Flopping flowers = nutrient deficiency?

14 years ago

Yes, I know, everyone says some flowers just flop.

But somehow, I think there may be more to it than that.

I grew tall hollyhocks from seed in Las Vegas, NV (highly alkaline soil), and not one flopped, none had to be staked.

I grew tall hollyhocks from seed here in Washington State (quite acid soil), and they always flop.

I planted four Coral Reef Oriental Poppies in my back yard, and they flopped. I dug them up and moved them to the side yard beside the driveway, and they don't flop at all. I left some of the tap roots behind when I dug them up and ended up with four more plants in the back yard. CLONED plants, and they still flopped.

Nutrient problems in the soil cause commercial grain crops to fall over ('lodge'), so why not perennials? But I can't find any info on it.

Any info? Any theories? Guesses?

Sue

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

christinmk z5b eastern WA
14 years ago
Oriental Poppies prefer it dry. The more love you give them the worse they perform.

I don't really think the flopping plant issue is due to nutrients or the pH, but moisture and drainage.

My hollyhocks seem to do best (ie. stand upright, and get robust) in an area that does have moist soil, but that also drains nicely. Sandy soil helps with this. One year a hollyhock seeded itself in a part shade garden and it grew to nearly 15ft tall. Didn't even flop, lol. I do have some leaners, but they are in really droughty areas.

You could try moving your hollyhocks to an area that is a bit more dry, I think that might help a little.
Happy Gardening!
CMK
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
if you cant tell the difference in the amount of sun between las vegas.. and WA .... well i dont know..

not only is vegas closer to the equater.. meaning more intense sun .. but is WA in a rain cloud for half of summer ...

in my experience.. floppage is a function of to much fert.. or the wrong formula...

or improper light..

soil chemistry is irrelevant ... but for severe problems.. which do not start at flopping ..

good luck

ken

ps: i suppose you will tell me you are in the dry sunny side of WA... lol

PS: grandma.. in ghetto detroit in teh 20's .. 30's thru the 70's .. grew them in the cinder garbage alley with no TLC ... and no human interventions ... which i would take to mean.. they do NOT like TLC ... most likely.. your soil is TOO GOOD ... go figure
Related Discussions
Plant Nutrient Deficiencies. This will help you!
Q
Comments (8)
Mike, good idea to post symptoms here, but since it is a citrus forum, I should point out that in many cases, the symptoms you've listed don't occur on citrus, and that the actual symptoms on citrus are quite different from those listed. For example: Calcium -- seldom visible symptoms on citrus Magnesium -- never symptoms on new growth of citrus; old growth shows a characteristic "inverted V" of green at the base of the leaf and yellow-orange above. Phosphorus -- I've never seen a citrus tree exhibit the purpling of leaves; rather, reduced fruit size and yield is most common. Boron -- in citrus, shows up as dead, sunken, gray or brown areas in the albedo (white part) of the fruit peel. Usually no other symptoms. Copper -- Growth may be unusually vigorous, producing huge, deep blue-green leaves, but the stems are too weak to support the weight, so they bow unusually, giving what is known as an "S" shape to the limb. Also, such limbs develop blisters on the epidermis which swell, then burst open, and ooze a sticky sap. Then in areas of the world that have fire ants (e.g., Florida), the ants are attracted to the sap, and they chew away the epidermis, killing the twigs entirely. Manganese -- at least in Florida, even a fairly severe deficiency generally has no effect on yield. Molybdenum -- older leaves are green with large (up to 1/4") yellow spots, like large freckles.
...See More
clematis nutrient deficiency?
Q
Comments (4)
Would it be possible to add more information about growing conditions (soil, sun, water, competing plants, possible chemical/herbicide exposure and general region where you are growing - what part of Oz) and to add a photo of the plant in the garden? Also, has this leaf thing been an issue for all the time it has been in your garden or is it a recent occurence? Ignoring the leaves for now, generally in my garden most clematis tend to not put on very much top growth or bloom much until their third year. More than many plants, clematis seem to need to take time to settle in and grow roots. So the above-ground size alone isn't worth worrying about.
...See More
Sort off off topic - help with possible nutrient deficiencies
Q
Comments (12)
My plumaria expert says that blossom booster or anything with such a high middle number is useless. In fact some of the threads by Al will agree. I use "Dynamite" 13 13 13...Even numbers right across the board. In fact most plants don't like such a high middle number, because your throwing the abilty off for the whole plant to be healthy, even the colors of the leaves by forcing flowers on your plants when you don't have to. How come plumies flower from the ground outdoors withou someone throwing so much middle number on them? In the ground, they are getting an even amount of nutriets to sustain over look, vigour, and health. I will send you an excert of why the middle number is useless. The "dynamite" has worked wonders for me. It is slow release along with micro nutrients and a well balanced fert. Just some excerts... "Whatever nutrients are available in excess, will be absorbed by the plant to a certain degree, and in some cases, this may lead to toxicity or even symptoms of shortages of other nutrients as toxicity levels block a plant's ability to take up other nutrients. Too much nitrogen will lead to excessive foliage production and less flowering. Too much potassium or phosphorus will not lead to ill effect, but will show up as a deficiency of other nutrients as it blocks uptake". "What about the "Bloom Booster" fertilizers you might ask? To induce more prolific flowering, a reduced N supply will have more and better effect than the high P bloom formulas. When N is reduced, it slows vegetative growth without reducing photosynthesis. Since vegetative growth is limited by a lack of N, and the photosynthetic machinery continues to turn out food, it leaves an expendable surplus for the plant to spend on flowers and fruit". "The fact that different species of plants grow in different types of soil where they are naturally found, does not mean that one needs more of a certain nutrient than the other. It just means that the plants have developed strategies to adapt to certain conditions, like excesses and deficiencies of particular nutrients.." "Most greenhouse operations will follow pretty closely to a 2-1-2 ratio of the primary macro-nutrients on most greenhouse crops with minor deviations based on tissue analysis and the effect of the growing medium. Most post-greenhouse fertilization will follow fairly closely to a 3-1-2 ratio, with some deviation. Again, this very closely mimics the range of the primary macros found in plant tissues". Read the thread......type in search.... "Fertilizer Program - Containerized Plants (Long Post) very imformative article". I never use blosson booster, and all my plants flower Profusely.... Hope this helps and greens up the leaves along with giving you nice flowers next time around..:-) Mike
...See More
Potted Key Lime Tree - Nutrient Deficiency?
Q
Comments (7)
You can use the same 24-8-16 on the leaves as well as roots. This can be used on all your citrus tree. I use Miracle-Gro® and Miracid® brand. I can find it at the store very easily and it is very inexpensive. Others use Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 It is more complete than what I use but much more expensive. Some loss of leaves after bringing the tree in is normal. Your tree looks really good. If you haven't bought the Miragle-gro cactus mix don't. If you have and can't take it back I would suggest adding 3 parts pine fines to 1 part cactus mix. 5 parts pine fines, 1 part compost, 1 part perlite. I can't help with the black spots. I have no experience there
...See More
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
14 years ago
Flopping is usually the result of excessively rich soil rather than a nutrient poor soil. Leaner, drier soils with good drainage generally encourage stockier plants with less inclination to legginess or flopping. Sun/shade also plays a factor.

