Very nice selection! Last year I ordered several HTs from Vintage, including my favorite Dot roses, and also 'Sunrise', which is a climber. I'm also in Zone 5 in the Midwest, and I don't winter protect at all...they just get oak mulch and some leaves that blow in. 'Sunrise' and all the Vintage gang survived very well, and we had temps well below zero.

I did get the bands in the Spring, however. I've never planted bands in the Fall because I don't think they'd have enough time to get established before Winter hits. And I also did plant the bands directly into the ground and they took off just fine...the Vintage bands I received were outstanding in size and very healthy. I just adore their roses and their selection!

Good luck with your new roses!

My experience with older, own-root HTs is that even in a pot, they won't perform. And even at that, Ophelia has an eastern reputation as being tender. HPs aren't much better.

It's your money, but I can think of many, many better ways to spend it.

terryjean, I can have Dot roses in zone 5? Wow, I thought I would have to give those up altogether.

mad gallica, thank you for the caution. I plan to keep my new babies in pots, transplanted from the bands, on the back porch till next spring. I am also researching winter protection. The advise to not prune before winter seems a bit counter intuitive.

Understand that an unheated porch isn't going to be any warmer than outside. So when it is -15°F outside, it is going to be -15°F on the porch. The standard place to keep potted roses, particularly tender ones, is an attached, unheated garage. It gets heat loss from the house, which keeps it warmer than outside. It can be too warm, but it tends to be the best available.

The usual winter protection, the 'Magic Mound' isn't really recommended in the east. Here, it actively damages roses. In western Pennsylvania, it just seem to have absolutely no effect.

If you are serious about growing bands, and it seems like you are, I'd strongly recommending learning to root roses, so you have a lot of cheap guinea pigs to experiment on. It does help to have multiples of the same variety to see how it reacts to different conditions. There are a lot of things about growing marginal roses in the northeast that differ from the common wisdom in the rest of the country.

Are in you eastern or western New York? I'm in Dutchess Co, but my family is from near Olean.

Generally, in z5 you normally only shorten very long canes for the winter, so you do not have to winter protect them to the very top. Otherwise, it is not smart to cut the canes down, because you usually get some die back from temperature fluctuations and if you cut too low, whole cane will be gonners and the whole rose with it.

I don't think you can have success with Ophelia in z5 without winter protection, in a mild winter maybe you will get die back to the snow line only, but otherwise unfortunately that's one of the pretty roses that cannot be grown there outside the greenhouse. The others I am not familiar with (Ophelia my godfathers family grew in greenhouse for cut flowers in z5, we tried it in the garden and it did not survive).

Also, regarding pots, I hope that the temperatures in your porch stay higher, since otherwise often it is more wise to plant a plant in the ground and hope for proper snow cover. Another method is to actually place pots in the lower side of the garden or a ditch, so they would get hidden under blown leaves and snow.

Generally though my experience in z5 with the roses was that anything planted in the autumn rarely made it (except roses that are hardy in z4 and lower), unless we had very long and fair autumn and plenty of snow cover in the winter. If I had to do it again in z5, I would seriously consider either greenhouse, either not bothering with HTs at all, except what comes as a very hardy series (like the Canadian explorer ones).

The Hybrid Tea garden in front of my house has 80 roses in it, all HTs (with a couple of transitional HPs), dating mostly from before WWII ... and ALL of them are growing on their own roots. Many came from Vintage as bands. Some of them are more vigorous than others, but they all do fine.

My conclusion about this is that there was no consideration given in the selection process when these roses were hybridized as to whether they would produce a vigorous root system. Roses were budded ... period. That was just the way it was. Own-root roses then were the old-fashioned kind, which fell out of favor, a lot like now. For us, the pendulum has swung a bit toward the benefits of own-root roses.

Congratulations on your selections. Of the ones you chose I have Georgetown, and the bush form of Snowbird (which is LOVELY).

Connie

I grow over 300 roses; the majority being own-root HTs and floribundas. Our winters here can be brutal with lows sometimes -22F which is abnormal but it does happen, but most likely getting to lows of -10F.

I have only planted bands in the Spring, and those went directly into the ground, so they had months to establish before Winter hits. I quit fertilizing and deadheading here in August, so the roses can slow down before the first hard freeze, which can happen in October.

I also do not prune before winter; it's counterproductive since most of the roses are not cane hardy and will need lots of pruning come Spring.

And yes, I do have a couple of Dot roses. They have made it through last winter just fine here, and it got down to -10F for a few days. I'd like to add more to my collection from Vintage as they become available. 'Condesa de Sastago' has done very well in both bloom and vigor. Even the Delbards have proven hardy here...Camille Pisarro and Henri Matisse which are own-root do very well.

I grow only a few HTs. Some of them are indeed weak growers on their own roots and have disappointed me. However others do very well. I can specifically mention Red Radiance, Careless Love, and Oklahoma as HTs that are quite vigorous when grown own root in my garden. I have never grown either of the two climbing HTs you ordered, so I can't tell you how they will do. It sounds as though you have put a lot of thought into siting them, and I wish you all the best luck in your experiment.

