I agree that over-fertilization can lead to lanky growth and that Black eyed Susans don't need fertilizer. However I've grown Rudbeckia hirta 'Indian Summer' and 'Irish eyes' and they've both gotten floppy, even in fairly lean well-drained soil and without fertilizer. This year I decided to try pinching them to make them bushier and see if that prevented flopping. So far so good and some are just starting to bloom. I did the same with some Echinacea 'Summer Sky' which always flops (it's probably not growing in enough sun). We'll see how that does.

It's a common problem with BESs. There have been a number of other threads on this issue. Since BESs tend to seed around everywhere after a few seasons in the garden, it seems to me that the best thing to do is to remove any old ones that are having problems & just keep the newer seedlings, especially those that are at a distance from the mother plants. The new ones in my garden have generally been very clean, at least for the next few years. Toss any seedlings that are not clean. I usually don't let any of them stay around for more than a few years & this seems to keep all the plants clean & with a much longer bloomtime. I have been really surprised by the length & quality of bloom on my BES seedlings over my older diseased plants - must have forgotten what it was like to have healthy BESs! IME other kinds of plants don't seem to be bothered by whatever fungus, mildew, or mold this is that causes the blackening & eventually reduces bloom of the BESs, so I've never bothered to clean the soil, just planted different perennials in their old space. Others here may have had a different experience however. If you are worried about not having enough seedlings if you remove all the mother plants, keep them around (ugly as they are) until the seedheads are ripe & shake the seeds around where you want them to come up next year. I never had heavy seeding until the year I removed the 6 foot long patch of original plants on a pretty day in late fall - the seeds must have accidentally spread every which way - because I had new plants many yards away in at least 6 or 8 spots the next summer without even trying to seed them. LOL.

I had the same problem with mine. I moved it to a spot where there were lots of other flowering plants, and it seemed to do better. My idea was that maybe it is just not as attractive to pollinators as other plants unless it was just handy. I have the white one, blushing suzie, sunrise surprise & the regular. The white & blushing suzie have gone on to make seeds, Sunrise surprise which is off by inself has never made seeds. By the way, I kept one inside last winter, it does nicely in a sunny window & will bloom all winter.

Patty... Please post back when you try planting them in the spring, I'd really like to know how your seeds saved from the green pods do. I looked every day up until frost got mine & never could find any like the picture Gypsea posted & really wanted to save some seed. I'd love to have some seed if anyone has any spare seed, can sasbe or offer something in trade. This is my first year to save seed so don't have a great choice but plenty of Turk's Cap seed I can offer in trade. [a Hummer favorite] Thanks