"I know the best time to plant Thuja Green Giant's is early spring."

Not necessarily. They'll do fine in your area planted in fall or winter as well. Small non-potbound pot-grown trees can even do fine now with proper aftercare.

"Seems like some websites will ship the Thuja's all summer in the south but I don't know if they do that to make a buck or because the trees will survive."

Primarily to make a buck and secondarily because there is a chance of survival.

"I was planning to order gallon size or 3 gallon size pots."

This should be a good size. If you get plants that are not potbound and take good care of them, they should do fine if planted now. It's not the ideal time, but it will work. I would strongly advise you to purchase locally. You can save on shipping costs, inspect the root systems before you purchase the trees to ensure that the root system is OK and not potbound, eliminate significant extra stress the trees will go through by being shipped in this heat, and choose well-formed single-leader specimens. I would never consider mail ordering such a commonly available plant this time of year when they are so easy to find locally and with all the previously mentioned advantages or purchasing locally.

no bare root unless fully dormant...

otherwise its all about your soil.. and your ability to PROPERLY care for them for the next two years ...

what is your soil .. what are you plans on how you are planting them ..

how will you insure proper water and drainage ....

and how will you mulch them???

and how good is the sellers guarantee

sometimes there is a BIG GAP between what CAN be done.. and what SHOULD BE DONE ...

if you plant... do not take a week long vacation or you might come back to find them dead .... unless you can hire someone to care for them ...

ken

Ken,
Can you elaborate a few points? Are your comments - about two years of proper aftercare, insuring proper drainage, and the soil type - meant to address planting at this time of year? Would any of those significantly change if planting was done at some other time? And, when you mentioned that there was a big difference between what can be done and what should be done, what particularly were you referring to?

seriously brandon.. you and i have covered PROPER PLANTING AND PROPER AFTERCARE in a couple hundred posts in the various tree and conifer forums in the last few years ....

my point.. if i have one [never say that to your spouse during and argument... lol] ... is that for the person with low experience.... if you do it at the PROPER time .... your success rate can EASILY be near 100% ...

when the novice start bending the curve.. and trying to do it at the absolute wrong time... success can easily fall below 25% if they do not optimize all the variables ...

i listed all the variables that need to be addressed.. and asked if the poster can address them all to optimize success .... and yes.. the variables are no different based on time of planting .... but they have to know all the variables.. not just timing ....

no reply from them ... as of yet ... we shall await such ...

i increased my success to around 95% ... when i learned that regardless of dreaming up the scheme in the dead of summer.. i actually plan on doing it at the proper time ....

TIMING IS THE ABSOLUTE.. MOST IMPORTANT VARIABLE.. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED... and we are not discussing hiring professionals who have big machines and guarantee the result ... because even they fail at times ....

what the poster can do.. is start round uping the bed .... apply some mulch .... maybe even dig the holes.. to loosen the soil .... decide if clay is an issue.. and whether planting will be raised .... figure out watering..

and order the plants for delivery at the proper planting time ... the project can proceed.. but the ultimate planting should be late fall.. when the leaves of other trees start to turn color .... or early fall ... if it is relatively cool in late sept ...

ken

Ken,

You seem very knowledgeable on the topic but I have to question one thing. You talk about pre-preparation to planting and then say that "Timing is the absolulte, most important variable". All of that makes sense to me but then you say that late fall is the best time to plant.

From everything I've read so far, late fall is the one time of the year that no one recommends. The reason no one recommends it makes sense to me since the tree's are basically on life support for the first couple months with desperate need for water and then you throw in freezing temperatures on top of that. So now the trees need water, the roots aren't established, the ground is hard and cold, and they can't get any water because the water just freezes anyway.

Can you explain why late fall is the best time to plant?

Jfw432,

What you are describing is relevant to much colder areas of the country (zone 4/5 or below) but not to anywhere in GA. If your ground freezes at all, it would not be deep.

Planting in late fall in warmer areas (like GA) is ideal because it gives the tree the maximum time to become established before having to deal with the stresses of summer heat.

Here is a link that might be useful: Planting a Tree or Shrub

There are better adapted evergreens to mid ga.

