Nothing against Palatine, but Pickering, for one reason. They state clearly every rose they obtain has been virus indexed. That means every rose they offer has been tested for and cleaned if needed, of Rose Mosaic Virus. No other nursery to my knowledge makes that claim nor has gone to such effort to make sure the stock they are offering you is not infected with RMV. In mild climates, RMV often makes no difference. In harsher climates, it can reportedly cause shortening of the plant's life and reduction in its performance. Whether it is an issue to you or in your climate, given my preference, I want uninfected roses in my garden. Those from Pickering have all been indexed, so they are free from Rose Mosaic Virus. Kudos to Pickering for making these efforts! Kim
From Pickering's FAQ page:

Q: There's a variety I want but I'm concerned about Rose Mosaic Virus? I've heard that Canadian roses are virus-free, can I be sure?

A: We are absolutely sure that we have no virused plants in our fields. The budwood we receive from our sources is Virus-indexed and therefore virus free. Aside from that, we cover many miles walking our field inspecting the plants for issues such as mislabeled/ stray plants and disease/ pest infestations. New varieties are heavily scrutinized. We want to make sure that the variety is a good one and to be sure that it is healthy and lives up to its description.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pickering FAQ page

The roses I have received from Palatine have consistently been larger and more vigorous than those I ought from Pickering. They have also never exhibited a trace of virus.

Palatine's site mentions their climate is milder than many, hence the larger plants. Never exhibiting symptoms means nothing. It is common for roses to remain asymptomatic for MANY years before expressing them. Lack of symptoms does not mean the plant is not infected, just as lack of symptoms in humans does not indicate lack of many viruses. Newer varieties which have been created within the past decade or so, may well be clean as efforts to prevent the spread of RMV have been much greater than in prior years. But, the only way to KNOW is to have them tested for it, just as the only way to KNOW a person is "virus free" is to be tested. It's the same thing, just different organisms and different diseases. Kim

I didn't intend to suggest that an absence of symptoms indicated an absence of virus--I know that, thank you. But the fact that Palatine can't claim to use virus-indexed material shouldn't suggest that their plants are suspect. I know you didn't intend to suggest that, Kim, but the point bears repeating.

It's consistently reported here that Palatine's roses are larger, more vigorous, etc. than Pickering's. After years of ordering from both of those Canadian vendors, I've yet to see a difference in quality and size of the bareroots each ships -- or in their eventual garden performance.

I've purchased from Pickering for many years and have never received a rose that exhibits signs of RMV. In the fewer years I've dealt with Palatine, they have shipped two virused plants to me -- both were ordered in the same year, and both were the HT 'Louise Estes'. The virus was apparent immediately upon leaf-out the first spring, and became progressively more severe as temps rose in early summer.

I promptly sent a cordial "heads-up" to Palatine to let them know that their LE was definitely infected with RMV. In reply, there was nothing from Palatine but a deafening SILENCE. I've continued to order from them from time to time, but I now have reason to wonder if they place much of a premium on customer service. (They did, however, quickly yank 'Louise Estes' from their list of available roses, and she's never appeared there again.)

Pickering, in my experience, has never failed to be responsive and accommodating when I've reported minor glitches with orders. I feel confident in saying that they would not have totally ignored a customer's report of a diseased rose.

Windeaux, unfortunately I have seen a difference, marked at times, and at least a couple of my Pickering roses in the past never even woke from 'dormancy.' Pickering graciously credited me for them so I've no beef with them over that or anything. Like you, I can only report what my own experience has been. I'm surprised that they Palatine never responded to you--it doesn't match my own experience with them.
I think we're lucky to have two such vendors of budded OGRs!

Sounds like an interesting test for someone with the room and other resources to make. Purchase the same quantity of the same varieties at the same time from both sources. Grow them side by side for a period of time and report on the comparison. Kim

Actually, as I previously stated, it is up to the individual business how they wish to address the virus issue, or whether they wish to address it at all. Palatine obviously chooses not to address it as evidenced by the lack of any mention I can find on their site and their stated performance regarding the obviously infected plants. That doesn't make them "bad" or otherwise undesirable, unless this is an issue important to you. Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Sun, Sep 8, 13 at 15:54

I ignored this thread earlier today, but now (in a state of acute late Sunday evening ennui) I'm glad I opened it. Here's my 2 cents:

After Palatine arrived on the scene sometime during the past 10 yrs or so, I was intrigued by references to the super-large plants they were sending. Several seasons passed before I finally placed my first Palatine order for five or six roses that I couldn't find elsewhere. When that Palatine order arrived, I was surprised first by the small size of the box, then by the modest size of the plants. They were quite comparable in size to plants I was accustomed to receiving from Pickering.

After my initial disappointment, the obvious occurred to me: Pickering and Palatine use the same rootstock, are located in the same general area with basically the same conditions and the same short growing season. Their attention to care and cultivation appear to be comparable, so, given all those similarities, ofcourse their plants are going to be comparable.

As for plants that "never even woke from dormancy", that describes one of the plants I received from Palatine -- 'Special Occasion', to be exact. Probably Palatine would have replaced it had I ever got around to notifying them. At the point in springtime when it becomes obvious that a non-starter is occupying space, there's always far too much else going on around here to stop and tend to tedious business. I've yet to re-order 'Special Occasion'. I really want to try growing that rose.

I never ordered from Pickering. I have liked what I was sent from Palatine. It is a family run rose nursery not a big company. They have always been super nice to me. Shipping to CA has been expensive and they want to send the plants so that they spend the shortest time in transit to be the best that they can be. I think they care very much about the quality of plants they send out.

I have ordered from both and been very happy with both. I would recommend purchasing your roses from Pickering if you can for another reason. I'm sure last year's inability of Pickering to ship to the US was a heavy blow. If they are up and running again for US shipments, I recommend that everybody who can purchase from them do so in support of them and the quality product they supply.

Great suggestion, zaphod42.

Thank you greatly everyone. As I have mentioned before, I have only received wonderful customer service for both. However a penny saved is a penny earned and with the amount of roses I am ordering, $3 less a rose means I can have multiple new roses so my Pickering order got bigger and my Palatine order got a little smaller (still substantial). I don't mind slightly smaller roses and Zaphod really does make a good point. As always, I appreciate the help!

Karolina

Duplicate post - - - Something truly strange is going on with my posts . . .

This post was edited by jaxondel on Tue, Sep 10, 13 at 14:30

Palatine does add some interesting and exclusive roses every year and be sure to look at them so you don't miss out on something really special that you can't get anywhere else.