Looking for a rose with a bush form like Dutchess de Brabant

16 years ago

There is a spot right by my front door that I am thinking about planting a different rose. I used to have Star Jasmine, which I loved, except it started shooting the tentacle hands and I got tired to cutting them off too often. I replaced with Ronald Reagan (HT) this spring, but the bush form of RR is not beautiful for the front yard.

I am looking for a rose with Dutchess de Brabant's bush form and characteristic. I like the rose to be bushy like DdB with plenty of leaves, because roses grow like ever green in my area and usually do not lose leaves in winter. The bush form of Cramoisi Superieur or Perle d'Or are nice. I am not looking for a rose with a bush form like Mrs. Dudley Cross (not bushy enough), Penelope (cascading form), Mme. Laurette Messimy (too twiggy), nor Marchesa Boccella (too sticky).

I like the rose to grow tall, not wide. Frequency of bloom, fragrance, and health are big plus. Any color is ok. The rose can grow about 4-5ft wide there. No climber please.

Can anyone please suggest a rose for this spot? If you could post a picture, it is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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Comments (11)

iowa_jade
16 years ago
I do not know about your zone but 'Our Lady of Guadalupe' is "Bloody Close" in zone 5a. Not only that, it is healthier and blooms like crazy.

JMHO

Foghorn
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
16 years ago
I also grow Our Lady of Guadalupe but it's too young a plant to make a judgment about growth habit. What about Felicia, an upright hybrid musk with beautiful pink flowers? Souvenir de Pierre Notting is a very floriferous cream to yellow rose that I really liked in my past garden.

Ingrid
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There are two issues with this location. One is that the gravel path and planting area are a total of 8' wide. The bed is maybe 3.5'. I know personally that DdB gets 6' wide and at least 5' tall. The other issue is the filtered sun created by Climbing White Maman Cochet and Reve d'Or who cast a good bit of shade, probably with more to come. They need to be tied up better now, but I would call the area dappled sun at best before too long especially in the bed. Plus it's on the west side of the fence (east side of the house) so the sun gets there maybe by 10am and is gone about 4pm. I can't help but think it's a bad location for this rose unless she likes being espaliered. Would espaliering her be a good idea??? I was just so shocked by the color and quantity of petals on the baby plants. This never happened in the cooler weather of spring because of thrips nor in the summer due to deficient water back then. Her flowers were rarely things of beauty here. But they are now, so if it's some shade she wants I have more and more of it available. I'm also wondering it less sun would keep her smaller (maybe I should say less big). Sherry
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I had never heard the theory that roses live shorter lives in warm climates - interesting. Perhaps they were talking about grafted HTs? (For some reason, I have noticed that some folks in the last 50-60 years said things about "roses" when what they were really talking about were HT roses.) The really old roses I have are chinas or teas (or hybrids thereof like LV), or polyanthas. They are all on their own roots, or at least they are by now. I have never seen a "sucker" on any of them. Maybe they are closer genetically to the roses that are native to warm climates than whatever ones that theory applies to, and so of course they are happier in warm climates. Just guessing... Re shedding leaves, I have not paid much attention, but I have the vague idea that the old beat up leaves do fall off as the new growth emerges, whether that is in the Fall/Winter or especially the Spring. When I said 12 month growing season I did not mean to imply that the roses bloom as much in the Winter, it's just that they never altogether stop (I can remember one winter 20 years ago when they did stop - it was below 20 degrees F here for 2 weeks, day and night, without stopping. Lost several plants, but none of the roses, even the chinas or teas.) I love discovering rose "conventional wisdom" that turns out to be wrong-does anyone remember a source for the "roses do not live as long in warm climates" theory? Jackie
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What I've noticed with own-root roses is that what you see upon arrival will continue to grow as if it was still back on the mother rose before the propagator snipped it for rooting. So since this usually means a terminal branch was used for propagation, growth from it will continue as though it was a terminal branch. But in the meantime, it's feeding the roots. And when the roots get enough food to generate a new shoot, that new shoot will be more like what you'll see on the mature rose. And, as Jeri said, don't worry about planting an own-root rose too deeply. When I started my garden, I planted them in the native soil, then built raised beds around them. The result was that 6-8" of cane was buried. After a year or so, I started seeing roots being generated along these canes just a few inches below the raised surface. Roses aren't like many other shrubs or trees in that they will adjust to being planted deeply -- by generating roots further up. At this point, fiddling with it may cause more harm than good. Just maintain whatever depth you have. I know others say not to keep mulch at the bases of roses because this will invite disease, but I don't think this is the same thing as burying canes in soil permanently. Mulch will certainly keep things moist, but perhaps isn't "soil-like enough" for roots to form. Here, roots formed on the buried portions of cane only after I added composted manure and used coffee grounds to the mulch layer, in effect creating a "mulch" of soil-like compost with the texture of potting soil. :-) ~Christopher
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I had similar question about my Duchesse de Brabant earlier this year. The buds looked similar to yours, though they were larger, but they wouldn't open. I thought it was botrytis, but the advice I got was that it was balling because the buds were not slimy or moldy. If yours are not slimy then it's balling and I was advised like you here just to remove the buds. All is fine now and new buds are already starting to form. Hope this helps.
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patricianat
16 years ago
Madame Joseph Schwarz.
Molineux
16 years ago
I second Patricia. Madame Josesph Schwartz, the white sport of Duchesse de Brabant.
buford
16 years ago
Maybe I'm dense but why not just plant the Duchess?
malmason
Original Author
16 years ago
Good morning,

Thank you very much for your suggestions. In my backyard, I already have DdB and MJS, and that is the reason I would like to avoid planting them even they are such fine roses. Especially DdB added to Earthkind Roses this year.

I heard so much good things about Our Lady of Guadalupe, but somehow has not checked about yet. Felicia would be a very good choice too. I need to go to find some pictures and read about them.

Thank you!
duchesse_nalabama
16 years ago
I have a Spice, which is a China, which is very bushy. It will get large, not sure if it will exceed the 4 feet width limit you have. Mine is only a year but I enjoy looking at it every morning because it's so healthy and is in constant bloom. The blossoms are not large, but there are so many of them. It has that peppery fragrance, which is growing on me. You might like this one.

Another thought is Quietness, one of the Bucks roses. It is not a tea, but I think is a wonderful rose. Mine is very healthy and shrubby with beautiful pink blossoms and gets about 5 feet, I think. Lots of blooms. I hope you find what you're looking for! Annie

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gnabonnand
16 years ago
Annie, your "Spice" is beautiful. That rose has the best foliage of any in my garden right now. Mine seems to be almost thornless, which was a nice surprise for me. What about yours?

Randy
duchesse_nalabama
16 years ago
Thank you, Randy. I really like this rose. Not a prima donna, just a steady grower and bloom producer. And I like the contrast of the smaller blooms with some its neighbor's larger blossoms. Mine also has few prickles.

I have used chemicals very little this summer and most of my roses are mostly without black spot. I guess it's the heat - it's been so hot, I think I'm back in Dallas again! I've read about your monsoon summer - and we're more than 20 inches below normal rainfall.
miamibarb1
16 years ago
Check out the Vintage rose website. They have characterized tea roses into three different growing styles. They list the Duchesse de Brabant as "style 2"--"the classic tea." It might help you find a bush that grows how you want.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage Rose Teas
terryisthinking
16 years ago
I would put R. moschata by my front door. It blooms all summer and smells so intensely.

Looking for a rose with a bush form like Dutchess de Brabant

Comments (11)

iowa_jade

ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

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Looking for a rose with a bush form like Dutchess de Brabant

Comments (11)

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