Two other you may want to add to your trails are 'Simpson Hardy' and 'Victoria'. I have heard good things about both of those plants. If you want to be bold the nicest looking of the southern magnolias is 'Kay Parris' which may be a Brackens x little Gem. Hardiness has not been completely established for it though. David

Whaah? Where do we draw the line of "plant cruelty"?

'Simpson Hardy' ~ Where does one find Simpson's Hardy??
I've googled it w/o success :(

'Victoria' is easy to find - Forest Farm carries it.

'Kay Parris' which may be a Brackens x little Gem - Rarefind Nursery has this one.

"Whaah? Where do we draw the line of "plant cruelty"? ~ Are you serious??

Camellia Forest also has 'Kay Parris' if Rare Find is out. Call Simpson Nursery in Indiana about 'Simpson Hardy'. I am not sure about how they are selling the plant. David

I second the vote on the cultivar "Victoria". I just planted two of them in April and they have been flowering for a couple weeks now. The trees are densely foliated and compact. Said to be among the hardiest of cultivars. Little Gem is also said to be very hardy and free flowering. (Not sure of the relative advantages/disadvatages of it over the related hybrid Kay Paris). You might also want to consider the species M. virginiana. I have a deciduous variety (there are supposed to evergreen or semi-evergreen varieties of it--not sure of zone hardiness for evergreen varieties). I find its flowers to be much aromatic than grandiflora! I have the following grandiflora in my collection: Majestic Beauty, Greenback, Bracken's Brown, Edith Bogue, Little Gem, Victoria, and another unidentified
variety. Aside from cold hardiness, keep in mind that depending on leaf size and width, some of these varieties may be more or less tolerate of heavy snow and ice accumulation. Remember reading about this recently on the web but don't remember the source. Smaller and/or narrower are better for tolerating heavy snows. Krazyaroid, how many
winters have your magnolias experienced? Also, do you use any antidessicant on them before going into winter? Good luck!

I have a Magnolia virginiana that I planted in 2001. I started 8 seedlings this spring from seed that it produced last fall.

My Magnolias have experienced 1 winter except for the unnamed clone from Appalachian Gardens. That clone has experienced at least 4 winters planted out. I planted it out as I purchased a Bracken's Brown Beauty from Carroll Gardens that I did not realize was grafted until the top part of the tree died slowly over a period of two years. When I removed the tree, I noticed the graft as the bottom part was not as hardy?? and apparently died. This is why I make certain that all of the trees I have purchased are cutting grown.

I do not use antidessicant, but I have wire cages that I fill halfway with leaves and I attach burlap on the outside of the wire cage - sides only. I leave the top open. I do this in order to prevent the sun being reflected off the snow and causing sunburn on the leaves. The only one that I did not do this with is the unnamed clone from Appalachian Gardens, I will this year.

njoasis, you mentioned your 'Victoria' was blooming. I wasn't expecting anything, but I found a couple flower buds on my 5 yr-old, 9' tall x 6' wide Victoria!

Like yours, mine is very dense & compact, and does well even in rather severe wind exposure (no winter leaf damage).

Brief winter update on my Magnolias.
Our winter, especially January, has been cold. According to the January 27 edition of the Buffalo News, this January is the coldest ( In Buffalo area) since January 1977 - the year of the blizzard!
This spring will provide me with the results of the best testing (low temperature) for my trees. The lowest temps that we have had are not the actual lowest recorded temps for these Southern Magnolia Cultivars.

I have constructed burlap screens that block the winter sun from shining on the snow and reflecting into the tree. The results will be in after the growing season starts in the spring.

A brief look at all Magnolias show no damage at this point, the true test will be when the growing season begins. So far , so good...

If I had the space, I would give 'Victoria' a trial...

keep us posted. In october I planted out 2-3' rooted cuttings of 'Kay Parris', 'Lakeside Park' which is the larges plant the cincinnati area that I found several year ago and 'Trautmann's Delight' which is a seedling of 24 below that is very nice. I have covered/ protected them when temps got below 0 and from our current ice storm. Our current weather wouldn't be a problem for established plants but newly planted ones may not fair so well. We will see.

David

If it's hardy in your area, I highly recommend Little Gem. I used to only grow the really big-leaved cultivars until I got my first Little Gem. This thing blooms like crazy. Don't know when the season will begin this year (I planted mine last May). But it flowered from the time I put it in the ground into late October! This is now one of my favorites!

David ~
How are you protecting your tree?
Did you water your trees well or did it rain a lot during the fall? Are they mulched? - this will help especially if you do not have a lot of snow cover ( I do )that prevent deep freezing below soil line.
If you can find it, the book by Dr. David Francko - Palms won't grow here and other mythes. This book will help you greatly with cultivation tips for your trees.

