as one of the best of his roses to that date for many of our climates. You can find all of the roses they required not be sold in order to obtain their license by looking at the lists where they are only referred to by their Breeder's Code Names. Vintage listed a number of them by AUS names. Those roses had been sold in the US market, mainly by Hortico selling to US customers, prior to being patented, so Austin Roses trademarked their names and required you buy a license from them to sell those specific roses by their trade names. If you paid for the license, you could sell the rose as Tamora. If you didn't, you had to sell it as AUStamora. Heritage without paying for the license to use the name, had to be sold as AUSblush. At that time, Tamora was superior here to all of the new (for the time) similar Austin introductions.

I have limited space and I measure the water and other resources I use for gardening to keep them within budget. I grow roses I wish to use in my own breeding efforts. That requires knowing what created them. Austin Roses has, for many years, kept the majority of that information secret. That makes a huge difference when you are selecting plants with good genes to use in creating the kinds of roses you wish to raise.

Health is one of my prime criteria in creating my seedlings. It was quite low on the Austin Roses criteria list as stated by Michael Marriott, Austin's Technical Manager, in his acceptance speech at the 2010 Great Rosarians of the World at The Huntington Library when he accepted the award for Mr. Austin. Mr. Marriott stated at the Austin Nursery, "the look, fragrance, beautiful flower were all the most important factors." He stated, "of course, the rose has to have acceptable health, but that is not one of our main criteria in selecting seedlings." "Acceptable health".

For the reasons listed, I have avoided English roses for some years, so I am not familiar with Carding Mill. Kim

Kim,

I thank you so very much for taking the time to answer what has to be, for you, a silly and uneducated question. Since you did take that time to do so, could I bother you just a little further? If you could think of a rose that you consider to be a good rose with some similar attributes, could you let me know?

I have so little experience, but I already understand that taking care of roses, if done properly, is very time consuming. I certainly don't want to put in a great effort when the outcome is any more uncertain than it already is.

With much respectful appreciation,

andrea

They're not silly questions, Andrea. Of course they could be "uneducated", you don't know...yet. We all ask uneducated questions all the time. That's one of the prime values of these forums - to provide the education so we can ask OTHER uneducated questions!

If selected and planted properly so they are cooperative and HAPPY where you are, caring for roses is anything but time consuming. When you have the wrong plant, in the wrong place, planted incorrectly, that's what sucks up exorbitant amounts of time. Many of us spend far more time playing with our roses than they actually require. You will be amazed just how durable and persistent many roses are without your "help".

Nothing fitting your desires comes to mind right now, but it's late and I've been working on something I have to present in the morning. Please let me cogitate on it after the services tomorrow and see what I can come up with. And, you are NOT a "bother". If you were, we wouldn't be chatting! Thanks. Kim

Carding mill is a very pretty rose, but the smell deterred me when I looked at it in person. I'm not at all a fan of myrrh. Ambridge Rose looks very similar and smells much better...but Mr. Kim is correct at least from what I've read. I don't personally have a Tamora, but people rave about her.

A number of forum posters have praised Carding Mill highly, so it quite possibly is a good choice. I have never seen one nor researched it, so I can't say, but one rose I have researched and love and wish I had room for is Austin's Princess Alexandra of Kent. Big full rich pink blooms on a shrub about 3 ft tall and 2.5 ft wide, fragrant, and disease-resistant. What is not to love?

Between Carding Mill and Princess Alexandra, I'd say the main choice is color--which color you personally prefer.

Of course, if you want a really different color, go with Austin's Munstead Wood. I do have this one, and I'm crazy about it. It is about the same size as the above ones, fragrant--and the color is out of this world! The photos don't really capture its vibrant colors, but here is a link you can use to the image at helpmefind.com: Munstead Wood, at HMF.

Now that I think of it, I believe you need all three, andrea. They are all wonderful roses. Why should you have to choose between them? : )

Let us know what you decide, and treat us to a pic when it blooms.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Princess Alexandra of Kent, at HMF

I've had Carding Mill for 2 yrs. I like it a lot. Beautiful blooms on a bushy bush covered in dark green foliage from top to bottom. Get this rose "own root" if you can. This rose will be in my garden for many, many years.

I adore apricot roses and got an own root Carding Mill from Roses Unlimited last year. I potted it up,kept it disbudded and planted it in the garden earlier this summer. It is growing well and the few blooms I have let it have are just lovely. That being said, I ordered several of David Austin's roses [Wollerton Old Hall, Fighting Temeraire, Darcey Bussell, Ambridge Rose, Charles Rennie Macintosh, Munstead Wood, Englands Rose] as bare roots. They are all doing really well. Next fall I plan to order another Carding Mill and get it from DA. I am interested in seeing how the grafted versus own root grows. I saw some mature Carding Mills growing in Tyler, Tx at a home on the garden tour for the last two years and they are totally gorgeous! I would say you cant go wrong with Carding Mill. I have a Tamora and like Kim said, it is thorny. Seems my Carding Mill blooms are larger than Tamora's. I adore Ambridge Rose, it blooms alot, very healthy but not the rich color of apricot I love.

