I'm a member of the choir that's long been singing the praises of SdlM (and her several sports). IMHO, you're absolutely right in your observation that they just don't get any better than this one.

I agree. It's nearly perfect.

I love her so much, I'm considering replacing several of my marginally pleasing roses with SDLM!

Sherry , how is your Mystic Beauty doing ? Remember, we got them abt. the same time, during the cold spell in Jan. Mine is lovely and blooms a lot, but she is still short, maybe 12-14 inches tall, and wide, twice as wide as tall... but no BS, and the prettiest blooms almost constantly, of a nice size. I planted her next to Spice, and Spice has blooms half the size and the plant is wimpier, but no BS..... sally

Sally, mine is about the same size. It blooms but not very much. Hopefully, it just needs to grow up. Glad yours is doing well. I like the no BS part. :))

Sherry

Well, one needs Knock-Outs because in my climate, SDM is only marginally hardy...I've lost two over the years. (although only 1% of my roses are Knock-Outs because I don't want to admit I grow them at all).

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings

No insult intended, Professor, I just wish more people knew about and grew this rose. On the other hand you have given SdlM a valiant try - twice. I guess she's not quite perfect enough, but in warm/hot climates, she's great. What's the "perfect rose" in your garden?

BTW, some of the KO's are very tempting at the garden store. Fortunately, I have a full garden so I can play like the strong one and resist the temptation. :))

Sherry

Well Sherry, You guys have convinced me. I'll get one. I've seen pictures of SDM several times and had the chance to get some cheap but didn't (rats). Plus, one of my first roses was a KO and I killed it the first winter so, maybe this one will work for me. Does it get as large as your Le Vesuve?
Thanks,
Kitty

Yes! This one is going to be my first (true) antique rose. I'm going to order it this winter. Please let me know if there is a particular vendor I should order from. I would like something larger than a band, if that is possible.

Thanks,
Rooty

Rooty, Antique Rose Emporium has 2-gall sizes and Roses Unlimited has 1 gallon sizes. Both are good to go with, or you can go with a bareroot, which are larger than bands, too... so then someplace like Chamblee's or Pickering.

well if you like it check out it's white sport Kronprincessin Viktoria great repeat and quite vigorous and same great fragrance.

All the roses I have bought from Chamblees have been "ownroot" in trade gallon size pots. I've never gotten a "bareroot" from Chamblees. Has Chamblees started grafting?

Robert

Well, she is good ONLY in hot climates it seems. Anywhere outside of the tropical climates it seems that she is a balling queen, gets a lot of disease and definitely not hardy in z4.

It is strange really, since I grow a few other bourbons and they do ok so far, but SdLM is a complete disaster (I do not even want to try a climbing version since it is apparently worse). I can put up with some balling, but balling and all imaginable disease together is where I draw a SP line. :D

Not to sound negative, but if you are not in a hot climate, it is really not a good choice, there are plenty of roses that do much much better. It is fun to read the praises for one or the other rose on the forums, but really a lot depends on a climate, if conditions are different than where the OP is growing it, this rose will be a huge disappointment. :)

My SdlMs look very puny and weak until the heat really starts up. Following a cold winter, she has quite a bit of die back and takes at least a month of real heat (90-100+) to start blooming blooming well. Many roses don't flourish/bloom during the worst of the desert heat here in north Texas. She and Stanwell Perpetual are two of the few that seem like it better the hotter it gets.
Not to rain on parades, but I would think twice about expeced similar performance in places with cool summers.

Robert, no, you're right! That was a mistake on my part

Maybe someone from the midwest will chime in to let us know if SdlM likes their shorter, HOT summers. Unfortunately, I only have my own garden and climate to go by. Kitty, if you can protect your roses from the winter by tipping them, that's great as long as you have a few months of heat in the summer. Sdlm does not get as big as LeVesuve, and I don't think LeVesuve would get as big for you as it does in the south and west. It all depends on how hot it gets in MN and how long it lasts - and how consistent the heat is. I don't think hot, cool, hot, warm, cool, etc. will work as well. That would be like our spring when these teas and short-caned Bourbons are not at there best yet. I didn't mean to get you guys excited in vain. I should have known she was heat dependent, but healthy, no-spray, blooming rose bushes in central Florida are not common at all, so I just had to share my exhilaration about her.

Sherry

Thanks for the vendor suggestions, aimee (decisions, decisions). Thanks everyone for the info about short bourbons and teas; now I will know that they may be slow to get started before the heat arrives.
Kronprincessin V and Mystic Beauty were mentioned. There was a thread about SDLM and her sports in July that I really enjoyed and saved. Here is the link if anyone wants it. (this is my 1st time posting a link, so let's see if it works.)

Here is a link that might be useful: sdlm and her sports

that's great as long as you have a few months of heat in the summer. Sdlm does not get as big as LeVesuve, and I don't think LeVesuve would get as big for you as it does in the south and west.