Let us know how you like Georgetown HP. It's one I've eyed myself from time to time. I really don't have room for more roses (except for two or three on a list I've made in my mind), but if I did, this is one I might try. All the HPs I grow are own root, so I think yours will be fine.

Rosefolly

Based on past experiences gardening in eastern NY and cental VT, I have to agree whole-heartedly with mad gallica's observations regarding HPs and early HTs. Winters there appear to be milder than they once were, so perhaps things have changed. For your sake, nastarana, I hope they have.

I thank everyone for the thoughtful and helpful responses.

The back porch is an enclosed porch, really a small, unheated room behind the kitchen, with a wood floor about a foot above the ground--no placing of pots on bare concrete. If necessary, I can even bring pots into the kitchen itself. It is a huge kitchen. I planned to transplant banded plants into larger pots, which I would overwinter on the above mentioned porch.

I have had some success with propagating already, although I cannot claim to be in any way expert at the practice.

One of the HPs I ordered, Kern's White HP if memory is correct, was described as hardy, and the others were described as being similar to Portland roses. I may indeed have made an unwarranted assumption that Portland like growth habit implied an equal hardiness. I do know that HPs are successfully grown in NYC. I have noticed that city gardens seem to be about, I would say, half a zone or thereabouts, warmer than those in the country.

If Ophelia needs a greenhouse, I shall simply have to provide her with one; I need to have some sort of green or hoop house for winter vegetables. Roses bushes amongst the veges? Makes perfect sense to me!

Manhattan is at least zone 7. The rest of the city can be assumed to be zone 7. Lower Westchester is 6B. Totally and completely different places than zone 5.

Some Portlands are hardy. Some aren't. Rose de Rescht, for example, isn't really cane hardy here.

If the porch doesn't have an insulated floor, it's going to be much, much colder than the cement floor of a typical garage. Those are very well insulated by the ground mass underneath them.

Potted roses can come inside during short, extreme temperature snaps. However, if they are kept inside too long, they break dormancy and then light availability becomes an issue.

I personally have trouble overwintering in the garage pots smaller than two gallons. Mostly because I do tend to ignore them and they probably dry out too much. However, I put the smaller ones in an inused refrigerator so they are significantly buffered from temperature swings, and probably do stay noticably warmer than the larger pots sitting out in the garage.

It really is helpful to pick up a min/max thermometer and keep it in the storage space. Then you have real temperatures to go by.

If you plan to have some sort of greenhouse, it probably is the best place for overwintering or tender plants, but that's only true if it is a big glass one, also a heated one (otherwise it is hardly any warmer than the outside, as well as the lack of snow cover makes it about even with outside). If you plan on staying in z5 though and can afford it, it really extends what you can or cannot grow in z5. :)

Around here it is also popular thing for the exotic tropical plans - they add some sort of extension to the back of the house, with double glass walls and roof, and enjoy their palms, oranges and whatever else they put in that winter garden.

Mad Gallica, Thank you for the helpful comments. I live at this time in Oneida Cnty., in town, not the country, where, I agree, the plants I ordered would not have a chance.

When I drove out here from CA, alone, not bad for being 60yrs old if I do say so myself, I came across NY on hwy 86, just north of the Penn border. I hope to buy a house and some land eventually, and I thought the upper Alleghany and Schullkyl Valleys were very beautiful and comparatively unspoiled--reminded me of the Willamette Valley in OR, though colder, before the developers moved in. Might that area be a tad warmer than Oneida Cty.?

The upper Allegany is very cold. McKean Co. is the icebox of Pennsylvania. There used to be somebody on the main rose forum who moved from Cleveland to somewhere around Kinzua Dam. He had a much steeper learning curve than expected, and I believe ended up overwintering HTs in a heated storage shed.

It really does depend on what you are interested in. We (my DH and I) have noticed what we call the 'HT line'. It's somewhere slightly south of the 6a/6b border, and is a remarkably sharp distinction between places where HTs can thrive with proper care and places where they struggle. Life is much, much easier if you accept the roses of the region.

Dear Mad Gallica, I appreciate your words of caution, and odds are, you will be proved correct on every point and I will be washing a large amount of egg off my face.

However, it is a part of my perverse character that when someone, with the best intentions in the world, tells me I can't do something, I immediately start trying to figure out ways I can.

I do believe that a greenhouse, or hoophouse, will pay for itself, and I would think that a few potted roses could be placed amongst the vegetables.

I really like Cl. Snowbird and Ophelia, though I'm not acquainted with the others you ordered.

I hope all the plants do well, in spite of your challenges.

nastarana, did you ever garden in the cold climate? I am just curious, since it is quite different from what it feels like for example in my current z8. One thing that you should pay attention to are zone letters, a and b, because that makes a HUGE difference in cold climate gardening, since usually problem is not only cold, but also moisture in the winter, sun and wind can be as bad as low temperatures.

