I agree and have just filed an observation with the webmaster at Garden Web about the people who post snide, backbiting remarks to honest questions and concerns. Also, people who Hi-jack posts (see my "I Have Kudzu post) and read kstrongs posting about my Mandarin Very sad, I've noted to the Webmaster that Gardenweb used to be a friendly place but not anymore. Margaret

Welcome Maeve! I thoroughly agree with you. I am a "newbie" rose gardener too and know that sometimes we all forget what it was like when we were new at this. NO question is stupid and all are valid. How will we all learn if we are not taught?

I am glad that it is a minority that act that way! Most all on here are eager to help and are very accomplished rose people. Just remember to trust your own instincts! :)

Welcome again and I hope you'll come back! Don't let a few people spoil it for you.

Cathy

I've been observing the ebb and flow you're describing since at least the mid-90's. Some of these seemingly long-time posters weren't here even 5-10 years ago. I see some advice given that makes me cringe but I see some questions that I simply don't bother answering anymore as I'm almost certain the OP would find the answer in the FAQ or a recent posting.

There is never a reasonable excuse for rudeness, IMO, whether it's poking fun at a novice or writing long exposes that would require a Masters to comprehend.

As a recipient of some snide comments many years ago and more than one flaming, I stopped visiting regularly and mostly contribute only to questions from my zone. Many of you will notice the number of various rose-related forums. For the most part, these originated from in-fighting.

Just ignore rude people. They are on every internet board I've been on. Don't let them chase you away or ruin your enjoyment of the board. FWIW, it use to be a lot worse :)

Like Buford, I also ignore it & never even give it a second thought. Not worth worring about. ;-)

I can tell you this that for every person who has been rude or unpleasant, and that has been the exception and not the rule, there have been three who have been helpful. I'm not making any excuses for anyone but overall my experience on Garden Web in general has been good. I hope yours becomes more positive.

Having said that on a free public forum there will never be a perfect way to make people behave in a specific way. Its take the wheat and the chaff together. Overall I think people on the rose forum are pretty well behaved.

Kate

I also have found this board to be quite insightful and most of the poster are very helpful. There will always be a few rude people in any batch. Your right there is no bad question.

I'm certainly getting tons of help. And I guess I'll continue to ask the questions that get answered with a ROFL until I make myself ROFL for already knowing the answer!

Sorry about the Masters post earlier, if it was me. I'll try to let the air out of my windbags. :)

At least if you encounter rudeness here, you don't have to see the person or deal with them face-to-face. Believe me, it's much worse when you're talking to a CR in person and they snort at your choices for roses in your personal garden. THAT is just rude.

I just want to say thank you for all of the compliments, kind answers, and information I've received. Keep it coming!

Welcome, Maeve! Hope you continue to ask questions - I have learned the most from questions other people ask. Have you also checked out the antique roses forum on GW? It is very interesting, and very helpful. I have been growing roses for 20 years, and still think I know nothing about them compared to some of the folks on both of the GW rose forums.

I agree that the best response to any rude or sarcastic comments you may unfortunately get is to ignore them, and forget about them immediately. Life is to short to be bothered by fools.

In many years of reading these forums, and asking some questions myself, I have only had one or two nasty remarks directed my way, compared with hundreds of helpful, kind ones.

Jackie

Thanks for all the responses. As I said in my original post, I've found this forum to be a wealth of information, filled with helpful and kind rosarians, and I certainly have no intention of leaving ;-) The brouhaha over nurseries closing, and the dearth of new gardeners interested in roses other than knock-outs, just made me ponder the logic of cherishing, rather than scorning, new enthusiasts.

-Maeve

I am wondering what the fuss is about - I have NEVER seen ROFL anywhere on either of the two rose forums I use. I myself have been quite contentious many times and have been on the recieving end of a verbal slap too. Frankly, you could go over to garden junk which is, as far as i can see, a tedious pile of people congratulating themselves for their towers of teacups (??) or you could really get adventurous and visit the compost forums (I tried that to see if I could get in a good argument or two but it was deadeningly technical)
So yes, I raher enjoy a good spat and certainly have no interest in smugly self-congratulatory 'isn;t it all wonderful' - I want to learn stuff. not have my back patted and a bit of controversy always fires up the blood. So really, either just ignore it or get on with it.

