Here in Western Washington we do not have a humidity problem but in the spring and fall rain and rain and rain...well you get it. Many Ht's and Floribunda's get oodles of BS especially in the fall. I have ordered many EarthKind roses from Chamblee in Tyler Texas. They have performed magnificently. Amongst the OGR's most dont get BS. Those that do have not had significant leaf drop. There are exceptions however. So if anyonbe is looking for excellent roses that do well in this area the Chamblee list of Earthkind roses is a great starting point for an easy to care for garden. Jeannie

I will be there Friday evening setting up with the Texas Rose Rustlers and will leave Sunday morning. Kathy (plantloverkat), I am so happy that you will be there and I am looking forward to meeting others from this wonderful forum. Molly

It is not "overly vigorous" at all here in my zone 9 garden in No California. As a matter of fact, I owned it for 20 years before I even found out it was a climber! When we moved into our 1905 house, there were 3 of them growing in various parts of the garden. All were in what was now deep shade. I loved it, but had no idea what it was. One died, I moved one, rooted another, and ended up with 2 in the sun. I know it can be controlled easily, because that was what I did without thinking much about it. Then I finally found out what it was, and my DH built me a climbing structure for one of them, and I left the long canes and tied them along a fence on the other one. However, it is still just climbing slowly, not rampant at all. Here is a pic of mine, still in the bottom half of its structure: Jackie P.S. If you want more, it tip roots easily - one of mine had made 2 extra plants before I noticed.

Thanks for the shoulder, guys. I know very well that I can move things around even in spring, but wouldn't it be nice to put them in their 'forever home' (ha!) the first time. I'm not that bad about plotting generally, I don't think, it's just the stupid deal about the difference of say 3x3 vs 8x5! This is TREMENDOUSLY confounded by the problem of wasted time and difficulty digging holes up here - if I were back by the coast I wouldn't give moving a bush over a couple of feet a second thought (we bought a jackhammer the first summer when we were planting the 15gal trees). Another reason to buy bands - then you only need a hole sized for a gal pot at best. I also know very well that I should have posted pics for suggestions a long time ago but always think of something better to do than go through pics and endure the photobucket upload. Stay tuned for more "wack-a-doodle" posts this week, if you don't mind ;-) Today I have to get out and get *something* done. Pam, thanks for the thoughts. I think you're probably right about how long we have colder temps being important than the snow issue, for sure I don't worry about snow damage except when we get a lot and then the ice block melts and breaks branches. Interestingly, there are not a lot of roses up here (Blaze is the only one I see around town) because they grow so well - probably due to ground squirrels as much as lack of interest. Fortunately, I've only had a relatively small amount of gopher damage and in an isolated area. Otoh, the hardware store sure sold quite a few this summer but they are a poor example as the gal that runs the garden center prunes the HTs in front to an inch of their lives in the fall. I've tried to talk to her about it but you know how that goes... Btw, Pam, I posted a thread on the Roses forum you might want to respond to. I was asking those that got your roses for the first time from Vintage to comment on how they were doing and report any geographic variations on possible disease. Hopefully we'll get some good reports and more will be purchased next season! Sherry, I know exactly what you mean about the blank page, I'm a good copier, too! Connie, tempest fugit is no kidding. Hopefully we don't get cold weather until after Halloween... Thanks again! Kerin