Another apricot I love is Fragrant Apricot - own root from Roses Unlimited. Beautiful apricot color, its a floribunda so it will bloom alot.

The Forum is so lucky to have Kim responding to so many posts. Such knowledge! I always pay close attention to anything he writes. Thank you Kim for your generous sharing of your experience and knowledge!!
Judith

I quit growing Austins years ago due to their issues in my climate. However, I visited the Biltmore over the 4th of July holiday. There had been torrential storms and flooding the night before, and almost all of the roses in their rose garden looked a mess...except for Carding Mill, Molineux, Litchfield Angel and Golden Celebration (all Austins), the HT Francis Meilland and several of their test roses that were only identified by numbers. Carding Mill was my favorite and now has me considering trying some Austins again. Blooms were beautiful and plentiful, color was gorgeous, fragrance was nice and the bushes looked full and healthy. I have no first hand knowledge growing any of the newer Austins, but Carding Mill was very impressive looking there.

They're not silly questions, Andrea. Of course they could be "uneducated", you don't know...yet. We all ask uneducated questions all the time. That's one of the prime values of these forums - to provide the education so we can ask OTHER uneducated questions!

If selected and planted properly so they are cooperative and HAPPY where you are, caring for roses is anything but time consuming. When you have the wrong plant, in the wrong place, planted incorrectly, that's what sucks up exorbitant amounts of time. Many of us spend far more time playing with our roses than they actually require. You will be amazed just how durable and persistent many roses are without your "help".

Nothing fitting your desires comes to mind right now, but it's late and I've been working on something I have to present in the morning. Please let me cogitate on it after the services tomorrow and see what I can come up with. And, you are NOT a "bother". If you were, we wouldn't be chatting! Thanks. Kim

I grew Carding Mill in my hot and dry garden for some time and for my climate it was a stellar rose, performing beautifully in the heat and almost never without blooms. At the time I realized I really didn't care much for apricot roses but in hindsight I wish I'd kept this one, because it is beautiful and very tolerant of dry heat, which I have plenty of. I've "enabled" a number of people on the antique forum to try this rose and they seem to universally like it very much. I don't think the scent was one of its notable features for me, but it had so many other good qualities that I didn't really care. I would say by all means try it, and I think you'll be pleased. It's a very tough rose and for me was completely free of disease.

Ingrid

I had a Carding Mill lined up, BUTTTT, that fizzled. So I guess this is a moot post.

Ingrid, thanks for your input.

Kim, Although it breaks my heart, it looks as though a new rose this year is out of the question. I even had the perfect flower pot picked out. (Sometimes I think I'm still part child. Just too anxious and not much patience.) Well, at least now I have a lot of time to cogitate (stolen from kim) on the perfect rose for the area. I hope your meeting went well.One more thing, You said that if handled correctly, roses should NOT take a lot of time.I think you may remember, I have only 2 small beds and a total of 13 plants. But somehow, I spend at least an hour every day (at least!) on my beauties, deadheading, removing yellow leaves, pulling any weed that may have decided to rest there, watering, (I have valves for sprinklers or drippers but I like watering by hand) fertilizing, and talking to them......... I probably just like being in their presence.

Thanks again. And if you think of a great apricot or peachy, fragrant, repeat bloomer, vigorous, disease free, bushy plant with lovely foliage, please let me know.

I'm going home play with my babies now.

Hugs and Smooches to all,

andrea

Andrea,

Again, I would suggest Ambridge Rose. Mine are out in full sun on the porch, with little coddling or TLC. They bloom large, peachy blooms that retain their English Rose look until they blow. The scent is especially nice, and they have incredible disease resistance even here in my high disease pressure area.

Josh

Ambridge Rose is indeed lovely but in the interest of full disclosure I thought I should mention that in my warm, dry climate it rusted like an old bucket. Worst case of rust I've ever seen. I'm not certain but I think Jeri might have had a similar experience. And yet, many others have had no problems with this rose. Location, location.

Ingrid

Andrea, have you tried Heirloom Roses? They seem to have Carding Mill available.