I also don't understand what the problem is.
I thought kudzu was a little toy tonet thing you blew through and could try to make music. I never heard of the weed or rose whatever it is. So, I didn't read much of the post.

Many of us are very busy. We read or barely read posts, give out opinion and move on. Sadly some new people may not express their questions well, and the answers given here may sound abrupt or off topic.

Some posters are simply characters that you learn to admire and respect -- or don't.

I rather like it here myself. I only report threads that violate TOS, but that is only my opinion.

Sammy

There is one poster who has been here from the very early days and who has grown increasingly grumpy, so just ignore. I don't know of any other regulars who are rude to beginners. You should be aware that there are clever trolls who try to stir up discord in online communities. There is a long history of that here, but I haven't seen anything lately.

The flareup on the kudzu thread occurred when one poster took offense unnecessarily. We do not own the threads we start and are not entitled to complain about hijacking, except for spam. Spam should be reported to the webmaster.

First Ammendment says We all have the right to speak freely,
without the use of profanity and such.

Second Ammendment says We have the right to choose.
In some cases (more times than not) someone/anyone can choose what they want words and phrases to mean. Which can often become one vicus cycle if more than one person chooses to do what others can also do on any given topic.

Whats worse is (if you read it wrong) what I just said is in accordance to the United States Constitution but not GW's TOS which is NOT abouve the law allowing both me and GW to be right (but if you read it correctly then...)

Making suggestions to anyone growing anything including helping a new poster with roses can sometimes read (or look) confusing and can appear offending to anyone at anytime regardless of the wording or phrases used.

I think what is being read are individuale experiances in many different gardens where one persons results are certainly going to be different from someone elses.

I have no idea why certain people find it helpful to refference themselves and sound off in a manner to be abouve others with out reading and understanding the information at hand, but thats there choice.

On topic or off topic a good forum rule of thumb for me is if I'm offended by what I read then I need to read it again later in the day.
Usually I find that I did read it wrong the first time and find there is a bit of advice in there somewhere and can even laugh at myself about the inital mis read information.

However even then and at very best I'm not in debt to GW's free and public forum or any of it's members

IMO the occasional grumpy/rude/overly sensitive poster is not reason eneough to leave a forum as fantastic as this. I get a wealth of information and pertinent advice here that I would only get by amassing tons of books. So I just ignore the negative people. And honestly, there aren't that many of them. Some other boards on the Internet are far, far worse.

While I appreciate the advice to ignore rudeness and to not let the rosier-than-thou 'spoil' my experience here, the point of my original post was missed. I have not experienced rudeness specifically directed my way on the forum, and I am too healthily thick-skinned to bypass knowledge I crave because of a poster's communication style.

Many of you took my OP and ran with it to a galaxy far, far away. My point was not the right to free speech, the right to hijack posts, or even the right to an overly-inflated sense of one's own importance, if that's what floats your boat. My point was simply that some reflection on civil discourse with new rose lovers might be in order if, as a community, you are worried about the decline of the rose trade.

Let's put this baby to bed. I'm already busy making a list of prospects for my spring planting, and I'll need all your crabby advice :-)

-Maeve

You suggest that we be courteous to new people, but frankly we are. Possibly some people speak before they think, but we really are a very caring group.

It seems to me that we debate with each other, and we often argue over the same things. That is who we are. Often the posts are adequately named, and many people may know to avoid certain subjects.

Once you write a post we can run with it, and we can run with parts of it also.

What do you mean that you will need our crabby advice?

Sammy

Maeves was joking when she/he said that.

Hmmm . . . All this taking of offense must be in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think this forum has been pretty tame for a very long while, and very accepting of/helpful to rose tyros.

Maeve & Flaurabunda, I must agree with Companula's comment above regarding rude responses of 'ROFL'. Can you specify when such a response(s) occured here? I just did a 'ROFL' search of this forum and nothing much showed up; and what did was hardly denigrating. Perhaps some of the regulars here might justly be chastized for various behaviours/comments, but it's neither fair nor helpful to levy charges that can't readily be demonstrated/verified.

