Just to clarify - the clay is not slow draining. I have tested using various holes in the garden and the water drains within a few minutes. So they will not be in standing water. However, the clay stays moist for a very long time.

Peat is very nasty stuff to deal with as a soil amendment, IME. It holds water too well when wet, then takes forever to rewet if it dries out. Compost and composted manure are much better soil amendments.

The biggest variable in how well things overwinter seems to be the winter itself. I'd expect most things to over winter fairly well, so long as you don't coddle them, but every now and then a killer winter shows up that breaks the curve. Cold and snowy is OK, cold and open isn't, and that is hard to predict.

The dog damaged plants should be fine. Just hope the dogs weren't chasing a vole. Those will do a lot more damage than any canine.

Peat is very nasty stuff to deal with as a soil amendment,

I feel similarly and yet it isn't easy buying a 'quality' bag of soil that doesn't contain peat.

I would not amend moisture-retentive clay soil with moisture-retentive peat moss. Compost, on the other hand, is clay soil's best friend. In winter, one of the biggest causes of perennial losses is soggy soil. As long as it drains well, you should be fine with clay.

The dog damage will depend on how badly the crowns of the plants were trampled. If they really smashed up the plants at the surface, you might be replacing quite a bit of them in Spring. Best thing to do now is clean it all up (rotting leaves can harbor disease) and hope for the best. You have to be careful that the plants do not start using their carbohydrate reserves intended for Spring to put out new growth now, or their chances of surviving winter decrease. So, hope for a hard freeze soon or try to keep any new growth to a minimum.

Re phlox:

As said above, peat moss requires work. Apparently chunks of dried peat moss are quite impervious to water.

Most gardening here is on amended clay soil (I use bagged triple mix) and continually amend the soil with subsequent plantings and replantings, so the surface of the bed tends to rise a bit over time. We do pay attention to watering our own garden, though there's a sprinkler system (not my choice) in the garden in the picture below. I don't use mulch on perennial beds, but most perennials get planted well before fall.

Think phlox must be quite hardy here. Just don't lose them over winter.

Sunnyborders wrote: Most gardening here is on amended clay soil (I use bagged triple mix)

With TM having one of the components as peat (which I prefer not to use) I instead buy 'straight' top soil (black earth) and mix it with thoroughly aged manure and or fish compost + rock dust. And if I am actually planting (rather than just adding such stuff to the surface of the soil) I put a sprinkle of a commerical mycorrhizal fungi into the hole.

restrict future access for the dogs.. and dont worry about the broken plants in late fall ... push a stick in the ground.. so you remember where they are come spring ...

never fertilize this late in the year ... zip, zero.. nada ... we want them slowing down for winter.. not speeding up ...

the issue will be.. WINTER HEAVE ... whether the soil and plant will settle enough .. so as to not pop out of the ground in late winter or spring ...

plant.. then mulch well .. to avoid the soil warming and cooling .. repeatedly in spring ... by not having the surrounding soil in sun

ken

Great food for thought everyone, thank you! My mother in law was the one that swore by peat and she gardens in conditions like mine and has for decades but I have some plants coming in now so I will do without and see what the difference in.

Ken, I was not fertilizing but I am guessing you are referring to the slow release fertilizer in the miracle grow soil? I was hoping that it was not enough to make a difference but I will be switching to ordinary topsoil with some compost asap. thanks!

Rouge21, I did have to go look up the fungus but it seems like a great idea. Where do you obtain yours?

Gallica, unfortunately I have seen the voles move in already. They seem to have taken up residence in my shade bed as I can see them moving under the mulch there. No loss in plants yet and my neighbors say they have only had problems with bulbs and I will be putting those in cages. I am hoping that spraying the beds regularly will keep them away from the valuables. I am also attempting to befriend the neighborhood stray cat haha. Any other suggestions?

Thank you for your help everyone!

Slow release fertilizer is nothing to worry about. It isn't enough of a nutrient release to make the plant go crazy with new growth. Water-soluble fertilizers (quick-release) are the real danger at this time of year.

I would be judicious with my use of mulch -- a couple inches is good enough to control temperature fluctuations. If you dump more than that, you risk trapping excessive moisture -- which as previously stated is enemy #1 of most perennials. I doubt you will have a season-long snow cover in Zone 6, but I also don't think your ground will freeze and thaw deeply enough to make heaving an issue -- though a couple inches of mulch should help with it if it is.