We over here can get about 1.5 month of real heat, but that seems to be too short for the teas, more petaled bourbons and some chinas. I suppose, SdLM should be considered if people get more summery weather than that. Problem often also is not only the day temps, but also temperatures dropping low in the nights (what happens in dry climates sometimes, very hot days and very chilly nights).

Le Vesuve here stays about 1x1 meter shrub at the best, also even in my z8 it is better to winter protect it during colder winters, since it is rather tender. :)

Hi Sherry, I copied this from a MN rose farm's website: Souvenir de la Malmaison
Lovely, full buds open slowly to creamy pink, very large and very full, exquisite blooms on a compact bush. Its fragrance has spicy overtones. In our garden itÂs a generous bloomer, especially in warm, dry weather, but be warned that its flowers may not open in wet weather. It needs some winter protection in cold, windy areas. 2Â (1843) gr

Even if I wouldn't have come accross this, I would be willing to try SDLM. I'm well aware what does well in my neighbor's garden, let alone one accross the country, may not do well in mine. So, please keep singing the praises of your favorite roses and I will research if it will do well for me.

Kitty

Elemire, I had no idea that you have Le Vesuve growing there. That's very cool. Gee, if he and other teas stayed 3x3 here, just think how many roses I could have!!

OK, Kitty, keep us posted on which ones you try and how they do. I like your spunk and expect to see photos next year. :))

Sherry

Oh well, time to stir the pot again but I am slightly bewildered by the love you have for what is a bland and vague rose with messy petal formations, tendency to age nastily and, on top of everything, is a disease magnet. Must agree with Elemire that this really must be a rose for hot climates. In the UK, it looks a bit meh. My neighbour grows this and Gloire de Dijon; although she raves about the three or four blooms she gets at any time, I fail to see why these roses have such stellar reputations. Smells OK though, i s'pose. (brace yourself, Suzy) Souvenir de St.Annes is rather prettier if still the same face-powder colour.

"Who needs Knock-Outs when this rose exists??"

Amen, Sistah!

Here in north central Texas, these roses are splendid!

Sorry it doesn't do that well further north, but I bet you have a rose that compares.

Suzy, you'll have to come on holiday next August to see Sylvia in Texas and me in Florida, and we'll see who wilts first...you or Souvenir de la Malmaison's perfect blooms.

Ditto on the Amen, Sistah...er, Sylvia!

Sherry

I guess - its cardies and jumpers time here again! I do love heat though and have many fantasies about living in a hot hot climate. Then again, i also like having seasons (but would happily miss out winter) Overall, gardening in a temperate climate such as the UK is infinately rewarding and (almost) makes up for horrid dark, cold winters - January is usually a hell month complete with SAD, much eating of biscuits, sleeping - a lot - and moaning about the weather. I would visit Florida in a shot (but probably not Disneyworld or Orlando, which sounds like little britain and to be avoided). And of course, climate is everything, SDLM seems to go well with magnolias, gardenias, heliotrope and all those other southern beauties but for me, in East Anglia's sere light but huge skies, it is just another pasty rose.

Sherry, I have 9 SDLM plants in 4 different beds. I just love them. I also have a Kronprincessin Viktoria and 2 Souvenir de ST. Annes. THey are some of my favorites. They bloom as early as any of my roses and continue until frost with the others.

I just marvel at their beauty. We are much farther north than you, but they are successful here.

Sammy

Sherry and Sally, my Mystic Beauty has gradually grown to 3 x 3' despite suffering tip damage or worse every winter. I'm sure it will make 4 x 4' in warm climates. However, it is not as vigorous for me as Kp Viktoria or Souv. de St. Anne's. MB balls some in my climate, but not as much as SdlM or Capt. Dyel. It has enjoyed our unusually hot summer, and it is blooming heavily right now.

I had SDLM for five years before it succumbed to a difficult winter. It never got big but one summer it was like a full bouquet of flowers, more flowers than foliage. Now I have Kronprinzessin Viktoria (N.B. German and spelled with z and k) and in a better location, in a raised bed below the neighbours' wall and it is doing great. I like it even better than SDLM. It has a more definite personality. My climate is much colder than East Anglia, otherwise rather similar with little rain in spring and summer.

An aside: Kronprinzessin Victoria with a c is a red HT named for the present Crown Princess of Sweden who just married her personal trainer, now Prince Daniel. There probably won't be a rose named for him.

Question: is it the COLD wet that makes them ball? They seem to handle HOT wet quite well. Of course, a downpour will mess them up pretty bad and cause them to hang their heads from the weight (not unusual, I guess, for any flower). And there seems to be a point in the bud development when, if we have rain, the bud will not open - doesn't happen often.