If you can, build screen cages from fence wire and pack with leaves or if there are Xmas trees lying by the curb for brush pickup, take them. I use clippers to cut all braches off and use that as mulch/screening - it can only help.
How long was it warm from the time you planted in October until it turned cold/wintery out?

njosais - I have heard mixed opinions on Little Gem. If I had the space, I would give a try along with Kay Parris. Kay Parris is found at Rarefind Nursery in Jackson, NJ.
I got my Magnolia grandiflora 'Pocano' from them.

Why mixed? I just have not had ANY other tree, bush, flower, or shrub bloom over a longer period of time period (six months). Half the year in bloom is nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended).

I have a few in the Cleveland Ohio area and we officially had two nights with -14 and -12F at Cleveland Hopkins Airport. Now on my side of town, I saw -12 and -8F, respectively. Along with those two nights we have had about 3 other nights (that I'm aware of) between 0 and -3 and possibly another 3 nights in single digits. It is certainly the Coldest in the Cleveland area since 1994. Two weeks later I have seen no damage to two of my Edith Bogues, and no damage to one BBB. I have a larger Brackens which I planted this spring that I'm noticing some very slight burn on some of the leaves, but nothing extremely noticeable. I purchased a Little Gem but I wrapped it when I saw subzero temps coming so no damage there.

There are very few Grandifloras planted around NE Ohio, but of the ones I've noticed so far, I have seen no damage. Perhaps light winds and complete cloud cover helped with the extremes this year? I guess time will tell.

Krazyaroider,

2 weeks ago when we got so cold I put a tomato cage around my Trautmans delight and then put a paper leave bag over that, My Kay Parris I buried in Oak leaves and my Lakeside Park I built a cage around and put a cloth around the cage to stop the wind. When we started to get freezing rain 2 days ago I buried the Kar Parris in snow as I had removed the leaves.

Nikkie, let us know how the little Gem does, I have heard mixed things on its hardiness in Ohio.

David

Just wondering, but you mentioned the amount of leaf drop. Southern Magnolias usually drop a lot of leaves in the spring. In your original post were you referring to leaf drop in the winter? Thanks!

David- Yes I will let you know how Little Gem does. There is a great nursery down in Marietta, called Thomsans that I've gone to over the years. They absolutely swear by Little Gem down there and said they've actually stopped carrying BBB. I did notice that they had quite a few that were held over IN POTS from last winter after zero degrees. This summer I actually found and bought a gorgeous 15ft BBB in Akron that was held over from last winter and looked as lush as many you would see in the Deep South and so far so good on all of them here, though I'm nervous. The cold is unrelenting. What I did find interesting is that two weeks ago after the first very cold evening, I got outside and covered a few things and used some stakes to hold the covers down. The Ground was NOT frozen! I don't know what its like now as I'm not at home, but underneath that 18 inches of snow, my not so strong arms, were able to push the stakes in with no problem! Hopefully if the ground isn't frozen deep, at least the plants can transport some moisture from the ground. I've talked to quite a few people about grandifloras around here and after many trials I think the KEY is simply keeping them out of winter wind and sun. I think they can withstand cold temps (to a degree) but the frozen ground and winter sun just fries them.

Let me know how the Kay Paris does. I think I asked you this before on a seperate thread, but what grandifloras are sold down there in Cincy? Do you find much difference in hardiness between Edith and BBB? Thanks! N

Nikkie ~
As long as there is a snow cover, you will have insulation that does not allow the frigid air temperature to reach the ground. It is a totally different scenario if there is no snow cover. The ground will remain warmer than the air above the snow.

Speaking of snow cover, my magnolias are pretty much covered with snow as it drifts pretty good here.
From what I can see, they look OK at this point, the final results will be in during the warmer spring months.

Are you the person that grows an Edith Bogue in Toronto? If so, how is it doing?

~ Gerry

HI Nikkie,

Brackens is sold in the largert numbers followed by Edith. Some carry Little Gem. All the experts I have talked to think Little Gem is the least hardy of the ones available locally but it has the longest flowering period of any magnolia.

I agree with your view that Wind and sun effect their hardiness. A Little Gem in a protected place may fair better than Brackens in an exposed location.

In determing ultimated hardiness for southern magnolias you have to go back to the winter of 1976-77 locally. That year Cincinnati had 28 days below zero, an all time record low of -25 with 3 days in a row below -20. That year the Ohio River froze over and people walked from Cincinnati to Northern Kentucky on the river ice. Most southern magnolias were killed back to ground level but several survived including the one I have called 'Lakeside Park'. I am sure all the plants that survived had been established for a long time with very well established root systems. So as long as your plants roots are protected and the grounds not frozen for to long your plants should be fine.

In the future if you want to try any other selections you may want to consider Poconos, Victoria and Simpson Hardy. Of the group Poconos may be the hardiest. The 'Lakeside Park' I have is still being evaluated as is 'Trautmanns Delight'. The latter is a very attractive tree with a very long flowering period and nice leaves. It is also a full size tree.