Ken, have you ever spent much time out here in Washington? The climate may surprise you.........most folks unfamiliar with it think it is cloudy and damp most of the time. We actually get far less total rainfall than many other areas of the country, including probably your location:-) And we have recurrent summer droughts throughout much of western WA and eastern WA is as sunny, hot and dry as any part of the midwest.......very likely drier than most!
Belgianpup
Original Author
14 years ago
My soil is deficient in nitrogen, it is sandy and drains well.

I mostly ignored the Oriental poppies in both places, both were in full sun, one flopped, the other didn't.

My hollyhocks flop, but there's a house about a mile from home whose hollyhocks don't flow. I even pulled into their driveway to see if they were staked.

W. WA mostly has summer droughts with no or very little rain.

Well, thanks for all your answers. I think I will sow more hollyhocks this fall, and plant them out in spring in some 'specially' prepared beds with certain different nutrients and see what happens... added lime, added phosphorus, added potassium, etc.

Oh, I just remembered... you know how everyone says the tall delphiniums need staking? There were some at Caesar's Palace in Vegas that were ramrod straight without staking, the only ones I'd ever seen that weren't.

Sue
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
Ken, have you ever spent much time out here in Washington?

===========

not a single moment of my life .... and that is why i TRY to qualify my statements with ... IN MY ZONE 5 ...

i TRY to list variables ... and let peeps more familiar with specific locals.. to chime in ...

i do seem to have one brain cell ... that tells me there are two side to PNW .... depending which side of the mountains you are on.. perhaps knowledge gleaned by my attempts to grow doug firs IN MY ZONE 5 ... there are two types .... depending on the mountain ranges ... yes???

but we digress ... ken
morz8 - Washington Coast
14 years ago
Sue, there has been a series of 'stakeless' delphs around for a while now. Joy Creek (Scappoose) has them in their display gardens and offers them as English Hybrids - I'm not entirely sure I'd trust them in my coastal (often windy) site but they may live up to their description in a more protected location.
jean001
14 years ago
The English Hybrid delphiniums work well for me without stakes.

When I first obtained them some years ago, they were simply named by color -- as in red (not really), white, or blue (dark or light).

But since then, named selections are have been made available.

They're definitely worth growing, even if only named by color. You can do your own selections after you see them bloom.

Flopping flowers = nutrient deficiency?

Comments (7)

christinmk z5b eastern WA

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Related Discussions

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Belgianpup
Original Author

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

morz8 - Washington Coast

jean001

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Flopping flowers = nutrient deficiency?

Comments (7)

christinmk z5b eastern WA

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Related Discussions

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

BelgianpupOriginal Author

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

morz8 - Washington Coast

jean001

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Belgianpup
Original Author