Grafting onto unknown rootstock?

11 years ago

Long story short, I live in Florida and our recommended rootstock is Fortuniana. I've found a few roses on fortuniana rootstock, but not many.

Anyhow, my parents have a monstrous "own root" white-flowering climber in their yard. It even looks like the photos of fortuniana I've seen. I do not know what it is. I know my dad took three cuttings from a huge climbing rose and stuck them in the sand at his nematode infested home and one of them survived. Within three years it had spread ten feet. 18 years later the thing is a monster which extends 4 feet off his fence on both sides and down at least 20 feet. It would probably even be longer except he periodically takes a weed wacker to it as their poodle has gotten trapped in it a couple times. Its flowers are white, with perhaps a row or two of petals and a bright yellow center.

Having said all that, I am tempted to try a bit of rooting and grafting. I know I can root these as ten years ago I used to just dip them in rooting compound and put them in pots and most of them rooted just fine without misting or anything like that.

Is there any reason not to try using them for bud grafting? I have a few "still kinda alive" own root roses that have been managing to survive for over a decade despite not really being right for our area. I'm tempted to try to graft them onto that vigorous climber and have them for my own yard.

What other things should I take into consideration? I may just keep hunting for a fortuniana to grow for cuttings, but, in the mean time thought that would be a fun experiment.

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Comments (9)

roseseek
11 years ago
Jennifer, obtaining a Fortuniana isn't that difficult. You can contact Dr. Malcolm Manners at FSU as he's run the program there for years to treat virused roses to clean them of virus. He should be able to provide you with clean Fortuniana so any budding you do won't infect clean varieties. You can also obtain it from UC Davis here in California from Foundation Plant Services. They also index roses to make sure they don't have Rose Mosaic Virus and offer a number of root stocks from their program. What your father has may be Fortuniana, but there is no way to know how clean it is unless you have it tested. It would be faster and easier to make sure of cleanliness to just get it from Dr. Manners or Davis. Kim
jerijen
11 years ago
I agree with Kim.

I also have a monster Fortuniana.
It was collected from an old cemetery, and it's vigorous and healthy -- but I wouldn't bet the farm that it's virus-free.

Judging by its performance here, I think Fortuniana would work well for me as a rootstock, but if I wanted to do that, I would obtain a VI Fortuniana to work with.

Jeri
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i have to start out by saying i am no expert just a hobby gardener. most hybrids are from seedlings and some are from mutations/sports but very few hybrides are the result of grafting. it can happen where they throw off a graft chimera and a new plant will result but again fairly rare. it might be worth a shot to see if they are graft compatable. if they are graft compatable than i would get plants started from each. one blackberry rootstock and one currant than top graft the other to it. than use just those grafted plants to try to get them to cross breed it might not increase the chances of success. there is always arguments on if rootstocks influence any resulting seedlings. my point of view is that they share hormones and chemicals so it might not be a huge influence. but if it increases the chances a tiny fraction that there would be a better chance for the two not very close related plants to be able to produce seeds and than the seeds sprout it would still be more of a chance than it would have had withought the rootstock infuence. and even if you do get a hybrid there is nothing saying it will produce fruit there has been allot of hybrids that where completely sterile never producing any flowers at all. it might be worth a try if you have the time patience and grafting skills.
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jenniferinfl
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you, that led me to a lot more reading. I also came across more fortuniana photos and my dad's rose looks nothing like it. Apparently I ran into one mislabeled photo that looked similar, but any other photo doesn't look like it.
In the meantime I'll see if I can't dig up a photo of my Dad's rose from when it was in bloom to post on the rose identity board.
Edited, found a photo.

I'm hesitant to pester someone as I'm very much a beginner hobbyist at best. But I'll see if I can't get over it and contact Dr. Malcolm Manners as that college is close enough to go visit and I've been meaning to go there to tour the Wright buildings anyways.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:311475}}
thonotorose
11 years ago
Cherokee Rose

Here is a link that might be useful: Cherokee Rose
jaxondel
11 years ago
Jennifer -- How many leaflets make up each leaf on your dad's rose? I can't tell for sure by looking at your photo.
jacqueline9CA
11 years ago
Certainly looks like the Cherokee rose to me, too. Congratulations! What a gorgeous rose. And a real antique (I love it when roses have 10 latin names and innumerable common names) - may even be thousands of years old, as it appears to have originated in China. HMF says it is healthy, too, and loves warm climates.

Jackie
jerijen
11 years ago
In coastal SoCal, I have seen Cherokee Rose repeat, FWIW.

Jeri
jenniferinfl
Original Author
11 years ago
Jaxondel, unfortunately I do not know, I hope to make it over there this weekend anyways and will let you know.

Jackie, it is a great rose, especially for my Dad's yard. There isn't much that can live through his "ignore it all year then trim it with a weed whacker" method of gardening. I don't think I have the space for it in my own yard though unfortunately.

Jerijen, unfortunately I've never really kept track of whether or not it bloomed again. Somewhere around February it is just covered in blooms. I want to say that there have been a few years where's it had a smaller flowering at another point in the year, but nothing to compare with early spring.

I may just try to bud graft my old Queen Elizabeth onto it anyways for some practice before ordering fortuniana. I have a Queen Elizabeth in my parents yard that I bought about 16 years ago. It was just a cheapie rose from Walmart. The first year or two it looked like it was going to die and the other two roses I got with it did die. So, then I dug it up and replanted it with the graft union buried to give it a chance at going own root since by that point I'd learned that the rootstock it was on was doomed to failure here in Florida. 14 years later it's alive and well, planted near a paved sidewalk which probably helps with the nematodes. But, obviously I don't want to dig it up as I find it a miracle that it's still alive here in Florida.
jaxondel
11 years ago
Jennifer, Please do let us know after you get a chance to examine the rose. From a distance, Rosa bracteata (aka 'Macartney Rose' or 'Chickasaw Rose') is a dead ringer for Rosa laevigata (aka 'Cherokee Rose').

Altho R. laevigata is a vigorous rose, R. bracteata is much MORE vigorous and invasive. Because the two roses are so similar, 'Cherokee Rose' has been saddled with a bad reputation in much of the South that is unwarranted. The rampant culprit is its look-alike, 'Macartney Rose'.

Grafting onto unknown rootstock?

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Grafting onto unknown rootstock?

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