IMHO, the most incendiary thread of late is the Kudzu give & take that's already been referenced here. There, a regular poster was soundly castigated for asking a question that, I dare say, at least 99.9% of all regulars were very keen to have answered. It was a question having to do with ROSES, posted on a ROSE forum, but on a thread about a foreign invasive that, in point of fact, has nothing whatsoever to do with ROSES.

When that regular had the temerity to ask a cogent, very simple question about a reputedly rare rose, we're told she was, forthwith, reported to the forum police! Did I get that right or did I read something into the exchange that isn't there? If there's anything "snide and backbiting" in that exchange (as is indicated in a post above), I feel it's neither kstrong's initial question nor her subsequent defense of that question.

Maeve finds the overall "tone of this board" to be objectionable. I find the tone of this specific thread to be somewhat ominous. It's troubling to have the regulars here handed an indictment based on charges that are unsubstantiated and only vaguely articulated. Rootygirl would have us conclude that some of this is merely a joke. Well . . .

Thank you, jaxondel. I really didn't want to take part in this, but I did find that the interpretation of the kudzu thread is very puzzling. I found kstrong's comments polite, to the point and actually having to do with roses. I find it incredible that the original poster of kudzu started a thread so totally unrelated to roses on the rose forum, then complained about it being hijacked, and then said that kstrong's comments were rude simply because she pointed out that quite a few other people grew the "unique" rose. I find some people's sensitivities very hard to understand...

Masha

Compared to other forums, gardenweb in general is extremely nice. The posters here are far, far, far more mature, knowledgeable and even-keeled than the usual rabblers that inhabit other places. I don't even think I've ever seen an instance of bad behaviour here.

First of all, what is ROFL?

Second, my Garden Junk "tower of teacups" IS fantastic!

Third, in the immortal words of Thumper..."if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all."

Finally, maybe there should be a contrary forum for those who like a good fight and want to start a sparring match :)

Just FYI -- The ROFL that is being complained about by the OP is in the "how many nurseries will we lose" post sequence.

And yes, I was trying to be polite in the kudzu thread, and I'm glad some of you recognized that. The link to KnockOut under the title "Kudzu on HMF" was meant to be lighthearted, to get the thread back on track and to show that no serious offense was intended or taken.

Thanks
Kathy

Jaxondel, I think Rootygirl was responding to Sammy's question to me: "What do you mean that you will need our crabby advice?" -- which was Sammy's response to my attempt to defuse the thread with a humorous comment on the previous advice from many posters to ignore crabbiness, ie. "Let's put this baby to bed. I'm already busy making a list of prospects for my spring planting, and I'll need all your crabby advice :-) "

This is getting a tad ridiculous now. I don't know what you are referencing with the kudzu thread, as I didn't read it. My post, as I've now clarified several times, had to do with
my observation of the tone used by A FEW (as I clearly stated) to new posters. That was my perception, and nothing more. All this circling the wagons is a waste of time, and I do apologize for the apparent infraction of
posting an honest opinion in a civil manner. I will stick to specific rose questions from now on.

-Maeve

Food for thought: donÂt open a can of worms that you cant count

Gardening is my meditation and my relaxation after a long day of dealing with students! It teaches me patience, hope, and faith.

Does this look familiar to you maevesgarden ?

To me it means your not original, unfortunately for rootygirl it isn't a joke just as you cant be serious to want a certain reaction/ exclamation to a rare rose that has little or nothing to do with you.

Are you sure it's only " STUDENTS" that put stress in your life cause it looks like maybe you invite some of it as well !

On this world there are usually a dozen sold @ 1.99 a can

I read what I think were the comments that may have spurred this thread. The poster (one of the most knowledgeable, polite, and generous we have) wasn't laughing at either the OP or the comment that had been made. I know exactly what the poster meant, I had the same reaction, and it wasn't directed at the person posing the question.

It takes time to learn the personalities of the folks who post here. You learn their shorthand. You get a feel for what they mean. If their meaning wasn't clear, ask that person what they meant.

