I'll put in a pitch again for Baltimore Belle. I got it from Vintage in '04. It's been tip hardy in my z5a. That cross with a Noisette and Setigera was truly inspired. The Noisette contributed the very floriferous nature of the rose while the Setigera coontributed hardiness. I'll post a pic soon once I figure out how to do that. Thanks to the help from a poster here. I'll look up that name and list it later. Anyway BB is really a marvelous rose. It's on my garage wall that faces the kitchen so I look at it every day. And fragrant so you catch that wonderful aroma when you go near it.

But for people in colder zones I don't think there is any rose that qualifies. I note that Riku is missing on this thread. Could that mean anything? And that U. of Mn book on hardy roses for the North doesn't even mention Ramblers.

Then I'm trying Long John Silver. We'll see how it does.

I forgot about W. Lobb. I have that one. It's a moss rose that's quite hardy for me. It has very fragrant pink-mauve-grey flowers for three weeks in June. It's more of a pilar rose. The stout canes reach eight feet for me. I grow mine twisted around a pole. It fights back, but I always win. Lobb is very thorny. To extend the flower show, I grow a Polish clematis through it. The two grow well together.

And since we're looking at mosses as climbers, please consider 'Henri Martin' This is a reddish-pink moss with very long, floppy canes. Also fragrant and perfectly hardy and healthy here in zone 4a. Mine requires a tripod to hold itself up. I have to cut the long canes even with this support to keep it in bounds. Silly me, I thought it was a shrub OGR.

Silverkelt: I know of a plant of 'Mme. Sancy de P' that does well in Z6a/5b, with some minor die-back in a severe winter. A very nice old Boursault rambler, she has attractive flowers, VERY early bloom, but, alas, hardly any fragrance.

Jim ,

I actually have been thinking about balitore belle, I just havent decided on anything yet. Who knows I usually change my mind a dozen times before I actually order anything.

I probably grow 'Mme. Sancy de Parabere' in a bit too much shade back home, but it's somewhat sparse of growth (maybe gangly is a better word) and the canes have a thin, tender skin that can dry out in winter even when they seem very hardy otherwise. The flowers are large, though not too numerous on mine, nor as fully petaled as many specimens I've seen in pictures. It came from Greenmantle Nursery - I'd be interested in learning where any better forms might have come from.

'Baltimore Belle' sounds very much worth trying. I've never seen one full-size because the plant I know here in DC gets chopped back as a shrub during the summer, leaving time to put on about four feet of arching growth by fall. It performs admirably when treated this way, for anyone reading this thread without space for a rambler to grow naturally, though you miss out on the effect of great clouds of bloom.

I'm really looking forward to your comparison of 'Long John Silver' (or whatever is being grown as this cultivar today) and 'Baltimore Belle', Jim!

Well, there are zone fives and then there are zone fives. :-)

I'm not sure that splitting them into 5A and 5B is a helpful exercise. Technically, I'm in 5A.

But, looking at weather records from the early 1800s to present, in my particular area the temps have only gone to -20F or below 5 or 6 times in 187 years. That averages out to about once every 31-37 years. It seems obvious that this is just measuring air temps, and wind chill factors are excluded.

If you drive 7 miles west, the temps can be anywhere from 5 to 7 degrees lower at times (but sometimes the difference is less), so they've hit the zone 5 estimated lows a bit more often, but still not as often as one would suspect. Although they are also zone 5A, their zone 5A is less forgiving.

Anyhow, for some roses, hitting the low only once would probably be the death knell for the plant.

I haven't tried any "true" ramblers, so I can't chime in on that subject. However, there are some roses that can do a reasonable imitation of a rambler, in that they grow large/tall and have generous cane output with little winter die back.

Still, many of the roses that are lean, mean growing machines in warmer climates will not get very big here. Our options are fewer in that regard. It would be an exceptional rose indeed that would grow tall and drip off a trellis or porch. A very vigorous rose might be able to do that, but it would probably take 10 years for it to get to that point. :-)

Even if you exclude the temperature factor, the season is just too short. Because of the short growing season, even the occasional zone 7ish winter won't produce huge plants, although they will get a little bigger than they normally do, probably due to less cane die back.

In all, does it really matter if your winter turns out to be equivalent to a zone 6 or 7 winter if your roses go dormant at roughly the same time as they normally do?