It's not uncommon to find 1 gallon Japanese Cedars and leyland cypress if you have room for them at home depot or lowes for about $7 a piece with warranty. Do not bother planting in the summer.

by late fall .. i mean when the leaves of other trees turn color ... that is roughly translated into meaning ALL trees are dormant ...

you are always better off .. moving dormant trees ...

in my zone 5 ... that also means.. you have 2 cool seasons to grow roots.. that fall until ground freeze ... and all spring after ground thaw ....

that means TWO FULL SEASONS OF ROOT RE-ESTABLISHMENT... before the heat of the following july or august ...

you must agree you dont want to move a fully leafed out tree...

you must agree that two seasons are better than just doing it in spring ....

but it is really just all about.. minimizing your odds of failure .... if need be.. it can be done in the heat of summer.. big enough truck.. big enough tree spade ... money talks..

but when you are just talking about us peons... with a shovel... why do all that work and fail.... if you can just wait a month or two.. and get 95% odds of success ...

now others will say late fall is thxgvg ... and that is too late ...

in my mind.. fall starts 9/1 ... and it can still be pretty hot at night ...

perfect planting in my z5 is about 10/1 .. cool days.. cool nights.. moist soil.. GROWS ROOTS ....

but you have to be pretty much done by 11/1 .... to keep those odds in good shape

gotta run

ken

"now others will say late fall is thxgvg ... and that is too late"

For Ken's zone 5, yea, but not in the slightest bit for Jfw432 in GA. Jfw432, you can plant trees and shrubs, that are hardy in GA, anytime between mid fall and early spring with excellent results. If it's warm enough for you to be able to dig a hole in your soil, it's warm enough to plant your tree.

Yes Ken, I know you were talking about your zone. (-:

Give us an update on how things are going with them and exactly what zone you're in. My 3 yr old TGG is suffering in Z8 Tx. w/100+F temperatures. Looks like this tree is marginal for this area of Texas.

Suffer in the heat.
Suffer in the cold.

These Thuja X's shouldn't be shipped east of the rockies.

"These Thuja X's shouldn't be shipped east of the rockies."

I couldn't disagree more! They perform much better than Leylands in this part of the country. Their range doesn't extend as far south, but they are a superior tree over a broad area! You might want to take another look before discounting them.

Well I saw some trees on the way home from work and picked up 8 Thuja's today from the local nursery that was having a 75% off sale for the end of season. I bought four 7 gallon pots and four 3 gallon pots for $55. One of the small ones was browning a bit at some of the tips and another one had some brown in the middle but otherwise, they appear to be in good shape. No clue how long they've been in the pot though. I just figured even if half die, I still got a good deal and could chalk it up as a learning experience for more later.

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" You might want to take another look before discounting them."

I promise to take another look if you promise to take another look.

I'm very familiar with both. In the course of my work, I have reviewed many opinions about both trees, including many opinions on Gardenweb. Your opinion is definitley in the minority; Actually, you are the only person I have ever seen (yeah, I'm sure there is someone else out there, but not many) that prefers Leylands to Green Giants in all locations "east of the rockies."

Just do a quick search of "Leyland" in this forum, and you'll see that it's frequently considered quite susceptible to a number of problems. Every tree has limitations, but pitching Leylands over Green Giants even in areas where Green Giants thrive is rather strange, at best.

I am not saying Leyland is a problem-free tree.
I am not advocating growing leylands in every conceivable scenario. You read way too much into my post.

I know this forum is very anti-leyland. Their canker issue may be lower risk in GA than in other climates from what I've read and we don't have a ton of pyramidal evergreens to choose from. Leylands form a good privacy screen and have high quality foliage for specimen or other use. They not only tolerate but actually seem to do better in our clay soil than in sandy or loamy soil in my findings. Weird and unbelievable, I know.

Sometimes people need a bigger tree than green giants and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they need a fast growing screen and sometimes they need a legacy tree. I do plenty of suggesting long lived trees like beech, hickory and oaks.

Green giants on the other hand, I can't speak for Tennessee, mind you, but down here they bronze big time in the winter. I posted about that several months ago. And even in the warm season, they don't look as good as leylands, redcedar, Cryptomeria or even T. occidentalis.

There's a poster on here up in new england that posted pictures of their green giants. None of them look that good here. Not just mine but all over town, I have yet to see a green giant that is a.) large & b.) higher quality foliage- deep green and dense.

There's plenty of other trees that are common McFlora that nobody raises a stink over like the flowering cherries, crabapples, and apples, including serviceberry. These all have a host of liabilities yet they are suggested for planting constantly here.

Leylands have their place in some, but not all landscapes and in "Mid GA" the choices are not too vast to begin with. To someone who lives in zone 6 in Tennessee, I'd tell them to plant something else, more than likely. Down here they are new and unproven.

JFW432, it should be much easier on you, and you will not have to wait all that long if you wait until this hottest part of the Summer's heat breaks to plant those trees you posted in your photo on July 14th.

If you plant them when daily high temps exceed 95 degrees,and if your soil is well draining they will need much more watering. Or if you plant them now, you might not see much growth out of them for several more years than if they were planted in your early fall months, or whenever the daily high temps do not climb above 98 degrees F. at those times in your area.

Another thing to remember, is that GGs will change color in the winter if they are exposed to more winter sun and and wind. Planting them in a more sheltered area like with a north western exposure that where they are sheltered from large trees or buildings and fences directly to thier South and East, these GGs would be sheltered enough to avoid the winter browning problems mentioned above. Or even planting them where they will get morning sun and afternoon shade will help them out in your area.

So in summary try to avoid planting them in area where they will be exposed to Southern or direct western and Northwestern exposure. That is if you agree it will bother you to see them change to their redish bronzy brown color that the other people are complaining about.

In sandy soil at any location, use a non-burning slow release Osmokote type fertizer and water your trees daily for the first 2 weeks after planting. Then begin to slowly decrease the watering until you are only watering them twice a week. Keep watering them twice a week for about then next 6 months if your area is not getting regular rain events. after than your trees should be fine if you gradually slow down on the watering frequencly until you get find they are still doing Okay when you water them only once a week. Continue that weekly watering Unless you enter a period of frequent and sufficient rains, so much so that you can decrease the watering, or at such times in Summer of 2010 when the heat returns and the tree might need to again be supplimentally watered at least twice a week or more depending on how quickly draining the soil in in their planting bed.

Osmokoke usually is sold in 3,or 4, and if I remember right even longer effective durations each per application.

In my are I would only need to apply the Osmokote in late march and early September. Since your growing season is probably long than in my area, you might need to apply it 3 times or even 4 depending on how well draining your soil is.

If your planting bed is slow to drain, then ignore the above suggested watering and feeding schedule, and test your tree's planting bed for their moisture level before giving them any more water. I say that because these trees roots will suffer signicantly is they are planted in clay soil which drains slowly and leaves the soil where they are planted saturated for extended hours of time.

In moderate to heavy soil beds your goal would be to only keep the soil slightly moist and make certain that soil has become fairly dry before supply another application of supplimental watering. Also if the soil is clay do not add amendents soil to the back fill when planting the trees. If you want to give your trees the benefit of good compost soil, apply that compost as a mulch on top of your planting bed, and cover that compost with a thin layer of with a shredded ceder mulch if your need to prevent errosion from occuring in the planting bed or beds. Just keep both the compost and the mulch about 4 to 5 inches away from the trunks of your trees.

Then here's another suggestion, keep in mind that on GGS any branch that you cut back to the trunk will remain bare. I mean, that no new branch will grow to fill that area of the trunk in. So if you want to do any pruning on your GGS never cut deeper than the green leaf folliage. Even if for any reason some of the the lower branches of your trees go dry and drop their leaves do not cut those branches off. You can instead simply water the tree more appropriatly long enough and the tree should at the appropriate time award you with growing new leaves on that previously dead looking branch.

Oh almost forgot. The branches on these trees will die if large dogs are allowed to spray them. Such constant applications of the high content ammonia will begin to show signs of making the leaves turn red and then black just prior to when entire branch will die. If the soil is in the tree's planting bed is saturated with such high contents of ammonia all season long then in the next most stressful season some of the worst affected trees will be more prone to die no matter how much you attempt to care for them.

NEVER FERTILIZE TREES OR CONIFERS ... EVER!!!!!!

unless a soil test indicates something is lacking in your soil ...

and if you get some inkling to add a LITTLE FOOD.. do NOT USE TIME RELEASE

PERIOD!!!!

KEN

Yikes...
Somebody advocating planting leyland cypress and somebody advocating new transplants all in the same thread!

Osmokote works very well on GGS; especially if they are planted in sandy soil that drains so fast and which is so often found to have had the humus and other soil nutrients washed away by all that fast draining water.

Osmokote has never burned any of my GG tree's roots; not even when I sprinkled it into the backfill when planting GGs in other types of soils.

The biggest detriments to these trees I have seen is:

(1)soils that are too dry, and not given well timed, supplimental watering when the tree is attempting to become established.

(2) soggy, saturated soils that can easily destroy a GGs fine root system

(3)medium to large dog's given access to spray GG tree's folliage. Along with that activity, those dogs also, causing a result of elevated concentrations of ammonia content in the planting bed's soil.

So now that I do have these 8 trees, would it be better to plant now in the hot summer or leave them in their pots in semi-shade for another month or two? Obviously, I would have to water them regularly no matter where they are but would like to clarify which of the two evils would be better? In ground or in pot?

I would wait and plant them in late sept.
The weather in GA in july and aug is pretty brutal.

If you took my initial advice and made sure they are not potbound before you purchased them, plant them now. They will be much easier to maintain and will not become potbound from being in the pot too long. If they aren't potbound, there's really no downside to planting them now except having to dig holes in the hot weather. Just be sure to keep them properly watered either way.

If they are potbound and require a significant amount of root manipulation / cutting then planting them in cooler weather is probably best.

It's hard to tell for sure from the pictures, but it looks like a couple of the trees might possibly have double leaders. If that's the case, I'd take care of that now whether you plant them now or later.