I hope this hasn't given you a bad feeling, we are generally a generous group, but we all have very different communication styles. I think a clarifying question may have cleared up the issue.

What the heck brought that on? Man, Monday can't be THAT bad. Could we please stop the sucker punches out of left field?

Now really, everyone----I'm new. New to roses, new to this forum. And YES---some of this utter garbage being posted is a real turn off. Virtually, when someone spouts hateful & rude tripe, something in the back of my mind registers them as someone who's advice I will NEVER TAKE on this forum. So just cut it out, because I can't hear the good words over the foot you just stuck in your mouth.

However, if the goal is chase off new people, then it just might work. I was left a little embarrassed and wondered what brought on the response that Kathy identified (thank you---I didn't know how to do it diplomatically). I didn't want to say anything at the time, but it did irk me. I got over it & figured that maybe there was something really funny about the response that I just didn't get, or maybe some people just think it's funny to laugh at new members. Real encouraging, there.

C'mon folks, this is a pretty good forum. Let's keep it that way.

For anyone who thinks the overall tone of this forum is rude I would highly recommend you spend some time on any of a number of political forums that I visit and you will come back here and rejoice in the flowing rivers of the milk of human kindness.

This place is where I come to escape the angry real world out there - I have read all the supposedly offensive posts I am sure, as while I post seldom, I read nearly everything - and trust me the sharpest tongued person here does not rise above the lovable curmudgeon level.

To me it means your not original, unfortunately for rootygirl it isn't a joke just as you cant be serious to want a certain reaction/ exclamation to a rare rose that has little or nothing to do with you.>>

Aside from not knowing what exactly that incoherent ramble means, Mrlike, I'm not sure how my post justified an ad hominem attack. But thanks for looking so carefully at my profile for further ammunition.

To all the thoughtful responders: thanks, and I have taken your point about becoming familiar with personalities and writing styles. I am very sorry to have caused any disruption to this valuable forum.

-Maeve

Be nice kids!

I just 'don't get it'... and lottirose hit it right, if you go on any of the news-forums where they ask opinions abt. stuff, all the nut-cakes are there in full throttle.... I myself LOVE these Garden Web Forums, all of them, so full of great kind folks who share their knowledge and send in pics of their gardens, some of which are not to my taste but I would never say-so because it all comes from the heart..... we are all just a bunch of neighbors with dirt under our fingernails hanging over the back-fence and we all appreciate a kind-word..... just my 2 pennies worth..............sally

This is all too 'VANCED for me. None of us are perfect. I relise that some of us are rather verbose. Our IT guy sends out these 2-3 page memos that no one understands. It is not his fault. He was born that way. No one gets upset, well most us don't get upset, at least all of the time.

I only pop in and out to this forum now and then, as I suffer from RRD. That is a rose disease, and it is a bad one.

I feel better now that only two HP's and one climber bit the dust this year. Whoops! See below also.

As far as the ARS goes, I think that they are trying to adjust with the tide, although at the last show this weekend there were only three classes open to me as I have only 4 HTs out of over 110 Roses. (I got three trips to the Royality Table- nah na nah na :-P

I did order a bunch of rootstock this spring, and I am going to re-try grafting HT roses on to rootstock. One was successful last year but it came down with RRD. Bummer!

I was grafting roses last night, and hope to continue today after work. Who am I to diss all of the crowd that grows and loves HTs? I am going to try it anyways.

I have most of the time found this forum entertaining and fun. Those who are close to the soil are close to their higher power.

In the past those who got out of line, when they tried to log in got Disneys website. It was called being sent to Disney. I was only sent there once.

I am not sure if they are doing that anymore. Thanks for your post, Maeve. It does sound like a lot of hard work for an old man. When I get out of line, just, let me know.

Foghorn Loghorn
International Anti Grass League

This is your thread. Why don't you ask that we stop posting, and just let the thread die.

Just say: Please don't post on this anymore.

Sammy

i think she tried, bless, but we all got the bit between our teeth and ran with it.

lavenderlass, I don't believe your question about ROTFL was ever answered. It means "rolling on the floor laughing" which is usually a response to someone having said something very funny or witty.