Just for reference, Scott's Garden Soil's guaranteed analysis nutrient level by volume is 0.08-0.05-0.05 which is a significantly smaller nutrient concentration than compost. So, no worries there.

Top soil has no uniform standard of composition, so you never really know what you are getting. Often you get a ton of weed seed. I would avoid.

Karolina, we evidently have lots of voles in our garden. Not aware of any real damage or any loss of perennial plants to our voles.

They do, however, really love crocuses. Since we do too, I just replant lots more each fall.

Ken, I was not fertilizing but I am guessing you are referring to the slow release fertilizer in the miracle grow soil? I was hoping that it was not enough to make a difference but I will be switching to ordinary topsoil with some compost asap. thanks!

===>>> what???

nobody fertilizes in OCTOBER!!!!!

if you insist.. fert in late spring.. after frost/freeze risk is gone ...

plants need to 'harden off' in fall ... not grow lush squishy growth in late fall ...

the type of fert you use is irrelevant ... and if the soil amendment you are using has such.. do NOT use it ...

ken

Agway sells bagged manure that isn't too expensive and easy to deal with. You already have the important parts of topsoil, so the manure gives a lot more bang for the buck.

If you have voles, I'd advise against mulching in the fall. They are safe under the mulch, as they are under snow cover, so the idea is to not give them a thick enough layer to hide in. Around here, their major predators belong to the Air Force. They hunt by sight, not smell.

I disagree with Ken on this one and most Extension services out there do as well. The amount of nutrients in compost and garden soil is trivial and certainly not enough to create unwanted prolific plant growth in fall. You can incorporate compost (or garden soil) into your beds at any time. Doing so in fall is actually ideal because it gives it time to improve the soil structure for next Spring's growth. The link below supports my opinion as do several others you can find online.

The very small quantity of slow-release fertilizer in garden soils, which is again much less by volume (0.08-0.05-0.05) than the nutrient content of compost (typically 0.5-0.5-0.5). Even if you were to add a slow-release now, it would not cause rampant plant growth. If you think about it, nutrients are present in most soils all the time. If the mere presence of nutrients in the soil caused excessive plant growth at the wrong time, we would have plants putting on tons of new growth in fall even without new nutrients added. It is when you flood the plant with nutrients, specifically nitrogen in the form of urea (which often occurs with quick-release fertilizers) that you see the sudden onslaught of new growth in fall. I add a light amount of Hollytone (which the directions indicate) to my acid-loving evergreen shrubs in the fall because nutrients do not just produce new growth -- they (namely, phosphorus and potassium) also help the plant's roots prepare for winter, regulate plant cell water management, and improve the plant's ability to resist disease.

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost Is Fine in Fall

tall phlox is one of the few plants that voles don't eat... usually.... I would mulch heavily for their first winter, and try to get it down before the ground freezes. With all that moisture a clay soil will really expand and if it does this fast you'll get alot of those ice needles and frost heaving. The mulch might delay it a little and then let it freeze once and hopefully only once for the whole winter.

Phlox is pretty hardy and should do fine as long as the freeze thaw doesn't rip it apart. I just moved a bunch of it this past weekend.

I've never had a problem with phlox surviving the winter. I've moved it later in the year than this and it came back fine. Digging up established plants and planting them elsewhere is hard on them. Removing them from a pot and giving them a permanent spot is not.

I wouldn't worry about heavy clay with phlox. The problem I have with them in the summer is keeping them watered. They like a lot of water to keep them from drooping in the heat, and clay will help with that.

Deanna

Great to know about the phlox!

For clarification, I am not adding any fertilizer this late besides the compost and the what slow release is in the miracle gro soil.

I am entertained that I have been on this forum this entire growing season and the idea that "compost must be in the beds" has been so ingrained that I did not even consider that it could act as a late fertilizer. Thank you mistascott for the explanations and the link. Very helpful.

Gallica, unfortunately I am in a residential neighborhood (and somehow still have had a groundhog and voles move in) so I have not seen any air predators but I will uncover some of the areas in which the voles seem to be hiding.

Now off to plant these phlox! Thank you everyone!