I suppose it really depends on what you want with your garden. Winter gardens and orangeries are not a new thing in cold climates, it was doable in centuries past, I am sure it can be done now, with so much better building materials when it comes to isolation. That would enable you to grow many more roses, but it is a garden in a closed environment, doesn't feel like you are outside. When it comes to the outside garden, no matter what, nature has her final say in it, which means that sooner or later you will learn that the main criteria of selecting your rose purchases is winter hardness. HTs may even not freeze that particular winter, but they will come back very weak and will eventually succumb to the elements. There are however a few hybrids that were hardy even in my z5 (z4 in a bad winter) and I am certain that there are more possibilities now, with online shopping and all.

You can of course grow pretty HTs as annual plants, enjoy the summer bloom and don't worry about them freezing out in the winter. My mother usually buys a few potted greenhouse roses in the spring, places them on their balcony, enjoys them through the summer and just throws them out during the spring clean up.

Yes, I have gardened in very cold Eastern Oregon, but not ornamentals. I remember growing kale under 2 feet of snow. The kale was the very hardy, curled kind.

Right now I have planted 8 albas, two Portlands, two arvensis hybrids, and both rugosa species, the pink and the white, and New Dawn.

Also three climbers at the foot of the south facing wall I mentioned above, White Cockade, Lawinia, and a white climber from Japan, I can't remember the name. Lawinia should be hardy. The other two I thought I might lay down in trenches for the winter. Also in a pot Marie Dermar, which I intend to keep potted, and bring inside in winter. I will have access to a large quantity of autumn leaves, which I intend to pile around all roses. We do get lot of "lake-effect" snow, being about 70 mi. away from Lake Ontario, and the soil and air here are very moist. No chance of any plant drying out.

I take your point about differences within zones. There may indeed be a reason I don't yet know about why the Midwest cold zone rose growers seem to be able to have Dot HTs.

The reason is simple - moisture. If you are half as wet as you say, winter protection is going to be a big no-no. Unless you freeze and stay frozen, and I don't think you are cold enough for that, every time it gets above freezing, the roses and everything else out there is going to take a cold bath. That's a very difficult condition for plants to survive. It's why we spend a fair amount of time talking about garages. Not only are they warmer than outside, but they are much, much drier.

I'm interested in your experience with Lawinia. I was looking at climbers several years ago, and thought it was much too chancy for what I wanted.

nastarana, if you are inherently contrarian you'll want to pay attention to Celeste's posts when she does them. She gardens in Vermont, so not exactly the same climate, but she also has a bit of a contrarian streak, I think.

There are actually quite a few roses besides Albas that can do fairly well in such climates, the old rose nursery in my parents z4-5 area sells quite some bourbons, damasks, mosses and HPs, as well as some Austins and moderns - and they grow them outside, in the fields.

As for Lawinia, I would say it may be sensitive to freezing-unfreezing in the winter - considering that it killed her here, in z8. x) It was a bit of bad luck with it for me really, since that rose order arrived just a week before some cold front hit (-1-5 C) and probably not entirely dormant anymore after spending some time in warm buildings. Lawinia was the only HT in that order, and she died pretty much instantly when the cold front arrived, the rest did not enjoy it, but survived (including Eden, although I had some die back on him).

Some roses break dormancy faster than others and cold climate OGRs at least for me always take much longer to leaf out than HTs, which makes them easier to grow with unstable winter temps.

Elmire, are we talking about the same rose? Lawinia which I bought last spring from Eurodesert Roses is a large flowered climber from Tantau. Maybe it has HT parantage? I really thought I was safe with roses from Kordes or Tantau. I do love Tantau's beautifully colored roses. Lawinia has produced one bloom, not disappointing for a climber its first year, of great beauty. Medium pink, but not a boring, scentimental pink at all. Do you know, in what part of Germany is the Tantau business located, and what is the climate like there?

I am excessively fond of alba roses, and would like to grow all of them.

With albas, you have to watch disease resistance. The majority will blackspot.

In general, Kordes and Tantau shrubs are reliable through zone 6. That's what they have to be for their home market. There are enormous groups of roses that have earned the reputation of being hardy because they are hardier than HTs. However, that only means they are hardy in zone 6, and colder than that they aren't better than anything else.

Nastarana, yeah, the same Tantau Lavinia, I was also surprised that it got it that badly and completely. Maybe being a bit older of their roses it had too much of greenhouse HT blood in it, but in general buying roses in autumn even in my climate can be tricky, especially if they do not manage to get properly dormant after postage before cold hits. Growers in my parents z5 suggest trying Laguna, apparently being a bit more new generation of Kordes roses it is better for the open garden.

If I am not mistaken, both Kordes and Tantau are located close to Hamburg, that would make it somewhere around z8b I think, with quite cool summers. It is pretty rainy and windy place, since mostly they get weather from North Sea and Atlantic, but winters are mild, maybe as low as -5C, due to the warm Golf stream waters in the North Sea. Generally, German winters get nastier further east from more or less Berlin, Hamburg is still more or less like UK climate.