Dawn, you could probably grow then in the same bed, they certainly are all in the same bed at Greg's home. My CB and Careless Love are right next to each other. They need company.

Carol

I've never seen Careless Love grow much over three feet (though I'd like to!)
But I have seen old, mature plants of Red Radiance,
budded on Ragged Robin,
growing a good 6 ft. wide and 8-10 ft. tall.
Of course, these plants are easily 80 years old.

I took a cutting in May from one of those, and the cutting is now closing in
on 2.5 ft. tall.

Jeri

Hmm, I think the Careless Love I saw at Vintage was at least four feet, possibly five. But that is a blessed climate. Few of us have such soil or such air.

My own is about three feet, as Jeri describes, and my Red Raidance is a somewhat larger plant. We need to consult LA on Mrs Charles. That is one of her favored roses.

I would venture to say that they could easily grow in the same bed. If it seems likely that Mrs Charles will be a bit smaller, simply put it in the front. I wouldn't put it in a row. In fact, I would not grow any roses in a row unless they are all the same variety, as in a hedge of roses.

Rosefolly

The two Red Radiance I mentioned evidentally once stood on opposite sides of
a concrete pathway.
Now, the pathway plunges into the solid mass of rose, and disappears.
These plants are a terrific illustration of why McFarland was so high on the
whole Radiance clan.

This was taken just PAST the height of the spring flush.
They don't repeat much, because it gets pretty hot out there, and the plants
get no water.

{{gwi:301783}}

There's a Radiance on the same property that I also want to propagate -- along
with all of the roses there we can't ID.
I want all of these roses for myself.

Jeri

Hmm, I think the Careless Love I saw at Vintage was at least four feet, possibly five. But that is a blessed climate. Few of us have such soil or such air.

My own is about three feet, as Jeri describes, and my Red Raidance is a somewhat larger plant. We need to consult LA on Mrs Charles. That is one of her favored roses.

I would venture to say that they could easily grow in the same bed. If it seems likely that Mrs Charles will be a bit smaller, simply put it in the front. I wouldn't put it in a row. In fact, I would not grow any roses in a row unless they are all the same variety, as in a hedge of roses.

Rosefolly

Carol I like your philosophy that they need company-I think so, too.

Good to have Rosefolly and Jeri confirm that Red Radiance at least is probably one of the bigger members of the family, that is helpful.

Jeri, that photo-WOW. I can't even imagine the perfume coming from that bush. Heaven.

Rosefolly, I do remember that Luanne grows Mrs CB, hopefully she'll drop in and share her observations.

I forgot to ask-does this family of roses keep the graceful nodding blooms or do the necks straighten up and grow more upright with maturity? Any comments on how the blooms last when cut, or are they best left on the bush?

Thanks all! Dawn

Dawn, I'd put them at a mid-way point between today's rigidly upright HTs and the
nodding grace of a Tea.

Jeri

We have a Mrs. Charles Bell in the cemetery that has spent much of this summer sporting back to Radiance. For us in Sacramento, it's a nice-sized HT, about four feet high - although it gets pruned pretty regularly by the owner of the plot where it's growing, so I don't know how it would grow if treated less severely. It came to us as 'Radiance,' and I wonder if it first sported to Mrs. CB, and is now sporting back. That would lead me to think there's not much difference in the size and vigor of the two.

At this year's Celebration of Old Roses, some of our volunteers had fun putting all of the sports of Radiance together on the HT table. I think it would be even more fun to grow them all together!
Anita

Oh, Jeri...
That's alot of Red Radiance there!
My RR and PR had been inundated by rampant tomato vines. I whacked the vines back and lo, there they were clean as a whistle, just humming along as if nothing happened.
We buried soaker hoses under the mulching, so watering them is as easy as turning the spigot- voila, no BS!
One day here, I will break down and get another MCB. I had one CL revert, and two other plants, but all perished in my Previously Ponderous Pot Ghetto...
Cemetary,
Radiance will give MCB looking blooms during hot weather- at least she does for me.
albin

Albin,
Our MCB/Radiance was IDd a few years ago in the spring by Phillip and Gregg from Vintage Gardens. When they said it was MCB, all blooms were pale pink. It's been sporting back to Radiance in the heat of the summer. So apparently Radiance can throw out MCB-looking blooms at any time, or vice-versa. I have no idea which one our cemetery plant "really" is, since it started out as a found rose.

We have quite a few roses that sport back and forth. My favorite is how Quatre Saissons Blanc Mousseux sends out unmossed, bright pink Autumn Damask stems, which I always point out when I lead a tour.
Anita

I am reading this with interest....I obtained an ownroot "Careless Love" from Sequoia this past spring and its first several blooms were a very pale pink. I was quite surprised and disappointed because it was my last hopes of getting "Careless Love" before Sequoia closed. The blooms were pretty but not what I ordered and I wondered for some time what my mystery rose was. Then,
lo and behold, the other half of the bush sent out more buds which opened up into those wonderful striped blooms of "Careless Love". It seems as though one side of the bush is going to have the pale pink, unstriped blooms and the other side, the red & white stripes. Very intriguing!
Do you suppose the light, blush-pink blooms are Mrs. Charles Bell? This is definitely ONE plant so I am assuming that it is sporting back on one side of the plant.

Celeste

Celeste -- They probably are MCB.
I have had this rose twice.

A budded plant which I "inherited" in 1970 or so, and an OR plant maybe 15 years ago.
Neither was a strong grower. BOTH sported back to solid pink regularly.
I think that's simply its nature.

I really would love to have a vigorous CL, one day.
The young Red Radiance growing here has enough vigor
for ten roses.
Taken from a cutting just under four months ago, it's now closing on 3 ft
tall, and I keep snapping off little buds.
I wonder if there has EVER been a CL with that kind of vigor.

Jeri

My Mrs. is around 4 feet at about 4 years old. Careless Love about 3-3 and 1/2 and Red Radiance stays around 4 for me. The ones at Vintage were all around 5 feet which is where my own roots came from. They will last about 3 days in the vase so for me they are definitely cuttable if for no other reason than that their fragrance is a blessing on the air and I love that scent in the house.For people whose cut flowers must last a week, this is not for them. I'll tell you a storey. I was out by the walk in late afternoon when my neighbor walked by with a miserable dark look on his face. I said "rough day at work?" He nodded grimly. I plucked an open bloom of Red Radiance and handed it to him with a "smell this." He buried his face in it and came up with a glowing happy face. I said "better?". He continued smiling and said "Gone. All gone". Now that is a rose worth cutting.
la

Love your story, Luanne. That's why we all grow roses, isn't it - they are so good for the soul.
Anita

jeri-thanks for the "stature" info-I'm thinking now Mrs CB might look nice by Mrs Herbert Stevens...

cemeteryrose & celestialrose-perhaps if I could just be patient (doubtful!) I could end up with others in the Radiance clan on my plant of Mrs Charles Bell ;-)

albinnibla-thanks for the testimony to what a hardy gal she is-that is just the kind of rose I want-one that will flourish whatever the conditions.

Luanne-yay I was hoping you'd post here. I would love a Mrs CB that size. And, yes, 3 days in a vase is worth it for me to put in a vase. (I cut one of my baby blooms as an experiment after I posted the initial question and I was surprised how long it lasted.) I also love the story you shared of your neighbor's reaction to Red Radiance. Roses are indeed so good for the soul.

Thanks again everyone, Dawn