Maeve, it took your response about us "crabby people" in the way I believe it was intended, tongue in cheek, meant to be humorous and to bring an end to this discussion. The symbol you placed after it should have made it clear that you weren't serious. I found the tone of your opening letter to be literate, polite and non-confrontational.

I gather you haven't been on this forum for years and years. Had you been, you'd have been witness to numerous queries made by new rose gardeners, some of then unfortunately grammatical and compositional horrors, which were answered politely and at length by some kind soul who took the time to instruct someone new to roses. Also quite often, there was then no further contact from the new person, not even a thank you for the time and trouble taken. I can tell you that in my few years here the polite responses have vastly outweighed the ones you mention. I think it is this knowledge, by people who have been forum members for a fairly long time, that has caused such a strong response. I do agree with you that the subject has been exhausted and we can safely move on to our favorite topic, dishing about roses.

Ingrid

We all need to take a deep breath, relax, and take a roadtrip to Karl's house so we can help him get his Cannabis
plants straightened out. ;-)

Ingrid- Thank you! I thought it meant read on forum something...

I don't think anyone got my attempt at humor on the second comment, so I'm going to go now. (But my tea cup tower is fantastic LOL) :)

Okay, that's twice today that I've been caught off guard with that joke & laughed myself silly.

I have Thursday & Friday off, and it's not that long of a drive for me.....anyone else going? We can take a stack of lavender lasses' teacups & have High Tea with herbs. :)

jaxondel: the point is A) that was a posting about Kudzu, kstrong went on a tangent,asked Karl, didn't bother to ask me since it was to me that Gregg at Vintage sent his email to, telling me that Vintage lost their only Mandarin and he is the one who told me that I may have the last Mandarin in existance. Kstrong then went on to say that Gregg has thousands of roses and would not bother with just one rose. Well, he sure as heck would if it was the very last one in existance and Cliff at Euroroses had it. Gregg would have gone to get a cutting. This is what I mean about Hi-jacking a post. Kstrong did it again when I posted the question, "What Constitutes A Spot". Kstrong and and Flaurabunda got offtrack and started posting about understock, "Is this a Dr. Huey?" That did not belong in the "What Constitutes A Sport" posting. Also, what is this about Karl and Cannabis?? Are you trying to be funny jim1961??

He didn't try to be funny, he succeeded.

I didn't post anything asking if my plant was Dr. Huey. I posted a picture to see if the cane coming up on my rose constituted a sport. I specifically said that it does NOT look anything like Huey. It fit the topic, and I got great feedback regarding my question.

(sighs)....things were going so well there for a couple of posts.

Summer Fashion,
As I told you by e-mail, If you've been following the thread, I suggested I grew Cannabis. It was a joke but any comments are deserving. I don't consider it sarcasm or not being friendly. I consider it funny and not deserving of any further comments unless one wants to carry the joke on farther.
Too many people have thin skins. If someone does make a real sarcastic comment regarding me or a post, I just ignore it and it goes away, unless someone else jumps in and then it gets blown way out of proportion. It's not
worth my time or effort to make additional comments!
I'm a big boy and can defend myself if I feel it's worth doing so. So far I see nothing to worry about and Jim, if you really want to help, come on down. I think you'll be a little disappointed though, I don't smoke. I sell commercially. Not!
Come on folks, be nice!

Flaurabunda- Thank you for commenting on my teacups!

Actually, I do not have a teacup tower (yet, but it's an interesting idea...) but I do love to drink tea.

If you like Earl Grey or Jasmine, we're set, but otherwise, bring your own. Also, if you really like tea, swing by Cottage Garden Conversations on Thursday. Some of us actually do get together on Thursday and enjoy a well-deserved break with a cup of tea...or your favorite beverage :)

No dissapointment here Karl. :-)
Cannibis with a side order of Epsom salts, might be toxic anyhow. (LOL)
I knew you were only kidding, just thought i'd roll with it alittle. ;-)

Well, I hope you all get this subject straightened out soon,
and get back to talking about JB's, fungus, and all that other neat stuff. ;-)

Yes, that was fun though, wasn't it?

karl, I can be there in an hour!