Sammy, 9 SdlM's is definitely something to strive for in my garden. Mine would have to be in groupings - no room to spread them out. Wow, just imagine a bank of them blooming all summer. Hmmm, something to keep in mind in case of future failure(s). I have 3 plants, and 2 will soon be neighbors. I have MB & CDdG next to each other, hopefully in enough sun for their liking, but if they have to be moved that might be a good thing, right?

Suzy, I wish I could "send" you some heat or "attach" it to my photos. To show how amazing this rose is here, even my Louis Philippe, aka The Florida Rose, took a break from blooming in August. I noticed this morning it suddenly has flower buds & lots of new leaves from all the rain we've had this week, but SdlM has kept pumping out her voluptuous fragrant flowers that even now are darker pink in the center, fading to pale pink at the edges - just lovely. (I wish I'd taken a picture.) Location, location, location! Your "bland and vague rose with messy petal formations, tendency to age nastily and, on top of everything, is a disease magnet" is not the rose I grow. Come ahead to Florida (Ocala) anytime. You'll at least have no hotel bill and no "little britain". But I imagine with a grandbaby coming that won't be soon!

Michael, I've seen a very mature SdlM with hugely thick canes (maybe the climber) that was as tall as I am. I certainly hope 4x4 is a comfortable size for them here.

Sherry

i tell you, this has been a weird and slightly dismal summer here. There is NO sign of a second flush of anything at the moment apart from a few sporadic Zephirine blooms, even after assiduous deadheading. Honestly, instead of August, it seems like October here - cool, wet and grey....where are my crocosmias? even the dahlias are weedy. Thank goodness for penstemons but even so, they do not constitute much of a show on their own. It all started so well back in May.....oh yeah, just to cheer us even more, blight on the way!
Umm, this grandchild thingy - well, I thought i did pretty well not falling on the floor with my head in my hands. For once, diplomacy kicked in and I mumbled something about supporting her absolutely while grinding my teeth.Just to put this in perspective, my oldest child is 33 and I have still not had even a month with all of them away from home. At present, I have youngest son and girlfriend (19, 22) and aforementioned daughter (26) still living at home. No wonder I flee to the garden and whatever made me take on a hellcat,I simply cannot imagine. Even worse, babies just do not float my boat (hang my head in shame but I even found mine a trial) if only they could be born at around 7, housetrained and able to make a cup of tea. Oh dear, perhaps emigration just might be the answer. Mind you, I disliked cats too until I briefly had Loki, but cart this new one (Otto) around like a baby itself, sing to it, kiss it (Yech, I know, disgusting,) so I might have an epiphany....this is uncharted waters for me now.

oops sorry, venting all over the place, course, any advice from other anxious and reluctant grandparents would be REALLY welcome - did you plant a special rose? And I know, get a grip with the cat!

Only advise I have is to be prepared to hear a lot of "Get a grip with the baby!" :)) The tide will turn. Grandbabies are totally different from babies. I have seen more googly-eyed grandparents than I can shake a stick at - male and female. Hold on tight. Being a cat-kisser, there's no doubt you'll be a baby smoocher.

Sherry

I was very worried last year when my 37-year-old daughter expected her third, not a planned baby. She is divorced with two older children, 12 and 10 last year. She did not plan to live with the father who is also divorced and lives with his older daughter in another city. My daughter didn't want to disrupt the lives of her older kids. They live near my husband and me. But everything turned out wonderfully well. The baby is 1 year now, the easiest child I have met, loved by her siblings and her father who comes to see her as often as he can. The relationship is even better than it was before the baby was born, perhaps because they are as much friends and work partners as lovers. The baby girl, our fifth grandchild, is adored by my husband and myself and I think she will be to me what I was to my grandfather, the first grandchild after retirement who had all his love and time. I had much less time for my older grandchildren.

My only worry is that my daughter will move or even settle abroad because of her work. She was working for the WHO in Geneva and Addis Ababa for several years and I know she wants to go out again. I missed her and the grandchildren terribly then. On topic: she didn't get a chance to photograph Rosa abyssinica in flower because her camera was stolen.

I know all about having grownup children living at home. Our son moved back when he had done his military service and didn't yet know what to do with himself, and later in between living with girlfriends. It's not a good situation for either party, you fall back into old patterns. I am glad both my children have their own homes now.

I have had 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' in zone 6 on Cape Cod for 10 years. The first few years it was only a small stick, but it did have a few nice flowers and it doesn't take up much space so I let it do its thing. It is now a small shrub with a few relatively stout canes to 16". Winter can be hard on it, but once the root system gets some bulk to it and the canes get a bit fatter than a pencil, it seems to be fine. It blooms for me the end of June and, at least in my garden, the flowers are welcome and, I think, quite beautiful. If you want to try it in zone 6 you need patience as it will take several years to build up.

Sherry, mine are in groups of three. I have them planted with blue salvia, and I think they are very pretty. I did the same thing with Perle d' Or - three together.

Sammy