Leaf variation among Nuttall oaks

9 years ago

The two trees in the picture were both labeled Nuttall oaks at the nursery but the leaves look quite a bit different from each other. The one on the right looks like the Nuttall descriptions online but the one on the left has fewer bristles, shallower lobes, and a lighter green color. The bark does look the same though. Is this normal genetic variation among Nuttalls? Or is it likely that one of them is mislabeled or a hybrid species?

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (6)

hairmetal4ever
9 years ago
Is one in a shadier spot?

Oaks often produce leaves in shade that are more shallowly lobed than in full sun. Also, seedling oaks often have leaves that look somewhat different than adult trees would.

Although the shape of the left side isn't "classic" Nuttall Oak, I have seen them look like that, and the reddish new growth is also typical of Nuttall (and others, to be fair, but esp. Nuttall).
poaky1
9 years ago
What hairmetal said, the left one is that a baby? It could be a hybrid also, but, I would wait til it gets bigger.
I must admit the left one looks like Q. Rubra or Q. Velutina also. But I must admit oak leaves confuse me when the aren't exactly as the field guides depict.
Related Discussions
spots on scarlet oak leaves
Q
Comments (13)
Hair, Individual genetic variation. If some mineral is marginal, then some will show signs, others will not. Just as you have variation in growth, fall color, etc. Plus there may be some microbial factor (i.e. mycorrhizae), or tiny micro-climate difference. Two genetically identical twins can have significantly different microbial communities despite living in a near identical environment. Sometimes it just happens. Jackie, Nice looking trees. I grow various species and give them away. I do it because I want to do so. I try two or three species each year, usually something I have not tried before. I get to experience other species this way that I would not have room for, and get to make sure people I know plant something other than crap callery pears. I have also given several away in honor of new kids, house warming, and weddings. These usually go over very well, and serve as a reminder. New infant trees to grow up with new infant children especially so. Arktrees
...See More
What oak trees have the best and worst Fall Foliage?
Q
Comments (21)
"Huggorm, do you mean Chestnut oak? I've been told that the Prinus has been changed to Q. Montana, but I guess we know what you mean. I am surprised if the chestnut oak turns red, but I guess each tree is an individual." Yes, thatÃÂ´s the one. Those are first years seedlings though, grown in pots and planted out only a few weeks ago. I guess they wont get that red next year.
...See More
Sawtooth Oak Growth Examples
Q
Comments (39)
I've read that they don't live long, it was in an article of a hunter whose dad planted them to lure game. I cut mine down, I'm not a hunter and had heard many negatives about it as a landscape tree. It would've been bad where I had it. If you have a good bit of room in full sun, well drained soil, try Quercus Prinus ( also called Quercus Montana )Chestnut oak mine is 7-8 years old and full of acorns. With good moisture and full sun mine has grown really fast, in spite of it said to be a slow grower. I know there are drought conditions now in Texas but it is drought tolerant after it gets established. If you can water till then. Hopefully the drought will stop soon. Then again if you have beavers your soil may not always be well drained. If you browse on Oikos tree crops and Mossy oak natives nursery websites you may see something worth trying, they have some they've bred for early yeilds.
...See More
Oak Tree Color
Q
Comments (29)
Spruce, et. al. As many of you know, I am new to this area, am learning and have many questions. Question: Is fall leaf color in seedlings fairly consistent as the tree matures? This spring, I planted seedlings of Swamp chestnut oak (Q. michauxii), Nuttall oak (Q. nuttalli), Cherrybark oak (Q. falcata v. pagodafolia), and southern red oak (Q. falcata). The SCO seedlings leafed out first, and turned first - the leaves were mostly orange, turning to tan-gold-buff. The cherrybark leaves are an intense wine red, the Nuttall leaves are a brilliant scarlet red. Today, the leaves on some red oaks are mainly or completely green. Despite a minor hurricane, a long nor-easter, and a drought this summer, leaves remain on all the seedlings, but are beginning to fall now. I recall a discussion about leaf shape, that it can be difficult to ID a young oak because leaves on a seedling can vary in shape. I think the discussion involved acorns Sherry planted last fall. She collected acorns from many locations and was trying to ID the seedlings. This led me to wonder if leaf color is similar to leaf shape - variable in seedlings, becoming more consistent with age, i.e., if Nutall oak seedlings are bright red now, as youngsters, is it reasonable to expect them to be bright red in adolescence or adulthood? I know leaf color differs from year to year due to environmental factors. Last year, despite a drought, we had spectacular color. This year, the wind from the hurricane and nor'easter blew leaves off many trees and left others in shreds. Despite these factors, I'd rank fall color this year as B+ (in the leaves that remained).
...See More
mosquitogang201
Original Author
9 years ago
The one on the left is actually older. It had been headed back several times in the nursery (to keep the size down I guess) so will take a bit of pruning to get back to a good leader. Not sure if it was kept in the shade or not but it is in full sun now so we can see if it looks different next spring.
mosquitogang201
Original Author
9 years ago
Here's a follow-up in case anyone is curious. The late season growth between both trees looks very similar. Perhaps it was a case of different conditions in the nursery after all.
poaky1
9 years ago
Mosquitogang, It's great that you have a real answer to your question. Oaks are sometimes very hard to figure out when it comes to leaf shape. I ordered an oak online which showed the leaf shape of the adult tree. Quercus Sinuata, from Mossy oak natives nursery. It is also called Durand oak or Bast**d white oak. The tree online had lobes, but the tree I received and planted had no lobes, and had Willow oak shaped leaves, which stayed on the tree in the winter of 2012-2013, which was a milder winter than the last one, 2013-2014. Well, anyway, I have a Nuttall's oak that has (usually) nice bright red leaves for fall, and once shed, the spring leaves are nice and bright red for a while etc. The other Nuttall's oaks I have don't have as showy leaves as this particular tree. But really, I must admit this year this usually showy Nuttall's oak hasn't been too showy, likely not enough of a cold snap at the right time or who knows the reason?
lucky_p
9 years ago
Grew out some Nutall seedlings from acorns this year - several would easily have passed - at least early on - for Q.nigra seedlings - and I even considered the possibility that they could be hybrids of the two species, but as subsequent flushes of leaves came on, they began to resemble, more and more, Q.nutalli.

Leaf variation among Nuttall oaks

Comments (6)

hairmetal4ever

poaky1

Related Discussions

mosquitogang201
Original Author

mosquitogang201
Original Author

poaky1

lucky_p

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Leaf variation among Nuttall oaks

Comments (6)

hairmetal4ever

poaky1

Related Discussions

mosquitogang201Original Author

mosquitogang201Original Author

poaky1

lucky_p

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

mosquitogang201
Original Author

mosquitogang201
Original Author