Ingrid

Location, absolutely, but WATER can also be the culprit. If you have one which rusts like an old nail, bump up the water to it and see how it responds. It would surprise you greatly to see how many roses rust and mildew, perhaps even black spot because they are sufficiently water stressed. Not that you aren't watering. It's just not enough. I honestly didn't believe it until I did it and could repeat the issues simply by turning the water up, or down. Kim

Andrea, I understand this may not be a possibility for you this year but I did want to let you know how this rose has been for me.
It is a peachy rose, but it also looks pink at certain times. Here's a picture of mine today. It is a two year old plant, almost reaching four feet tall, in the ground. It does get some black spot, but I live in an area, sadly, that even the most disease resistent rose gets black spot in my yard. Overall it is a very good repeat bloomer.

Here's the bloom up close so you can see how the color isn't quite as peachy for me as it is advertised.

I thank you all so much....Since my mouse died (and was replaced) on Friday, I have gotten confirmation of my order for a Carding Mill from the David Austin location in Texas. My Carding Mill container rose will be delivered on 8/6/13. I am very excited and I have purchased the most beautiful pot for it.

Some of you have liked it , some have liked something else better. I have a great location for it, so please cross your fingers for me.

Kim, I will post photos of it's progress. I know you are less than enthusiastic, but I would like your good wishes for it. (The shipping cost more than the rose!) And as you already know, I thank you so much for your expertise and help.

Your friend, I hope,
andrea

Of course, Andrea! Best wishes with your new plant! Ouch! That shipping can REALLY add up, can't it? I bought a two gallon, potted Rosarium Uetersen from Arena years ago. That $20 rose cost $45 including shipping from Paso Robles to Valencia, just a few hour drive! You will probably be thrilled with it, I hope! For that price, it had BETTER please you! BTW, what area of California do you live in? (So I can keep it straight and adjust suggestions to be more climate specific.)

Yup, you probably do spend far more time on and with your roses than they require, but that's the FUN of it. At one time, I was constantly out among them until it began feeling like an obligation that was becoming a burden. It took me a while to adjust my feelings so I can spend time playing with them when I want to, and just enough time to keep them self sufficient when I don't. It's a nice balance. Good luck! Kim

mzstitch,

Thanks for the lovely photos. One of the many, many things I have learned about roses is that even in my yard, the color is always different. I will be very happy with a nicely repeating rose.

Kim,

Thanks for your support. I am off to Regans (3 to 4 hour round trip) to pick up 3 miniatures. I wanted to balance the Carding Mill (in a very large pot) with another rose on the other side of the deck, but that side is full sun 8 hours a day..... That is to say HOT and Blazing in July. So instead of one regular size bush, I am going to put 3 miniatures into pots. That way, when the heat and sun are excessive, I will be able to move them without a crane.

I think you asked where I live. Don't remember if I answered. I live in the east side of the San Francisco East Bay by the delta, mid way from SFO and Sacramento.

Well, I'm off to see the Wizard.

Thanks again and hugs to all,

andrea

Thank you Andrea. Particularly for smaller pots, keep them insulated types and not clay or ceramic. The smaller the pot, the faster it over heats when it's hot and the sun shines directly on them. The larger the pot, the longer it takes to cook the soil ball. Think of pots of water on the range. Smaller ones boil faster than larger ones. It is very much the same thing and why minis in smaller pots are very often unsuccessful out in the sun. They literally cook to death.

Have fun following the Yellow Brick Road! Kim

How thorny is Carding Mill??

Not very, that I have noticed. Of course I have Pristine,
Oregold, and some other HTs that look as though they
are armed liked gladiators....Nothing next to them looks thorny. I never wear gloves, so I think I would have noticed.

andrea

I wish descriptions of roses rated their thorniness, but that might be bad for business.

Does Carding Mill have an abundance of swords or is it one of the more polite roses ?

I cleared the garden of clothes tearing, flesh ripping roses, but now I'm so tempted again by gorgeous blooms.

Described as almost thornless, Duchess Rohan arrived covered with sharp little teeth that were just too naughty to keep her. In my estimation "prickles " in a underhanded way are just as evil, maybe more.

Wollerton Old Hall and Lichfield Angel are the only two Austin's I've read are supposed to be nice.

I'll allow myself just a few dangerous loves and keep my distance. Carding Mill looks worth the risk.

The wily Duchess Rohan

The Duchess is gorgeous, Berrypie. I'm glad you're keeping her. I don't mind thorns because they're just part of being a rose. You should see my gardening-pruning coat, covered in big rips. I would like to mention Brother Cadfael, which is definitely low thorn and a nice guy. Plus the canes, except for the old ones, are a beautiful wine color. Diane

Actually Diane, I took the Duchess out; the banished roses go to good homes with more garden space. It's true she was beautiful, but a thug of a rose.

Autumn Damask was thee worst, but what a euphoric perfume !

Our rescue dog we got last July has to stop and sniff EVERY flower. My concern is she will need regular vet trips to get thorns out of her nose and feet if I'm not careful, so I'm trying to order with her safety in mind, and mine too this year. My little finger burned like fire for a month after getting pierced by a small Abe Darby thorn that was in the dirt debris underneath. My Dr said it was nothing to worry about, but the joint still flares up years later.