If mid and late autumn puts the roses into dormancy, their growing season hasn't been increased. A mild winter *might* reduce die back, assuming there are no harsh freeze/thaw cycles in the spring. This leads to a noticeable increase in the size of the roses the following summer. But they still don't get to be jolly green giants.

I've also noticed that the Gallicas absolutely hate mild winters and become poor performers following a gentle winter, especially those that are not China hybrids.

One of these days I'm going to try Russell's Cottage Rose.

The wichuraiana and kin could be promising, but it's my understanding that at least some of them take a loooong time, like years, to get established and hit their stride in the cold zones. So patience is a must. :-)

If you're in coastal Maine, you'll be able to have more success than if you're located in the interior parts of the state. The ocean moderates temperature extremes.

Stefan, thanks for reminding us of how young you are and how old we are (*wink*). I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with labeling a rose "antique" when it's younger than me. :-)

Er, I hope I didn't actually make anyone feel old... I just wanted to make the perception of antiquery a relative thing, because I sort of like this forum as a gathering place for misfit and unpopular roses and I hate black-and-white rules. Anyway, it's not easy being young; I can't even afford a garden of my own. Window ledges aren't the greatest place for roses, no matter how hard I try.

Stefan, I wasn't intimidated by you personally, just your knowledge of rambler classification. ;0) I'm only 28 too.

This thread really highlights the crappy difference one zone can make... there are so many climbers and ramblers that are "so close, but so far away" for me. I'm just 100 miles from Minnesota and the difference is enormous. I'm enjoying reading about what I'm narrowly missing though.

It's great to meet somoeone my age! So... what month were you born? (just kidding!) :)

I seriously think you should try 'White Mountains' - I remember that the old Skinner's catalog listed it as dying back to the snowline in zone 2, but you might do very well with it in your 3a. You should be able to order it from Ashdown when it's available again if you can't find it elsewhere. Of course, there's always 'Polstjarnan', but you've heard the caveats.

Skinner also listed 'Max Graf' saying that it, too, would kill back in zone 2 but still flower below the damage. 'Paulii' could be even better given that Rosa arvensis is a little less tender than Rosa luciae, but either one is probably a thorny beast.

Riku, did 'Le Reve' ever pan out for you in terms of hardiness?

I once planted a Mme. de Sancy but I haven't seen it lately. Probably if I delved into the thicket of weeds where it used to be there might be some dead stubs of canes.

So not the best place to plant a rose but it maybe shows it isn't for here.

Stefan - Nov. 12 - LOL. Thanks for the White Mountains suggestion, never heard of it, I will have to look it up. I already have Polstjarnan. It's just a baby and own-root so it's nothing big yet but it's putting on good growth. My friend in Zone 2a has it and it's hardy for her up on an arbor in the middle of an acreage with no protection.

My American Pillar from Ann in TN dies back to about a foot here - (or less) but just like Kay I have a good show of blooms right now. It's just that you have to look *down* to see them.
Does anyone grow Asta von Parpart? I read that it was a good possibility for my zone because of its multiflora heritage and so I ordered a baby from Vintage - it's finally starting to take off after 2 years of being a very hardy 12" baby, but I don't know yet how hardy the canes will be when it climbs above the snowline.

Ramblin' Red is your best bet. Viking Queen is a climber that is supposed to be hardy in zone 5. Surprisingly, Graham Thomas survives the winter here without protection (lots of dieback, though).

"Riku, did 'Le Reve' ever pan out for you in terms of hardiness?"

"Nyet" for two reasons.

Reason 1: In the third winter, though cane damage was only at worst 50% it is what died that is the most important. The oldest "wooded" canes of easily 1 inch plus in diameter died (they should of been the hardiest I feel). Though already the new canes and growth off the old ones is exceeding 5 feet - it gets big.

Reason 2: This particular clone has not bloomed - including this summer - in 3 summers.

So the jury is in, out next spring with this clone and if Pickering carries it again I will try once more because enough cane survives to give blooms ... all in theory of course. I remember Lozza claiming some tender roses even if the cane survives well will not bloom. I am not there yet except with some gallicas, because low and behold the bourbon Gypsy Boy bloomed this year after I failed with Bourbon Queen and Variegata Boug (sic) and now I have Cass' "poiple".

I think your aware I rarely give up on a rose I feel will make it to bloom and have come to learn that some clones are just lousy and try again ... such as on my third Amélie Gravereaux and this one is actually growing like a proper roses bush.

Guessing in Minnesota the cane above your 5 feet of snow accumulation :-))) would die but the rest of the bush should be a-o-k.

Now that we're onto bona fide climbers ;) I found 'Viking Queen' surprisingly tender - it seemed no hardier than any other modern climber in Minnesota even during winters with zone 5 minimum temperatures, and it perished after two winters. I wasn't impressed. Ramblin' Red is great if you need a hardy, healthy climber with large flowers, for sure.

Riku, it sounds like you had one of those weird winters where the damage occurs where you'd expect it least... those happen even in warmer zones, so maybe it's nothing to be concerned about. Though I'd be anxious for it to bloom if that happened to me, too. Our snow is much less reliable than that in Minnesota! Maybe that wasn't always the case, but it certainly is today. Sometimes we're lucky to have an inch or two on the ground as the temperature plummets below zero, and then the nail biting ensues.

I'm an April baby, heh. You're not into breeding roses too, are you northspruce? That's another great reason to consider WM... it's willing to reproduce on command, much more than, say, 'Polstjarnan'.

I was wondering how long it would be for this thread to wander off-topic into the modern climbers, darn it! To return to reality, another very hardy old rambler is 'Patricia Macoun', along with the Geschwind varieties 'Nordlandrose' & 'Annie of Tharau'

NEroseman! What are the habits of patricia macoun and annie of tharau, will they climb and stay cane hardy in my zone???? I couldnt find nordlandrose in helpmefind. It also doesnt show a USA source for either of the other two. Patricia was at brentwood nursery in canada, however they do not ship to US.

If this is for the arbor in the gallery, it will end up eaten alive by practically everything discussed in this thread. We have R. setigera, Geschwind's Orden and Queen of the Prairies on a split rail fence with 10 ft sections. Each one is planted in the middle of its own section, and all of them are currently spilling over and getting looped back a couple of times. R. setigera is probably the smallest of the 3, with mere 15 ft canes. The others are probably more like 25 ft if spread out in a straight line.

There is a big difference between roses that stay small because they are small, roses that stay small because of winterkill, and roses that believe small is for wimps. This discussion is mostly about the last kind.

Hi mad, no its not for the arbor, I have a south facing wall that is crying out for a 10-15 foot rose of some sort. Looking at the ramblers on some sites had me thinking tis all.

I have to admit that I am playing "catch up" with respect to Geschwind and his roses. I now have 'Geschwind's Schonste' but it is only one year old and I have no impression of it yet. 'Gipsy Boy' is only two years old but has launched itself into the top tier of my favorite roses in that short time. It is a 3 shrub (at least so far), so not really germane to this discussion, but I cant help but gush about its long blooming season, beautiful purple flowers, and nice shrubby shape.

I have had poor old William Lobb climbing about 10 into a shrubby dogwood (Cornus racemosa) in a wickedly windy and cold hedge for 16 long years. Well, I finally figured out that it is a huge waste to have this beautiful rose sentenced to Siberia for eternity and have removed two Alberta spruce from the south side of the cottage and will now populate it with roses climbing the side walls. Already in place is 'Russell's Cottage Rose' which will grace one side of a south window with William Lobb to take up residence this coming winter on the other side. Constance Spry is on another south facing wall, having been rescued from my "Siberian" hedge last spring. So that leaves me with a southwest facing corner which will either be American Pillar or Dorothy Perkins.

Constance Spry may not be that old, but she certainly looks the part of an old rose and will be absolutely spectacular in this spot where she can spread out along the wall. She is not much of a climber, at least no more than William Lobb, but for this space where I dont want a climber, as such, but a rose with pliable canes to espalier across a space 6 wide by 7 tall I think she will be ideal. I would prefer Dorothy Perkins to American Pillar for the corner, but again the space dictates the rose and American Pillar growing rather stiffly upright I think would be better than Dorothy Perkins whose canes need a lot of support and could outgrow the space if she takes off as she should.

So, my success with 'Gipsy Boy' has given me a big "heads up" regarding Geschwind and I will eagerly try 'Nordlandrose' next year if I can, but 'Annie of Tharau' isnt even in the Combined Rose List for 2006. I will have to wait for her to reach our shores, assuming she can sneak through our ever vigilant homeland security.

Unfortunatly, 'reality' for most of us is never being able to
get some of those very hard to find ramblers.
As for Geschwind, I have Prince Hirtzenprinz, it is now over
the arbor, in it's second year. Beautiful clean foliage. I
think that last winter was a bit on the warm side, though
we did have some very cold & windy days, not sure if it was
a fair test. No dieback.
Nymphe Egeria is another of his that is now in my top 5.
It doesn't stop blooming, but, for me so far looks and
acts more like a shrub.
My Gem of the Prairies is too young to comment-it may be
a Gershwind rose but I forget the details.
I have been growing Blush Hip as a climber, no dieback,
easy to train-has a surprisingly (to me)long bloom
period.
Complicata as a climber for me has been very good, no
dieback, you need to really keep on top of it to train it.
It has a longer blooming period than my Veilchenblau and
others.
I have a big rambler that for years has been hardy to
the tips. No one really knows what it is. It does look
like Dorothy Perkins but the foliage seems wrong. Last
fall I cut quite a bit off but left it tied to the pole,
no dieback, here it is if interested. Reminds me of a
rose Jeri Jennings found and named 'peppermint'(i think)
that pole's about 8-9 feet high. Canes wrapped around it.
{{gwi:290060}}

Dan, what about Russellina, Aglaia, Goldfinch, Seagull,
Mrs. FW Flight, Amadis, & White Mountains?

alida

I tried to order a 'Patricia Macoun' from Brentwood Bay - they do/did allow U.S. orders, but it has to reach a certain minimum dollar amount first. My PM ended up being a mislabeled 'Banshee' instead, and though they said they'd get to the bottom of what happened, they never wrote back to me and then ignored all further emails. That was the primary reason I was trying to order from them in the first place. Very poor behavior, but there's nothing I can do about it. I seem to remember that it was listed as growing at the SJHRG, but unless a nursery gets ahold of it and propagates it from them, it's not exactly doing anyone any good there. Same for 'Aennchen von Tharau'. It seems wrong for hardy ramblers to be imprisoned in California like that, with no short-term hope of escape, if indeed any.

I'd love to get ahold of more Geschwind material. It's good to hear they're doing well in the northeast; eventually the center of the country will have to give them a good try, too.

I posted a nice photo of 'Annie of Tharau' (AKA 'Aenchen von Tharau') on HelpMeFind. It's available from Vintage. 'Nordlandrose' is supposed to be available from Rogue Valley R. I'll have to get HMF to make a listing for it & then post a photo. It's one of my favorites. Flat, semi-dbl/dbl large flowers, great fragrance, beautiful pink tinted lilac/mauve flowers. Listed as a hybrid multiflora & Bill Grant said it was "suitable for Zones 3 & 4". I'd post a photo here, but I've utterly forgotten how to do that. Thanks to Bill Grant & Heirloom Roses about ten yers ago, I was able to acquire both of these & I then donated them to Elizabeth Park (Z6a/5b) for public display. No dieback AT ALL, even in a severe winter.

Stefan: You may like to know that we've just ID'd an old plant of 'Patricia Macoun' at Elizabeth Park. It had been a mystery until a recent visit from some luminaries of the Heritage Rose Foundation. From the size of the trunk it could well date back to the original introduction (1945). The flwrs are nicely fragrant, open & flat, with very large, glossy blue-green foliage.

Alida: Yes, all of those you mention I suspect would be OK in Z5.

With my new last year the Northland Rose I did not trust it's hardiness so covered it with a pot and it had minor cane damage and is battling a huge batchelor button for dominance (5 foot high BP).

I am really ticked as my one labelled Geschwind, Himmelsauge
as it turned out to be an Austin to my eyes ... unless it starts out with a HT looking bud, white dominating pink and very cupped shape ... not according to HMF.

Seagull's a great rose, but I don't think it would lend itself to being a graceful, well-behaved rambler. Those canes want to sprawl laterally, and they are very stiff and armed with fat hooked prickles. If you get too close it hooks your pants, skin, dogs, and lawn mower. You wouldn't want to put it where people will congregate. It's got a wow factor in bloom, but it's dangerously armed.

Being of the multiflora heritage, the blooms are pretty but short-lived; the bloom period is much shorter than the Albas and Gallicas. If you're going to go with a once-bloomer you'd probably want something with longer-lasting blooms and perhaps a bit of fragrance. People say that Seagull is fragrant, but I can't pick up any scent at all. Yeah, it's hardy, vigorous, and disease free.

There's a gentleman locally who is trying to come up with a virus-free clone of New Dawn. I hope he has success because ND could have potential. It's one of those roses that are either a grand success or a miserable failure in zone 5. I suspect that most of the failures are virused. There are a few NDs from zone fivers that are stellar performers, but those are the exceptions and not the rule.

I'll email him and see if he'll respond to this thread. All his roses are no spray and organically grown.

I don't see 'Aennchen von Tharau' at Vintage under any spelling permutation. Are you sure about that?

She's in Vintage's print catalog...

Ahh... I wonder what that means for its availability. I just wrote them to ask what the deal is with this cultivar; I'll report back if I learn anything. Thanks for the tip!

All ramblers are descended from one of several species roses that have somewhat lax canes that have to be tied up into trees or on a trellis. Please note that some of these roses may not have that lax cane but are descended from it. My experience is mostly with wichurana ramblers though I have seen some large multiflora ramblers in areas south of mine. My favorite ramblers include 'Chevy Chase', 'New Dawn', 'Dr W Van Fleet', 'American Pillar'. I am growing some others including 'Albertine' (that I dont expect to survive), 'Alberic Barbier' and several others. So far they have all proven to be blackspot free and some are only slightly touched by mildew. American Pillar will die back to the snow line in really cold years but still flowers fantasticly for 6 to 8 weeks. When it dies back I put on my armor and go in to cut it back. A few year I left the dead canes and they were helpful to the rose as a trellising system. The new canes followed the old ones nicely and I didn't have to tie anything up.

I expect Albertine will survive for you. The question with the Barbier roses is how often they bloom. They are vigorous roses with lovely, flexible canes and very healthy foliage. They get zapped by most of our winters and don't bloom the next season. If you had Albertine last winter, I bet it would have bloomed this year.

After reading an article on the Barbier roses by Anne Belovich I became interested in them. I ordered Edmond Proust from
Vintage this spring, in bloom when I received it, though a
tiny plant.
Here it is today, you can see how healthy the foliage is.
{{gwi:290061}}
I think the blooms are beautiful-I notice there are new
buds on it again.
Here is a pic of the bloom from spring,
{{gwi:290062}}

Stefan,
Strangely enough, I was reading about "Aennchen von Tharau"
last night in the Vintage catalog. It is an alba, if it
is half as good as "Blush Hip" I am going to try to get it.
I hope the website has a picture for you, the picture in
their print catalog is beautiful.

Alida

Wow, great photo, Alida! I have this one & it always reminds me of a cherry-vanilla icecream cone (wink). It also repeats fairly well for me, though like all Barbiers, it can die back heavily in a severe winter. It did not survive at Elizabeth Park, for example.

BTW, 'Annie of Tharau' is actually an Alba X an Ayrshire, hence the rambling growth... And it looks like it: see my HMF photo (pardon my hand)...

How Alexander Girault do in zone 5 winter?

I have a rambunctious one new this year in a very large pot and if it behaves close to other wichurana in zone 5 it can go into the ground come fall (and covered), if not into the house.

Alexandre Girault bloomed once every n years, and n was way too high a number to keep the rose.

I have always considered Rosa Arvensis Ayrshire Splendens one of the most hardy ramblers. I have not seen frost damage to these roses even after some weeks were temps was below -15F.

But R. Helenae and some of its seedlings and hybrids are very hardy too: The most popular of these are this danish helenae hybrid called "lykkefund". Said to be a hybrid between R. helenae and Zephirine Drouhin. It is thornless, and some specimens here have reached more than 30 feet up in trees like this one in a park in Copenhagen:

{{gwi:290063}}

Another found Helenae seedling that is popular is R. helenae "Hybrida" it has more double flowers and the scent is very, very good:

{{gwi:290064}}

Both roses drenches gardens in their sweet honeylike scent and are very hardy.

I will send both Roses to Ashdown Roses this fall.

I went on over to Vintage to check out the sale. I was opening up Ramblers when I was smitten by Arcata Pink Globe. Vintage says it is also known as Moser House Shed Rose.
Anybody grow that one? There's a website about the Moser rose comparing it to Baltimore Belle, because they thought it was also a setigera cross. Lots of historical info, but here's the curiousity. Vintage describes the Arcata Pink Globe rose as highly scented, while the Moser website says its rose is mostly scentless.

I ordered Breeze Hill,Primevere and Flammentanz (not a Rambler) but supposedly a hardy climber). Only F survived winter here, it has brilliant red flowers. Not a repeater but may prove worthwhile as it is hardy in Sweden. All from Vintage. Was thinking of tryin BH and P again but maybe that would be futile. Has anybody tried them in z5a?

And taking notes on all those commented on here!

Cupshaped.....keep posting those pics for those of us in colder zones!

Lovely!

That picture of lykkefund is mighty impressive. I wonder what it would make of our considerably colder winters.

I can assure everyone that 'Ayrshire Splendens' isn't hardy in Minnesota, even in those winters with temperatures warmer than -20 degrees Fahrenheit. It always killed back to the snow, and rarely bloomed after. It didn't help being so incredibly prone to blackspot. I don't believe my plant is even alive any more, since I relegated it to a spot with terrible soil after realizing it was of zero worth to me, but I would have to check.

I grow 'Flammentanz' too, and it has been fully hardy in zone 4. Unfortuntately it bloomed very well after its first winter, and only had one flower this spring, in spite of its greater size. I can't figure it out.

I rather doubt that Rosa helenae is hardy enough to compensate for the genetic influence of 'Zephirine Drouhin' and result in a fully zone-5-hardy rambler; zone 6 or, at best, a coastal zone 5 would be my guess. At least, the form of R. helenae I've grown in zone 4 has never managed to survive a winter (including zone 5 winters) with so much as a foot of live wood, and has never bloomed. I'm guessing that whatever else is in the background of 'Hybrida' is what lends it the extra hardiness, and that's why I'm so excited to see it come to our shores. Thank you, Cupshaped!

Gregg at Vintage replied to my email, saying that there were roughly 500 (!) roses they couldn't get onto their web site due to technical difficulties, but that they are expecting that to finally happen within the next 10 days. It'll be like a whole new catalog!

Stefan

Dan, I saw your picture, I think it is a rose I need.
Damn. Thanks a lot. LOL!
I wonder if I saw "Patricia Macoun" at EP last year?
I remember seeing "Roserie", nice big plant.
Alida

I also think Lykkefund will be hardy to zone 5, def. not lower. Interesting about Splendens though, our different experiences with that that rose ... I would think it would be be hardy to zone 4. But Stefan has different experiences.

Flammentanz should be hardy to zone 4 it probably is the most hardy red climber. Seems like many agree on that!

Flammentanz --- (Flame Dance):

{{gwi:290065}}

{{gwi:290066}}

I am really enjoying this post---I love the old ramblers----Kaylah---I love the story you posted----so very interesting.

What a wonderful history these roses have-----

Thanks for making an enjoyable post.

Florence

Our winter here near Pgh was terrible; we went from an extended early warm spell that made everything break dormancy, to several weeks of bitter weather with up to -15 wind chills.

Veilchenblau came through with minor losses. Alberic Barbier froze to the ground, losing the 15' long canes I grew out all last year. *sob*
Silver Moon also survived but did have a bit of cane loss.
As far as Complicata goes, a MG friend of mine has an enormous Jabba the Hut size bush and she does nothing at all to it.
Want hardy? How about a rose that can survive the aforementioned winter outside in a pot? - Constance Spry. Not a rambler, but certainly a big grower that can be used as a climber.

I was looking on this thread to get info on hardiness of Albertine. Sounds like it might be cane hardy for me in z 5b if sited carefully.

By the way, I saw a few comments above on Viking Queen. In my old z5b garden (Ann Arbor, MI), it was reliably cane hardy in most years, and only showed mild dieback in others (and not necessarily the coldest either). Its disadvantage for me was that in our sometimes hot humid June weather its flowers balled badly. However, in the cooler weather of fall, it absolutely excelled in bloom. While the number of flowers at any time was smaller than in June, it commonly produced a decent display all the way from late August into late December. I personally think it is a great hardy climber for places with cool summers. In cooloer summers we had, it was an outstanding performer and one of my best climbers.

Thought I would resurrect this good older thread.

Does anyone have any experience with the hardiness of seven sisters and red seven sisters? (looking to order from chamblees own root)

Zone 5 here.

Thanks.

And BTW, any white ramblers for zone 5?

Baltimore Belle

Not long ago I listened to a Rose Chat podcast on ramblers, with Leon Ginenthal. (He runs Der Rosenmeister nursery, which specializes in cold-hardy ramblers, but unfortunately doesn't ship -- so you have to go to Ithaca NY.) I seem to recall 'White Mountains' is one of his favorites. It's worth a listen: https://rosechat.podbean.com/e/roses-that-ramble/