Gee, Ingrid, I was hoping this would stay a secret.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I am so in trouble.

Me, too, in deep trouble - I don't NEED any more roses, as I eagerly await tonight's email...

Ditto

Oh my dear. Must. Resist. Temptation.

Resist? No, no, no . . . You only pass thru here once. Why not go into debt for something that pays dividends (if not to your bank account, then to your soul)? Go for 'em . . . If you resist, you'll regret it. Trust me.

There ya go - I knew there was a reason for this!!

enablers :)

(I signed up for the email too)

WOW! What a non-event! I received the Vintage e-mail yesterday announcing the BIG e-mail that was to come during the night. With almost debilitating anticipation, I opened my e-mail this morning only to find NOTHING from Vintage. Colossal bummer so early in my day.

Did you get the e-mail?

No e-mail.

Ha, that's exactly what I came here for just now- to see if anyone else got the email!

Glad to find I'm not the only one. I did feel so left out when I checked my email this morning and had nothing more from Vintage, LOL. At least I'm in good company.

Maybe there's a technical glitch - like no internet connection? Hopefully, nothing worse than that. Can someone check on them?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I didn't get it either - I sent Gregg an email to let him know, in case it was some sort of technical glitch that he was unaware of.

Anyway, I wanted to say that people sometimes ask me where to get Anna Olivier, a tea rose that was, according to Gregg, not in commerce in No America (the one in commerce in No America was the wrong one) until one of the ancient roses in my garden was identified as it (AKA Schmidt's Buff Giant) by the Australian tea rose ladies. Anyway, last year Gregg asked me for more cuttings of mine, and I know he propagated it again, so I am hoping that when we get the list it will be on it. If you can grow teas, it is a marvelous rose. The pictures on HMF are accurate (you will notice that a small percentage of them are not the usual buff with pink, but more yellow - this is a normal occasional variation caused by weather).

Jackie

Whew! Thought I wasn't going to get invited to the party. Now I see that no one has received an email so I don't need to feel paranoid.

Diane

The email was pretty odd anyway. Why send out a message saying another message was coming out the same day with a list of roses we can't buy until Monday anyway? Why not just send out the email with that list of roses? If the list was ready, that would make more sense. Instead we got an unnecessary email which raised people's expectations, only to have them dashed. Again. Remember the spring release of roses that was supposed to be spectacular and filled with all sorts of European rarities? What we got finally was an email saying Vintage was releasing NINE, yes just NINE roses.

Vintage ought to take a page out of the book of Santa Rosa Gardens. Now that entity really knows how to put on a sale! They even show for each plant how many are in stock, and that number is regularly updated. When they have plenty you know, and when they are about out you know too. Really well done.

Melissa

Just got my email - Yay!

I have more hopes of the coming fall releases than I do of this lot just advertised.

VG has a very tiny staff and frequently is not able to meet announced deadlines. My best guess is that we will see a list Monday morning and that the number available will be nearer 200 than 400.

The best way I have found to have a chance of geting the rarest cultivars from Vintage is to use their convenient feature which automatically sends you an email when your desired rose is available.

I just got the email with the list!

Jackie

List has been sent.

Anyone who likes orange roses should consider the floribunda 'Allotria', which so far for me has all the vigor and excellence of color I have come to expect from Tantau. So far, there is very little blackspot. 'Golden Rain' is covered in BS; I think that may be an experiment that didn't work.

Only one alba, alas.

Ho hum . . . Among the vast preponderance of HTs and Floribundas in Vintage's offerings, I hope many of you find some OGRs that you must have.

It's terrific that Vintage is a repository for all of those modern roses, but I wonder who orders them and grows them successfully. Maybe the folks in California?

For me, purchasing bands of modern roses is roughly equivalent to flushing dollars down the toilet. Apparently I'm in the minority; obviously I've some gardening skills yet to hone.

It's somewhat heartening to learn that Nastarana has found success in being wait-listed for roses. My success going that route and waiting for years is approximately 0. As a result, I suspect that I may rank among Vintage's top custom-root customers.

jaxondel. I too am disappointed that Vintage is listing so many HTs and Floribundas at the expense of antique roses. After all, this supposed to be the ANTIQUE rose forum and I feel that Vintage has lost it's original vision of providing the old garden roses that are available in Europe but not here.

As nastarana said "Only one alba, alas."

Diane

I too am disappointed by the lack of OGRs. I want to support VG, but there isn't much on the list I want, esp at $20.

I just ordered the only rose I want from the list, Zalud House Rasberry Shingled. It's apparently a Hybrid Tea, a mystery rose, but I feel it must be one of the early ones. To me it's one of the most exquisite roses, although I can only judge from the pictures. I believe Pam, mendocino rose, has one and is very fond of it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Ingrid

That looks like a beautiful rose Ingrid. I've always been tempted by it because of it's unusual form for a HT but doubt it would do well in my conditions. Hope you get it.

I chose from the few old roses on the list,
Aimable Rouge -gallica
Eulalie Lebrun -gallica
Marie de St. Jean -portland

Diane

I couldn't resist and had to buy a few nice one's. I have lately bought quite a few Tea's, hoping they'll survive and do okay out here in Westchester NY. I know it's not the ideal area, but I have to try.;

Here is my order;
Grandmother's Hat- HP
Rosette Delizy- Tea
General Gallieni- Tea
Mme. Antoine Mari- Tea

The Fall availability list is going to have many OGRs. Ingrid, I hope you get the Zalud House. It comes from my lovely plant.

Pam, now that I know it's coming from your plant it will have a special meaning for me, assuming I'm lucky enough to acquire it. I'm going to be adding from the Fall list to make my order add up to four roses since shipping is the same as one, and will be curious to see what they have on offer then.

Ingrid

I have a specimen on 'Zalud House', still young but on the brink of adulthood. I've been very impressed by it--its unique beauty and its health. It's one of those roses which makes your heart leap every time a blossom starts opening. I think it might be Van Fleet's 'Clara Barton' (which was from 'Clotilde Soupert' x 'American Beauty').

People have commented on all of the Floribundas and HTs on the Vintage sale list. I'm trying to parse my feelings about this. It's made more complicated by what the sale represents: If I understand correctly, these are the extra "just to be sure" cuttings made when Vintage was rooting "special request" roses. In other words, these are the roses which Mr. and Mrs. Rose Buyer specially asked for. I'm a little bemused that, going by what they're asking for, the rose-buying public is giving so little support to Old Roses proper. Sure, needless to say, there are some splendid Floribundas and HTs--love Old Roses as I do, I myself also very much love the Floribundas of the Boerner era--and I'm glad that they're available; but it's painful to see Old Roses not getting support from the "special requesters." I look at Vintage's listings of the Bourbons, HPs, Teas, Centifolias, Damasks, and so on, in their collection, and see many many many which I can't recall ever having been on their "now available" list. Do people really need to ask for relative moderns such as 'Norwich Castle' or 'Paradise' while precious antiques go begging? But we see the list: That's what people want.

I ordered Rembrandt and Rose du Roi (original), with Nimbus and Marie de St. Jean as alternates. Ordered by email, as I was not going to be near my computer this morning, so I am sure that your order, fogrose, preceeded mine.

There were some mosses on the list that I think are not available anywhere else.

Mendocino Rose, can you tell us if there will be any of the more rare albas offered this fall?

Pam, that's good news about the fall selections. Will look forward to the list.

Nastarana, I eyed the mosses but that category as a whole tends to rust for me.

Been away doing dog things all weekend, so I had no chance to consider any of this...

When I finally caught up a breath and wanted to look at the list, I realized that it was a one-day event, and the day is almost done.

OWELL ... I can't order anything anyhow . . .

Jeri

Folks,

I see lots of lovely Teas, some very respectable Bourbons, excellent Chinas and Portlands. One of my favorite Tea-noisettes: Chromatella. A Damask that I have been looking all over for: Leda.

My list, then, goes something like this:

Mme. Legras de St. Germain
Des Peintres
Fabvier
Leda
Beauty of Rosemawr
Excellenz von Schubert
La Reine
Mme. D'Arblay
Le Pactole
Hawkeye Belle
Grand'mere Jenny
Rose du roi (original, yea, I know, good luck, nastarana)
Nuits de Young
Chromatella

Cramoisi -- When you plant Le Pactole -- GIVE IT ROOM. It might take 2-3 years to establish its roots, but when it has done so, it will become a plant of real size. I made the mistake of planting it in a bed long ago laid out for HT's. It has proceded to eat its near neighbors -- planted on insufficient 4-ft. centers. Trust that it will be lovely and disease-free, and bloom generously, but give it room to stand out.

I hope you get some winter chill.
Here at the coast, we do not -- and so, Leda declined to bloom.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Nastarana, I don't know about the Albas. I hope there are some of the ones you wanted.

Sherry, I was tempted to not mention the sale, but then I thought that Vintage needed all the support it could get and that seemed most important since they're struggling to stay afloat. I hope you were able to get the roses you wanted. Did you purchase any?

Ingrid

cramosi, you will love Mme. Legras. When I grew albas in zone 9, in the nineties, I had them planted with a NW exposure and they grew very well. They sustained the dry west winds without injury, even when I had morning glories growing through them in mid and late summer.

Odinthor, I think it may have been last summer or perhaps a little earlier that there was either an email from Vintage or discussion on one of the rose email lists, that Vintage had someone helping out/volunteering in their gardens and that this individual was doing some propagating, particularly of roses they favored, which was I think hybrid teas and/or floribundas. After that I wondered if that was why Vintage had so many hybrid teas and floribundas in stock (and seemed to stay in stock, as in they didn't appear to be selling all that well). So with this sale I thought maybe *some* of these small quantity roses were ones the helper chose to propagate.

As to lack of special requests indicating the old roses are not being supported, I don't think that is necessarily the case. Perhaps it is more that people are unwilling to pay Vintage's exorbitant price for custom propagation--$45 per plant is mighty steep in this economy and is also out of line with prices charged by other heirloom rose growers. For example, Angel Gardens in Florida charges $15 extra for a custom root order, and with their quart price at $12 and gallons at $15, the total is significantly less than at Vintage. Rogue Valley in Oregon charges $6 to be placed on a waiting list for a rose, and when that rose is ready, only $6 additional is added to the price. Greenmantle in California doesn't even charge a premium. Instead they ask for a $5 deposit to be placed on a waiting list for a rose, and when the rose is ready, the $5 is applied to the regular price of $18 for a one-year-old plant, 2 gallon size.

If Vintage intends to stay in business it is going to have to change its practices.

Melissa

there is something of a risk for criticising Vintage on this forum but hey, a lot of this sounds like sharp practice and a definate pricktease. I know I can order any Harkness rose regardless of whether it is in their catalogue or not - I might have to wait till the following season but I won't have to pay a premium and they will propagate it for me as they keep one or two of every variety they grow, back through their breeding archives for a refundable deposit. I guess, being a bit removed from the whole Vintage drama, I am kind of baffled by some of their bizarre practices and there seems to be no clear boundaries between the business and the garden. Speaking personally, I like what I like but I do not have that fanatical collector's gene which would make me pay so much over the odds when there are so many, equally beautiful and unique but much, much cheaper roses. And it isn't even down to a question of scale here either since the largest and the smallest nurseries in the UK have a much smaller pricing differential...unless you are going for the snobbery ridden world of paeony collecting, or Japanese hepaticas...in which case, it is more like the Art scene rather than the horticultural industry.

Being close to Vintage I can tell you that the idea of an individual pushing Hts and Florabundas is not true. There are no helpers who make decisions about what is propagated. I offer my own garden as a place for cuttings and I help. Custom root is only part of Vintage. I've never been interested in custom root. I feel like I can wait for something to come up at Vintage or elsewhere. I feel that all the small time nurseries can use all the support we can give them. Without it they will dissappear and I for one will be heartbroken.

I checked my e-mail too late!!! I really wanted a Tea and a Pernetiana rose on that list!!! AAAARRRGGGHHH

Please forgive my leaving the topic...
In my opinion vintage gardens has every need to charge more for their custom rooted roses considering that their inventory of mother plants that they propagate from, is more than four thousand, and every rosebush must be fed, pruned, mulched and as I have seen as a volunteer there, done with skill and love.
They are not getting rich doing this and vintage gardens nearly went under a few years ago.
Because vintagegardens.com is a collection for several hundred uncommonly grown roses, vintage has kept some from extinction, "Ambassador" comes to mind, it is a Pernetiana that was out of commerce for many years and was on the path towards extinction until vintage found one plant growing in the Oakland Rose garden and propagated from it.

I think the charge for $45 is very reasonable. Some roses are very hard to root indeed and I've found that for some I must take several cuttings to get just one to strike roots. All of those cuttings must be cut, cleaned, prepped, planted in special soil, and misted for weeks, before one can see if a cutting has formed a callus, the first stage on the way to roots, and then hoping all this time that roots will strike, a procedure that can take 4 weeks to a few months. If none of the cuttings have struck roots, all that effort was done in vain and I must wait for c. six months longer to take cuttings in the soft wood or hard wood cutting season.

Best wishes to you all,
May everyone we love get the roses they love best.
Luxrosa

The thing is, Campanula, there are roses Vintage has which are simply not available anywhere else in the U.S. (Importation is now SO difficult and expensive as to be out of the question for most individuals and most nurseries).

If Vintage is lost to us, there will be NO source for such things -- and yes, for many of us, that would be a grievous loss.

So, tho I really no longer buy much, I DO support Vintage, and hope not to lose them.

FWIW, there is only ONE rose I want at present, and Vintage hopes to have it in the coming months. When/if they do, I will buy it, if I have to spend hoarded "Birthday money" to do it -- because if I don't get it there, I won't get it at all.

Jeri

$45. may seem steep for a custom propagated rose, and is more than I want to spend, but at least every rose on the list of 4000 or so is in theory available to whomever might want to grow it.

I know of one nursery in which the rarest cultivars seem to be being deliberately withheld from the public, maybe so the proprietor can have something special and otherwise unobtainable to display at national rose events?

'I know of one nursery in which the rarest cultivars seem to be being deliberately withheld from the public, maybe so the proprietor can have something special and otherwise unobtainable to display at national rose events?'

Definately the (ahem) 'art scene' there then!
not really the sort of (common) gardening I do.

But then, being a philistine rather than a 'plantswoman', not surprising.

I'm trying to think of a national rose event where something rare and otherwise unobtainable would cause much of a buzz.

Attendees at a national orchid show might very well go gaga over the latest 'n greatest 'n rarest. And a lot of Aroid freaks seem to get off big time on the wildly exotic (they've got a national show coming up, go see for yourself). But rose folks? Nah, not so much . . .

These days, it's hard to conceive of any rose vendor withholding any variety for which there is even moderate demand.

Sheer speculation on my part, jaxondel.

But, certain varieties being owned and neither propagated nor sold nor even offered for custom propagation at any price is known. As to motive, I can only wonder.