David

Victoria is a wonderful variety! What I like about it so far is how low to the ground it seems to branch. Its growth in tight and dense with lustrous medium dark green leaves. As was said above, some light shading and protection from winter sun and wind is very beneficial in the colder zones. Also helps to spray with an anti-desiccant spray in mid to late autumn before the onslaught of winter (as least for the first few years while it's still establishing itself--and is small enough to reach). Come on Spring!

Gerry- Actually, my username is quite misleading. My home is in Cleveland but work takes me to Toronto quite a bit. I have a small patio garden in Toronto so no room for an Edith. lol. But I have a few other things. Most of my gardening is done in Cleveland. As you stated in your post, so far so good here in Cleveland too. I'm seeing some very minimal burn on the BBB I planted in July. You have to look carefully at it, but some leaves facing the sun have a slight brown cast, but 90% of the tree is unfazed. I did water very well in Sept-Nov. I have two Ediths and both seem fine. No problem with Little Gem, though its still covered. I do not know of many around the area, but the Ediths I'm seeing seem to be fine, so far.

If David is reading this post, I want to let you know, (carry over from conifer forum) that so far everything else looks good. NO burn on any of the Blue Atlas Cedars! Pinus wallichiana looks good. Pinus thunbergii Shirome Janome looks like it has some slight burn, but Oculus Draconis has zero Burn. Also, some slight burn on Cunninghamia, but again you have to look carefully to notice it. Keeping my fingers crossed things are okay. I think I can wait another 15 years until this happens again. :) I did talk to some friends that live between Newark and Columbus. They tied a record low of -24F. Sadly, their blue atlas cedars are brown! I should be thankful I stayed at -12F. Lake effect snow aside, Erie comes in handy sometimes.

Nikkie,

Tell your friends to wait until spring to make sure the cedars are dead. I have been told they can push new growth after their needles are burned off. Only time will tell. Good to hear all your plants came through the cold OK. I'll be interested to see how my Kaki persimmon does this spring.

David

'Little Gem' has been said to be tender and recent experience here bears that out, with nearby specimens burned significantly by temperatures above 0 degrees F (8 degrees F claimed elsewhere on this site for another property near here).

I left a 12' 'BBB' at my previous house here in Northern Illinois. I saw it last week, and it's still doing fine. It is completely deciduous though. All leaves will be brown by April, fall off completely in May, releaf in June. It doesn't seem to bother it at all as it keeps growing and flowering each year. It has seen temps less than -20F many times.

February 25, 2009 - UPDATE:

All of the trees have slight leaf burn - we are having/have had colder than normal winter temperatures. I also believe the amount of wind has been more than normal. I consider this a good test of their hardiness. Trees look good at this point.

All buds on all trees appear good at this point. This refers to the buds being green, flexible along with the stems appearing green. I realise this is early, but I feel confident of their hardiness.

I am looking forward to the growing season and the updates will continue!

~ Gerry

March 9, 2009 - Update

I checked all magnolias - all except for Edith Bogue have burn on their leaves. The burn is not severe, however the winter has been colder and windier than normal. My magnolias normally lose leaves in the spring when new growth begins so I am not too concerned with springtime leaf dropping.
The trees have burlap screens on the side where the Sun would normally shine on them in the afternoon and the burlap is on the side that the winds normally come from.

I gently "wiggled" random buds on all Magnolias. A stiff rigid bud indicates winter kill and possible die back. All buds that I tested were flexible indicating that they survived to this point. I have done this last year so I am confident that they have survived the worst of this winter.

June 30, 2009 Update

All magnolias are pushing out strong growth and look healthy, despite the cold, snowy and windy winter of 2008/09.

The trees look full as leaves that dropped were replaced with new ones. I am pleased with their hardiness as this past winter was a true test of their hardiness.

I removed a flower bud from "Bracken' s Brown Beauty" and "Pocano" so energy is directed into growth.

Only stem die back was on "-24 Below" and this was a minor side stem so it was not a problem with the tree' s shape.

Unrelated topic - The hardiness of my 10 foot Sequoiadendron giganteum 'Glaucum' has been impressive and this tree has been growing stronger for the last 2 years.

Krazyaroider,

What is the coldest your redwood has taken and what was your source? David

David ~

The coldest my Giant Sequoia "Glaucum" has taken is around
- 10 degrees during this past winter.
The source is Wayside Gardens, it was purchased in 1998.

David- Hazel Smith Came through -12F and -10F for me in Cleveland with absolutely no damage. Powder Blue came through -18 and -19F (consecutive nights) at Gee Farms in Michigan with NO damage. Hazel Smith had some burn at Gees after those nights, from what I've heard.

Nikkie and Krazyaroider,

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check with Gee's as I didn't know there was anything hardier than Hazel Smith.

Hey picea, ten years later are there any updates on 'Lakeside Park' or 'Trautman's Delight'?