Thank you for reminding me of Bro Cadfael, I read he has a great scent.

I hope at some point I can get more neighbors interested to create a rose walk down our culdesac, they spend a fortune on annuals . I can't fit all the great roses into my micro flower bed, especially the thorny ones. A close neighbor took my Autumn Damask and Madame Hardy- Madame hardly approachable.

Berrypie - I agree with you...I'd rather have thorns than prickles. :) That is a STUNNING rose!!! Oh SWOON!!! I bet it has a wonderful fragrance, too!

Yes Carol, the sneaky little prickles leave nowhere to get a decent hold of two fingers around a cane. At least I can see thorns to avoid them better.

Michael Shoup said Autumn Damask has one the best fragrances in rosedom so I bought it. On occasion under the right conditions it is positively narcotic . Madame Hardy took 3 years to develop a gorgeous perfume IMHM.

Once my hand just lightly brushed a cactus and was instantly full of the darn tiny spines. The top of Evelyn near the bloom can be likened to it. She is now planted two yards away and looks better than she ever did in my garden.

I watch people grab a rose to smell it and cringe.

This is the nose and mouth that can't resist temptation- she not only smells them, she wants to eat them too.

Amara

Amara looks so intelligent!! But eating your roses!!! GASP!!! No, no!! :) :) And, of course, your Evelyn looks better in the other yard...sigh....why does that happen!!?? LOL I had that nose nirvana moment when I smelled Chrysler Imperial (didn't survive when my daughter left the garage door open one winter GGDO...Great Garage Die Off). I'm getting it again...just to smell that fragrance!!! It was a bareroot that only bloomed once.

Thank you Carol for the kind compliment to say she looks intelligent, Amara says you are very perceptive. Want a spoiled princess that got a new Canada Pooch coat while the paupers wear rags ?

I ran across a cake recipe decorated with rose petals- it did specify check for bugs first. That's another big danger eating roses fresh off the bush.

A few years ago there was an overgrown Chrysler Imperial , Oklahoma, and Mr Lincoln jungle at Lowes . Like Amara , I want to smell every rose, haven't had the urge to eat them yet. It's so hard to wade through all Lowe's tangled bushes around the outdoor tables. This year I think I'll ask for help before I need to call for help. I will be looking to find Chrysler Imperial Nirvana.

Berrypie - A new coat!! :) :) Do you have a picture of her in it? Yeah, I was watching a show about putting flower petals in ice cubes...and I was thinking that while being very pretty, I wouldn't want to be eating petals, anthers, bugs when the ice melts. :) :)

Carol, forgive me for not answering sooner-

One would have to drink fast before the ice melted, I bet the tenacious thrips would come back to life !

It took three days for the local Post Office to deliver Amara's coat from the time I got the update that her package was in town. The PO kept sending it out for delivery on the mail truck in the morning, and taking it back to the Post Office at night with a "you can pick it up " email but they were closed. I see why dogs chase mail trucks.

My son Doug suspected the frozen driver was wearing Amara's coat for work , that could be.

Here she is , roasting in her new Canada Pooch "Everest Explorer " coat in the house , we should have taken outdoor photographs.

I ordered the biggest Great Dane size and it just fit our Buxom Beauty around her barrel chest. The back part is too long but I can tack it up.

Super quality, I can't wait to get her a Spring raincoat.

Adorable!

Berrypie - she has such pretty eyes!! And she's so laissez-faire about wearing a coat...I'm chill...whatever... And the first picture with the hood really showcases her sweet face.

Princess Charlene is over 10 feet tall right now 9/14/22 in my zone 5a. It's a 4th-year own root.

Carding Mill is 2.5' x 2' right now as 11th-year own root. Carding Mill has bush beauty, Princess Charlene does not .. looks very odd with a super tall cane in the middle.

Carding Mill always have zillion petals, Princess Charlene has less petals (single or double) in hot summer.

Carding Mill loves hot & dry over 90 F. Since it's a small bush, it doesn't demand tons of water and fertilizer like other Austins that throw 4' octopus canes.

Carding Mill does best in hot & dry & alkaline region. Its color is deep apricot if soil pH is alkaline. I constantly have to top it with biochar at pH 8.6 to prevent blooms from turning pink.

Carding Mill is much smaller than Crown Princess Mag, but gives way more blooms.

Carding Mill is a constant bloomer, but CPM is long pause between flushes. Some pics. of Carding Mill, 11th-year own-root in my zone 5a garden in alkaline & rock hard clay.

Carding Mill is very small & compact at 2.5' x 2' as 11th-year own root:

Carding Mill has the nice apricot color plus zillion of petals for the vase: