I mentioned proliferation in your previous post. That's what the buds are doing. Usually happens here with the first blooms in the spring on some varieties. I don't know Peter Mayle, so I don't know if it is a regular thing with that variety. Others have said that it is caused by too much nitrogen, that is not confirmed. Doesn't have anything to do with the sepals. My plants that do this grow out of it with later blooms. I just snap them off.

Thank you for answering, Diane. It seems that you were right, and I should have snapped them off. I suppose this is not my fault is it? It seems an awful lot of proliferation for this one little plant (I do want SOME normal blooms), I am wondering if it surfaces under certain conditions? Too stressed? Or is it purely genetic and everyone's PM does that? Does it happen mostly in spring or mostly with immaturity?

Thanks,
Masha

Oh, I have many roses whose buds are flat-topped and don't look good as they start to open.
Give 'em time. They may open prettier than they look now.

But look, to help 'em along, try taking off the outermost guard petals.
Those are sometimes stiffened by weather conditions, and interfere with opening of the bloom.

As far as the sepals themselves -- I really really love those elaborate decorative sepals.

Jeri

Jeri, I love your encouragement, thank you. You really think these are normal looking blooms? I must have had too much to drink tonight... Perhaps I should post another update when those buds open instead of snapping them off:-)

Masha

I'm with Jeri! I like the fancy sepals!

The buds on my The Prince always look like that. At first I was like "Something ate the top of the bud off, it won't look right at all!" then a couple of days later, when the bud fully opens, it looks just fine.

Eric

I don't grow Peter M, so I don't know how these buds will open. Someone here should know if it's normal.

It looks like the condition called "bullhead" or "bullnose," which affects some varieties when young buds develop during chilly weather. When these appear on my 'Aloha,' I snap them off. If the variety were new to me, I would wait and see.

Look Here -- to give you an idea, here is a bud of Old Town Novato, just beginning to open. See the big decorative sepals?
(That's one of the things I love about it!)
There are little black dots -- those are glandular structures. The resolution may not be high enough for you to see delicate cilia. All this stuff going on, so it's interesting the whole time.

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Now, your Peter Mayle -- I haven't grown it, to begin with, but it LOOKS to me like the bloom can open fairly flat, and maybe sometimes do a double center. If so, these flat buds would make sense.
But they do look pretty dark!
I think they may not be at all typical, but perhaps just early blooms from a new rose.

:-)

Jeri

Thank you, Jeri. Your bud looks normal to me even if it is not pointy, but PM's do not. I don't have any experience with old roses, but whenever I see sepals that look almost like leaves on my modern roses, I know the buds won't open well.

Thank you, Michael. It definitely hasn't been too hot here. I have had blooms like that occasionally on a few roses, but never so many at one time on one plant. I guess you are saying there is nothing I can do about it, so that's good to know.

Thank you all for your help.

Masha

Here is what I have been trying to say. I found one (ONE!) bud on my PM which looks normal to me and should open well. The second picture is of a bud which I think is deformed. Compare the sepals and you will see it is easy to tell even at the tightly closed bud stage it won't be pretty.

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Masha

I was looking at the Preview Message page and found another bud on lower right of the second picture which also looks all right. That makes it TWO perfect buds!

This is a new rose, right? I doubt these buds will be typical of what you will see from a mature plant.

But believe me, MANY roses have sepals like this, and they open quite normally.
There's nothing wrong with it at all, and many of us find them particularly attractive.
I do!

OTOH, looking at photos of P.M., I really do wonder about the color of these buds. And maybe the form of them, by comparison to what seems to be typical. I'm going to be very curious to see what they open like.

As someone said, these look a lot more like buds of 'The Prince.'
I rather wonder if this IS 'Peter Mayle.' We'll see!

Jeri

Thank you, Jeri. Your Old Town Novato is very beautiful. I would love sepals like that on my roses!

Masha

If I were you, I'd wait to see one or two of those flat buds open. If they're weird, I think I'd just snap the rest of them off and let the plant do some growing.

That "normal" bud you posted does look like it could open into a Peter Mayle -- but I admit to a lot of curiosity about the flat ones.

JEri

Thank you for your support, Jeri. It is always nice to talk to you:-). I will post a picture when (if?) they open.

Masha

According to Compendium of Rose Diseases, the weather that caused bullheads may have been around three weeks ago.

I have buds like that, too. I have just been waiting it out, but it definitely cannot be normal. Not just the form, but also the dark colors on them, and it has happened on a lot of the bushes. To me, they just look stressed, but who knows why. Reading on here will sooner or later answer questions I haven't even gotten around to making :)

I had a bunch of those bullheads in May. We had extremely cool (for us) weather in April, it was down to 38 one night, and this was while the buds were forming. I think if the temps go below 50, there can be deformities in the buds. I normally see this on the Prince and Falstaff, but this year I had it on almost all of my roses and it was very disheartening. Many didn't open at all or were stunted. But once the weather warmed up, I had nice normal buds/blooms.

Here are some pics of mine:

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Thank you, Michael. Your answers are always very informative. I guess I am left with wondering why that ONE rose. I haven't noticed any deformities on my other 60+ roses.

Buford, thank you, and YUCK! It is good to know I am not alone, you made me feel a lot better.:-)

Masha

Masha, I ended up with a bunch of bullheads on my Rose de Rescht but not on any of my other roses, even the moderns. The RdR WAS very stressed this winter though, with lots of dieback. I wonder of it is the combination of new-plant stress and weather conditions.
As for fancy sepals, I can not WAIT for my Chapeau de Napoleon to start blooming!!! I am getting new greowth now on a newly planted bareroot. Go, go, go!

Masha, it is only a problem with certain varieties in certain weathers. If a plant does this fairly often in your climate, you would probably SP it.

Greenhaven, I love the look of Chapeau de Napoleon too. In fact I like the look of buds even more than that of the blooms!

Michael, thank you again, and ouch! I don't want to think about SP'ing an expensive rose I just bought...

Masha

"In fact I like the look of buds even more than that of the blooms!"

Ha ha, me too! I am not really keen on once bloomers, either, but this year a bought more than one. We have high Jap. Beetle pressure, though, so at least I won't be stressing about the bettles eating my blooms.

Greenhaven, when it is as bad as that it means you are a true rose collector. I would love to see your garden.

Masha

I dunno...everything is pretty much a mess right now. I unexpectedly and rather suddenly started back to school in the Fall of 2008, leaving several things undone and yet-to-be-accomplished. I am only just now starting to catch up again, never mind planning future projects and needs. Like I said, too, I am pretty new to roses, and most of mine are rather young. I have a couple issues with a border out front, though, design-wise. I am hoping to get some photos and post them for some advice and input soon.

This weird bud/bloom stuff happens occasionally on certain susceptible rose varieties. I think it's mostly weather-dependent, with perhaps some help from thrips. It definitely goes away.

Susan